More "tall tales" from the Godfreyite camp
By Jim
This is a new twist.
According to this morning's Salt Lake Tribune article by Kristen Moulton, there are 2000 absentee ballots and 700 provisional ballots out now.
The provisional ballots are to be counted starting today.
The absentee ballots will not be counted until later, to allow mailed ballots to arrive.
Godfrey is now taking responsibility for "five or six" challenges to voters. His Dorothy Littrell and Jesse Garcia obsession continues unabated.
He claims no knowledge of the other 140-odd voters who were challenged by his renegade supporters over whom he has no apparent control. Lots of freethinkers over in the Godfrey camp, I suppose.
(Note to the meaning-impaired who have recently occupied this forum: when I say, "140-odd", I mean "about 140 and I can't be bothered to look the exact number up or calculate it". I don't mean "these people are odd". Many are my friends and neighbors who are trying to figure out how they ended up on a Nixonesque "enemies list".)
This morning's Standard-Examiner also contains two articles on the election.
This Charles Trentelman piece includes the first extensive interview with Blake "She'll never believe that, dude" Fowers, who explains some of his motivation behind the challenged voter list.
Apparently, Mr. Fowers' keen powers and Spidey-Sense have picked up a lot of fraudulent voter names, and he was just doing his duty as a citizen when he submitted those names to election officials. No political dirty tricks, no sir. Not retaliatory tactics. It's the same community spirit we see in those who are willing to follow police officers' wives and run down license numbers, and go tackle Evil Bicycle Thieves,
I have a suggestion. If the Godfrey campaign really believes that voter fraud was taking place, then they should have been satisfied with the relief they received, which was the checking of identification at the polls. Presumably, everyone who voted on a provisional ballot was allowed to do so only after they produced the required forms of identification. So, that process should have satisfied their civic-minded intent.
So I'm certain, since I believe that the Godfrey campaign's Mr. Fowers is only interested in the integrity of the process, I'm absolutely certain that there will be no further challenges to those provisional ballots and all ballots will be counted as-is without additional legal challenges.
After all, if attorneys under Mr. Godfrey's employ are challenging the provenance of provisional ballots at this point, it will be hard to support Mr. Godfrey's claim that he had nothing to do with the 147-name challenge list or with Mr. Fowers.
If, on the other hand, Godfrey-paid attorneys continue their obstructionist tactics, then it only reveals the true intent: to gum up the electoral works and pervert the intent of the voters of Ogden.
I mentioned a second Std-Ex election article, and here it is. It's similar to Kristen's, but with different numbers. What ought to be apparent... nobody seems to really know how many ballots remain uncounted.
By the way, I hope some of our recent visitors continue to hang around the blog. I have enjoyed posting my views and having them met with ad hominem venomous attacks. As Yogi Berra might have said, if he spoke Latin, "it's res ipsa loquitur all over again". I enjoy hearing opposing views and letting the quality of thought in them speak for itself.
Update 11/9/07 11:10 a.m MT: Kristen Moulton has a story up in the Salt Lake Tribune on election complaints being filed with Weber County and with the County attorney's office.
Update 11/9/07 9:24 a.m. MT: From this morning's SLTrib - "Gloria Berrett, county elections administrator, said Friday afternoon that she and County Clerk Alan McEwan, have decided to seek legal advice concerning the ballots. She declined to say why advice is being sought. However, election workers plan to continue working through today and on Monday, a legal holiday, to scrutinize provisional and absentee ballot envelopes. They want to ensure that only those verified as legitimate will be counted."
We just got off the phone with Gloria Berret, in connection with the above SLTrib article update. Ms. Berret informs us that the verification process mentioned in Kristen's article involves authenticating voter signatures only. This has proven to be a tedious process, due to the large number of provisionals.
Ms. Berret also informs us that election officials have not sought additional legal advice, beyond initial consultations with the Weber County Attorney's office earlier this week.
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216 comments:
1 – 200 of 216 Newer› Newest»For those who want to understand what's now happening at the county clerk's office, here's the relevant section from the Utah election code:
20A-4-107. Review and disposition of provisional ballot envelopes.
(1) As used in this section, a voter is "legally entitled to vote" if:
(a) the voter:
(i) is registered to vote in the state;
(ii) resides within the voting precinct where the voter seeks to vote; and
(iii) provided valid voter identification to the poll worker as indicated by a notation in the official register;
(b) the voter:
(i) is registered to vote in the state; and
(ii) did not vote in the voter's precinct of residence, but the ballot that the voter voted is identical to the ballot voted in the voter's precinct of residence; or
(c) the voter:
(i) is registered to vote in the state;
(ii) the poll worker recorded in the official register that the voter either failed to provide valid voter identification or the documents provided as valid voter identification were inadequate; and
(iii) the county clerk verifies the voter's identity and residence through some other means.
(2) (a) Upon receipt of provisional ballot envelopes, the election officer shall review the affirmation on the face of each provisional ballot envelope and determine if the person signing the affirmation is a registered voter and legally entitled to vote the ballot that the voter voted.
(b) If the election officer determines that the person is not a registered voter or is not legally entitled to vote the ballot that the voter voted, the election officer shall retain the ballot envelope, unopened, for the period specified in Section 20A-4-202 unless ordered by a court to produce or count it.
(c) If the election officer determines that the person is a registered voter and is legally entitled to vote the ballot that the voter voted, the election officer shall remove the ballot from the provisional ballot envelope and place the ballot with the absentee ballots to be counted with those ballots at the canvass.
(d) The election officer may not count, or allow to be counted a provisional ballot unless the voter's identity and residence is established by a preponderance of the evidence.
From Mr. Trentelman's front page story, these two sentences appear back to back:
"Fowers is not employed by Godfrey's campaign. He worked as a poll watcher for Godfrey on Tuesday...."
Uh huh. Not a Godfrey campaign worker. Only worked as a Godfrey campaign poll watcher.
Time methinks to invoke the duck test: If it waddles like a duck, quacks like a duck, and has feathers... odds are, it's a duck.
If Godfrey had run an honest and above board campaign then he would not have had to resort to challenges both before and after the election. To my knowledge Van Hooser has not tried any of these tactics. To my knowledge she did not have Gieger or Godfrey's brother hovering over election officials at the polling places. I know, the mayor had no knowledge of this behavior and did not condone it.
B. S.
ANYONE who works for the city knows that he has his hands in EVERYTHING to keep control. He is such a control freak that he certainly would have known.
The way I see it is that in the end IF he wins the election it is going to be by such a narrow margin. What does this mean? That he does not have the faith of the city behind him and his ideas of grandeur. If he was a true visionary for the city with the greatest ideas to take Ogden to great new heights then the citizens would have voted for him ten fold. His margin of victory would have been such that the provisional/absentee ballots would not matter in the slightest. This obviously is not the case. He is running scared and will use every tactic within his grasp to win this election.
Mr Mayor, take a clue. You have not given the citizens of Ogden anything to look forward to. You tried for 8 years and did not convince them. Bow out!!!
Thanks, Dan.
"...c) If the election officer determines that the person is a registered voter and is legally entitled to vote the ballot that the voter voted, the election officer shall remove the ballot from the provisional ballot envelope and place the ballot with the absentee ballots to be counted with those ballots at the canvass.
(d) The election officer may not count, or allow to be counted a provisional ballot unless the voter's identity and residence is established by a preponderance of the evidence."
This language states that precinct judges are vested in the authority to make the factual determination of whether a voter is qualified to vote. This properly occurs at the precinct level, where election judges are best equipped to determine who is eligible to vote. Notably this statutory language sets forth a "preponderance of evidence" standard, meaning more likely than not."
It seems to us that counting room challenges would be improper except in extreme cases, inasmuch as the fact determination authority resides at the precinct level.
Just as appellate courts will not ordinarily upset trial courts' factual determinations, County election officials ought not upset election judges' decisions after the fact, it seems to us.
We're wondering what standard would be met to upset an election judge's decision, if additional challenges are lodged in the counting rooms?
We don't have time to research this right now. Perhaps one of our gentle readers can help us out with this.
GOP State House candidate attempts vote suppression through illegal party-based (anti-Democrat) challenges of 1496 voters that turn out to be baseless/false
While browsing throught the state election code, I just came across this:
It is unlawful for any employer, corporation, association, company, firm, or person to: . . . exhibit . . . threats, express or implied, intended or calculated to influence the political opinions or actions of employees.
If you read the whole thing you'll see that the grammar is faulty, so the exact meaning isn't completely clear. The provision is obviously intended mainly to prohibit written threats. I can't tell whether it might also be applicable to orally delivered threats.
From the SE story by Trentelman, who called the Secretary of State's office for an opinion on what the law requires when a voter is challenged. [Hope he's not in trouble with his bosses for actually checking facts first before writing an election related story.] Here's what he found out:
Joe Demma, a clerk in the Lieutenant Governor’s office, confirmed that challenges can be filed by anyone, against anyone, but said Berrett was mistaken on one point.
If a challenged voter can show their current address matches what the voter record shows, he said they do not need to fill out a provisional ballot.
“If you produce ID that matches your voter record, you’re golden. You can vote normally,” he said.
So part of the mess may be that Ogden poll workers were not properly trained to do their jobs. That they did not know [one option] or were instructed to ignore [another option] that if a challenged voter produces ID showing he's a resident of the precinct involved, he's good to go, good to vote in the normal way, and does not have to file a provisional ballot. [That, by the way, is what the Standard Examiner said in its election day editorial I think, which advised voters to bring ID to the polls in case they were challenged.]
It seems, then, that anyone who was on the challenge list who produced proper ID should have, under the existing laws, been allowed to vote right then and there. It seems, then, if the SOS office staffer is right, we have a case of political skullduggery on the part of the Godfrey campaign [the great number of challenges] compounded by botched poll worker training [at least.]
As the great philosopher Casey Stengal once said, "Can't anybody here play this game?" It's just downright embarrassing.
I am delighted that the Lt. Governor's office issued the statement that voter I.D. cards make a voter's right to vote "golden".
I had my voter I.D. card in hand the first of the 3 tries I made on Tuesday to vote.
Now I am concerned that when my provisional ballot is checked that someone will find or charge that the poll worker made an error in filling out the envelope or some other reason to disqualify it.
For the record my provisional ballot number is 3303 and the number to call to see if it s counted is 1-800-995-8683.
I would like for you to help me make sure that it gets counted.
I talked to Mike Moyal last night and his vote was challenged so he filled out a provisional ballot as well. You are well aware of his long time fight with Ogden City.
The only reason for this Challenge list was to try to get citizens opposed to Godfrey's re-election from being able to cast their vote.
What more proof is needed of the obstructionist attitude of the Godfrey camp?
After being challenged, I showed my drivers license with the address matching the address listed in the voter registration book. According to Mr. Demma I should have been allowed to vote normally. Instead I was told I needed to return with additional proof of residency and was forced to vote provisionally.
Also the clerk's office stating to Mr. Trentelman that the second challengers name was not recorded is not true, except perhaps in a legal recording sense. Her name, Jeni Terry was on the list at the poll as challenger That list must of come from the clerks office. The clerk's office also provided me with her name on election day. I had the thought that I should have photographed the list of challenged names at the poll, but I thought that I was being paranoid. If only I had done so now.
When challenged, I was asked to fill out a slip of paper with my name address, etc. On that slip of paper was a blank for "Challenged by". I'm assuming at some poll somewhere that her name will appear among the stacks of slips filled out. If anyone was challenge by her I would like to know.
I wonder why her name is being protected. Perhaps will find out.
After reading todays article quoting Fowers as saying the Provisional voters didn't look trustworth, who is he to judge. Trying to intimidate voters or make it harder to legally vote sounds like the south in the 60's. I had no trouble voting at Wasatch school, but next election I will be asking everyone in the room if they are observers or election judges and I will be taking names. I assumed I voted without interference and now I question who was listening to me when I voted. A little paronoid in my basic rights you bet. On another note the SE letter writer today asked where Ogden's basic services went and why the city is looking a little trashed. It went away with the spring clean-up canceled by the mayor including the fall leaf pick up. It does costs cities to provide for their citizens, and not always turn a profit. As for the new administaration these programs should be brought back to improve the city and encourage our neighbors to take pride in the city. Maybe a scaled down version of the old street festival would also bring all sides together. We are not Provo....
After speaking with the clerk's office I learned that it would be after the 20th of the month before I can find out if my provisional ballet counted. I was not given any tracking number at the poll, so I assume I will need to provide my name.
I have served as an election judge for a number of years and have each year taken the required training. It is NOT the election judge's place to require all the ID that was required this year. One form of ID with a current address or a voter registration card is all that is required! THE ELECTION JUDGE IS OBLIGATED TO PROVIDE THE VOTER WITH A PROVISIONAL BALLOT WHEN ONE OR BOTH OF THE ABOVE MENTIONED IDs are provided. Many were turned away with the statement "You've been challenged and you can't vote." They weren't told that they could vote on a provisional ballot.
What happened this year at the polls is HARRASSMENT AND INTIMIDATION!! There are voters who were challenged that did not take or have the time to repeatedly return to the polls in order to vote. THE ELECTION IN OGDEN THIS YEAR IS TAINTED!! ELECTIONEERING BY THE GODFREY CAMPAIGN CAMP OCCURRED AT MORE THAN ONE VOTING PLACE! THIS ELECTION SHOULD BE CHALLENGED AND CONDUCTED OVER WITH TIGHTER CONTROL FROM THE WEBER COUNTY CLERK'S OFFICE!!
We all know that Godfrey cannot stand to lose at anything! He will go to any length and cost to get his way, so we should have expected and been prepared for something like this. There are many residents who are up in arms over this latest tactic by Godfrey's campaign camp (basically Godfrey) and there will be investigations conducted. Hard evidence has been collected to verify the accusations. Ms. Van Hooser may win by default if not by votes.
I have met Blake Fowers when he was out trying to place a LiftOgden sign in everyone's yard about 18 months ago. He IS an avid supporter of Godfrey's and thinks that the Mayor can walk on water. He is a fanatical backer of Godfrey and so I question that he only wanted to make sure we had a legal election. Blake along with the Godfrey campaign camp made it a bogus election because of their intimidation, harrassment and electioneering. This is not a false statement -- we have the proof -- we have the pictures!
My wife voted at Polk Elementary and her name was on the challenge list due to the fact that we moved, even though the move was less than 2 blocks and we were still in the same voting precinct. My theory of why she got challenged and I did not is that her name is on Smart Growth Ogden’s website and mine is not, even though I am a supporter. Anyway, she voted at about 6:30 and she noticed after she was done filling out her provisional ballot that the election worker had given her a pencil even though that ballot specified that it MUST BE FILLED OUT IN BLACK PEN. She asked for a black pen so that she could fill out another ballot so that her vote would not be thrown out due to a technicality. The election worker stated that he had given a pencil to everyone who had filled out a provisional vote that day. My wife told me that she looked up at the person that had challenged her and they were smiling, which infuriated my wife.
Does anyone know if this is enough to get a vote thrown out?
Scott-
At our polling place the poll worker, who is to be commended, was very specific in providing us with a black pen. He was obviously quite embarrassed and dismayed over the challenged list and was trying to do all he could to assist us. I think he know exactly how fragile the provisional ballot is. He was the only bright spot in the entire process.
Does anybody have an accurate number of exactly how many provisional and absentee ballots are yet to be counted. A lot of numbers have been thrown out by a variety of media sources. If it is not known, then why not say so? I've heard as little as 800 total to as many as 2500 total. BTW, thank you Godfrey and Pals for hijacking my town, you're a bunch of peaches.
Rudi, you stud, are you working on getting the obstructionist list of names to post on this site? Also, does anybody know if this list(s?) was submitted and in effect prior to Tuesday? I'm curious if early voters were succomb to this crap as well.
Mayors Geiger may have stepped on their own Viagra-induced gondolas again with this clearly calculated and nefarious, and possibly illegal, tactic that Gondola Freak Blake "Dude" Fowers -- and why is his "gut" the diviner of who is apt to commit voter fraud --perpetrated with the express permission and instruction of his hero, Lying Little Matty Gondola Godfrey. I overheard a member of Wayne Peterson's famed Squirrel Patrol fretting over the provisional and absentee ballots. Given the statements from the lieutenant governor's office that the provisional voting was not handled correctly, what recourse would an affected voter have? The procedures Tuesday were apparently fraught with miscues and mistakes, which is the exact end result Lying Little Matty Gondola Godfrey intended. Ahh, yes, the "precious character of this young man" indeed. This brings a tangenital reminder of Palm Beach County, Florida, a cove of predominantly retired Jewish folks who overwhelmingly cast their votes in favor of known bigot and right-wing whackjob Pat Buchannan. I even had a Tshirt: "Jews for Buchannan. Palm Beach County Branch."
I would call Weber County Clerk 399-8400 and ask if pencil is a technicality to void my vote, and then take it higher. If the election worker knowingly gave you a pencil rather than a black pen that would be a criminal act.
These voting issues have again made Ogden look like a back water city.
Check out this site. http://itpolicy.princeton.edu/voting/.
Concidering all the lying little matty camp and spouses working the polling locations, this is chilling.
I know two Godfrey supporters who were on the list as well. Not that it matters.
Just some FYI about a Weber County Clerk's Office election bunder. A postcard mailer was sent to many voters in Roy, and possibly other parts of the county, telling them they no longer voted at their previous polling location and were directed to another. Many waited in lines and when they got to the judges tables, and their names could not be found, were told that the postcards were sent out in error and were sent back to their original polling location. The postcard was received by voters several days prior to election day, but no effort was made to notify them to disregard the new instructions. One election worker, when asked why phone calls weren't made to notify voters of the mistake, said "Call that many people?" and chuckled. Government efficiency at it's best.
Scott-
Your wife should send either an e-mail or hard copy letter to the Lt. Governor's office telling of her voting experience.
I called them yesterday and was told to do that. I don't think my e-mail went through so I am sending a hard copy by postal mail.
They have had numerous complaints and their committee is reviewing what we send to them.
Ot try both. The Comment line is on the top right of the Lt. Governor's website at www.utah.governor/contact.html
Good luck.
How did the poll challengers get the addresses?
“I see all the provisionals coming in and I don’t think these people look trustworthy. That’s just my gut.”
What's his address? I'd like to deliver him some Pepto Bismol for his gut.
“I see all the provisionals coming in and I don’t think these people look trustworthy. That’s just my gut.”
This is classic Godfreyite think if I ever saw it! Pretty chilling to think the main Cahuna of this evil mentality is actually an elected official!
If Godfrey does squeak by and win this race, he will take it as a total mandate and Cady Bar the door, there will be no stopping his and his sycophants from completing their rape of Emerald City.
Perhaps in that Orwellian world of their's, this moron Flowers will be in charge of their "Worthies list" which he will govern by his "gut feelings".
It is rather bizzar to think that these low lifes really think like they do and accept these values as their natural right.
damned:
I'll volunteer to hand-deliver the Pepto. Blake "McCarthy" Geiger happens to be my new neighbor. I can't wait for the block party.
Anybody know the name of Godfrey's campaign consultant? I'm wondering if they have an record of sleazy campaigning.
Beaver:
Great reference.
"I have here a list of 146 known fraudulent voters that my gut tells me are liars!" -- Blake Fowers
vs.
"I have here a list of 47 [or 205, or 257, it changed] known Communists in the State Department!" -- "Tailgunner" Joe McCarthy
See the film version.
Southsider:
According to this article, it's Jason Powers of Guidant Strategies.
He/they ran the campaign of "Gentleman John" Swallow in 2002 and Wayne Niederhauser in 2006.
the list of names is on the Standard's website.
About the pencil instead of pen matter: That may very disqualify a ballot. The reason for it is clear: you want votes made in something indelible so they cannot be subsequently changed by someone else. [And evidence of an alteration of anything on the actual ballot is grounds for disallowing it.]
One of the reasons to challenge a large number of voters is that a provisional ballot requires much paper work to be properly cast, by both the poll worker and the voter. First the application for provisional ballot must be filled out by the voter, then the grey shaded areas on that form [listing voter number, precinct, etc] must be filled out by the poll worker; then the voter has to fill out the ballot exactly in accord with the instructions on it [pen/pencil etc]. Statistically, it is a nearly absolute certainty that a certain percentage of provisional ballots will be disallowed because the paper work has not been done properly, or the proper rules have not been followed, by either the poll worker, the voter, or both.
Add in those who never return to the polls with more ID having been refused the first time, and you can see how large numbers of challenges [from a cherry-picked list fat with a party or candidate's opponents but thin with his supporters] all but guarantees suppressing some votes for the opposition.
Godfrey-associated poll workers [which it now seems some are alleging] including working as provisional vote person at a polling place, giving instructions that may guarantee the disallowing of the provisional ballot adds yet another dimension.
All allegations so far, but they're beginning to pile up. Regardless of how the final tally comes out, seems to me the state's SOS or AG needs to look into how Ogden's evidently muffed election was conducted. And why. No matter who wins. Or seems to.
If you feel you or your friends were denied your vote contact the ACLU of Utah since their lawyers may have good legal advice.
(801) 521-9862
http://www.acluutah.org
about 500 years ago I wrote an advice book for princes. one of things I wrote was "a ruler need not have positive qualities but he must seem to have them. ... So you should seem to be compassionate, trustworthy, sympathetic, honest, religious; but at the same time you should be constantly prepared, so that, if these become liabilities, you are trained and ready to become their opposites ... A ruler cannot conform to all those rules that men who are thought good are expected to respect, for he is often obliged, in order to hold onto power, to break his word, to be uncharitable, inhumane, and irreligious." Looks like someone in the city of Ogden, Utah has learned well from me.
I just got off the phone with the Weber County Recorders Office and they told me that they have had a large number of complaints that they were give pencils to fill in their provisional ballots. The county employee said that they were instructed to trace the ballots with black pen so that they will not be rejected. However, she also said that several godfrey lawyers are present trying to poke holes it each and every provisional ballot.
How can the lawyers be present during the vote counting? They should be out of the room until all counting is complete. They should not be in there "influencing" anything. This seems like interference of the election process. Right?
Lying Little Matty Gondola Godfrey has lawyers at the ready, heeding their dark (but very small, except in re: forehead) master's call to challenge provisional ballots. Yet the lying, gondola-loving dynamo had no idea that such a vast number would surface! And he did not position his freakish brother and the onion-reeking Geigers as poll watchers, challenge lists at the ready. His disorder is rather remarkable.
THE SKI IS FOREBODINGLY STARK
Waterboy:
Generally, observers/lawyers from both sides in partisan elections are present, or can be, to make sure the counting is not "fixed" by one side or the other. That's the theory anyway. With one party usually in control of county or city or state government, having the provisional votes opened and "judged" behind closed doors by members of, appointees of, one party is absolutely guaranteed to create suspicion. I don't know if the same provisions apply in Utah to non-partisan elections, but I presume they do. If so, the Van Hooser side would be permitted observer/lawyer in the room to watch the opening and evaluation of the provisional votes as well. I hope they are there.
Yeah, both sides have the same rights as far as poll watchers and lawyers are concerned. The problem is that one side has 3 or 4 times as much money as the other. So one side had the resources to do a pre-election canvass and produce a lengthy list of voters and their political leanings. This then could have been used to target voters for challenges and otherwise try to influence who ended up casting valid ballots and who didn't. And that side had its lawyer ready as soon as it appeared further disputes might arise, whereas the other side had to scramble to find someone who knew enough about election laws to be an effective advocate. In a partisan race the parties themselves may have provided some of these resources, but in a nonpartisan race there's no built-in support system when problems like this arise.
I was feeling a bit depressed the other day, so I called Lifeline.
I was put through to a call center outsourced in Pakistan.
I explained that I was feeling suicidal.
They were very excited at this news and wanted to know if I could drive a truck or fly an airplane...
Just to quell our readers' anxiety and speculation, we were informed by someone we deem to be a reliable source late this morning that, although attornies and other authorized representatives of the various campaigns have been allowed to be present during the Weber County Election Department's verification and counting of the provisional ballots, challenges to those ballots will NOT be entertained by the Weber County Clerk's Office.
Further, we are informed that Weber County elections officials are fully aware of the pencilling in of votes on some provisional ballots, and that measures have been adopted to ensure that such ballots are counted, consistent with each voter's expressed intent.
The above procedures were reportedly adopted after consultation with the Weber County Attorney's Office, which evidently shares our opinion, stated in our previous 8:23 a.m. comment, that the fact-finding function of the local precinct judges who issued the ballots cannot be lawfully disturbed in the counting room.
We have attempted over the course of the past afternoon to confirm this information with Elections Superviser Gloria Berret and County Clerk Alan McEwan. Unfortunately neither of these officials has hoever returned our calls so far.
That's it for now. Hopefully we'll have more later.
rudi,
Thanks for the update. Good to hear that the Godfrey campaign will have no further opportunity to challenge ballots--but still disturbing that they apparently wanted to do so.
I'm not surprised that Berret and McEwan aren't returning calls. If they spend all their time talking to the press, they'll never get the ballots counted!
That's right, Dan. I'll definitely cut them a pass this afternoon for that.
They're no doubt down in the counting room, looking at the equivalent of hanging chads ;-)
I knew a Chad once who was quite hung.
It must just drive shorty totally nuts to have Gloria Berrett in charge of the count and have his attorney's hands tied. They are tied aren't they? and what about his feet? There is after all nothing about this guy, including body parts, that can be trusted.
Rudi:
Thanks again for bird dogging this for us all.
MAYOR PUTS DEMOCRACY IN HEADLOCK!
viktor, that was a good funny. I'm gonna recycle...
I've been an election judge many times. We are trained very well. However, some of the judges don't seem to catch on too well. One is given a provisional ballot without argument! A poll watcher may sit QUIETLY without talking to the judges or voters and no one speaks with the poll watcher. The poll watcher does not have a list of names of voters...as I understand Cami Geiger did, and then tear off the names of those who hadn't voted...so they could be called to come in.
Now, I'm not on the mayor's mailing list, I'm on that other list, that starts with S...
so I didn't get any of his mailers.
However, friends did. One family rec'd what looked like a ballot that stated that the recipient could mail this in and VOTE FOR GODFREY!!! Also, two of this family's sons received the ballot, and they have not lived at home for 16 years...married and out of state.
The day of the election, my friend said, "the Godfrey campaign called and wanted to talk to .... and .....and see why they haven't voted yet". My friend replied, "They haven't lived here for years and years!".
Then she commented to me..."do you think I could have mailed those ballots in, from the 3 of us, and then gone to the polls to vote again?" Interesting question, eh?
Also, if her sons HAD been home visiting, could they have marched in and voted?
I called the Lt Gov's office today. Here is what I was told to do: And this is for each of you who have personal knowledge or esperience to do also..
go to: utah.gov/ltgovernor and then to the email comments section.
They WANT to hear from us.
My personal thot is that the Lt Gov's office needs to order PSA's to be run on TV, radio and notices in the papers for at least 3 days...over and over, announicing that 'if you live in Ogden and were turned away at your polling place...take ID and go immediately to the County Clerk's office...(address) and vote! Think how many people did not fight for their right to vote like Dorothy did...and the Aardema's!
Godfrey and his thugs have trampled all over voter's Constitutional right to vote without harrassment or coercion.
If any of you have any of those 'ballots' that Godfrey sent out, hang on to them.
A huge investigation is in the works.
I can hardly wait for the little thug to be hauled off in handcuffs , hopefully at a CC meeting! Does this illustrate how scared the sneak is?
BTW...Hugo Chavez had HIS thugs out shooting citizens today in the public square who have dared to oppose THAT dictator! Godfrey is working up to emulate his hero.....he just destroys livlihoods, and reputations, and manipulates and thwarts the election process.
A little research locates a Blake Fowers who is a Wells Fargo employee from San Francisco.
Is he the Blake Fowers who compiled "The List"?
Also, who is Mark Jeffers from Morgan who signed a Letter to the Editor very recently? I can't find anyone who has ever heard of him. Does he really exist?
When I heard that Cami Geiger was a Godfrey watcher at either the Dee Events Center or Polk School I immediately had an urge to put in a GRAMA to see if she took vacation leave yesterday or unpaid leave in order to be working for her bosses campaign.
Let's hope she wasn't stupid enough to do it on taxpayers dimes.
And another name that I heard who was working for Godfrey's re-election was Jo Packham of 25th Street history.
That intrigued me because Tuesday's
SE had a big splash about Packham's daughter, Sara Toliver, being appointed as President & CEO of the Ogden Weber Convention Visitors Bureau at a comfy salary of $65,000.00. That announcement came from Republican County Commissioner Craig Dearden.
Interesting at how all the politicians stick together for their progeny.
Did anyone see the advertisement for that job so one of us ordinary public citizens could apply?????
To be honest, I just happened to notice it because of Packham's name. I thought she had left town after she went bankrupt.
I wonder what became of all the real estate she had been buying up in the 25th Street area?????
I believe Packham, with Godfrey materials on her lap at the table, and Cami Geiger checking off names at the table, were at Taylor School where the Aardema kids were challenged by Jason Godfrey!
If you read the article you would have known there were 32 applicants. And appointed indicates there was no hiring process, she was hired.
And if you are just gonna nose around get your facts straight, you are off base on everything you said.
Peope like you continue to drive down the relevance of this blog.
Blake Fowers?
A word on blog etiquette for gentle reader "come on."
You got off to a good start with this:
"If you read the article you would have known there were 32 applicants. And appointed indicates there was no hiring process, she was hired.
And if you are just gonna nose around get your facts straight, you are off base on everything you said."
Then... you caromed off course and said this:
"People like you continue to drive down the relevance of this blog."
Apparently some people don't get this blog. What we are here is a community of Emerald City citizens, with many differing attitudes, philosophies and perceptions.
Here's how it works:
What we do here is start off the day's discussion with a provocative and cranky post. Our readers take it from there. We get more reader comments than any Utah blog that we know of. This place is a true 24/7 neighborhood coffee shop/corner bar/ barber shop, where out lumpencitizens exchange "viewpoints," shall we say.
Normally anybody who makes a B.S. post on WCF gets corrected by a few of the thousands who read this blog. That's actually what you did, btw, in your first two paragraphs.
We'll remind you, since you seem to be new here: this blog isn't anybody's particular political soapbox.
What makes this blog continiously "relevant," contrary to your third paragraph assertion, is that the citizens of our Weber County Forum sort out the truth by discussion, a process which occurs by means of robust dialogue.
Stick around, gentle reader "come on." Your hypothesis that one cranky comment reduces the relevancy of Weber County Forum isn't borne out by Weber County Forum's soaring page-hit numbers.
come on--
I don't think anything I said that could be misconstrued except I said appointed instead of hired. What is the difference when your mom's past association opened the door.
Jo Packham was at the end of the table with her trusty clipboard oppostive Bobby G. at the Dee Events Center when I voted.
Apprently she likes to conspire to contol election results almost as much as she likes to drone on about how superior she is while speaking at a friend's funeral.
beaver- I am confused . Please set me straight. You say Packham was at Dee Events building.
So do you know where Cami Geiger was watching?
I'll tell you what Cami was watching carefully on Tuesday. My package.
I know Bobby G. and Packham. They were stationed behind each of the judges' tables with clipboards in hand-presumably containing the names that gave Blake a tummy ache.
I was told the woman who I spoke to at the provisional ballots table was Cami Geiger, a poll worker not a Godfrey observer. But, I could be wrong, I don't know her by sight, and she was helpful and friendly.
Facts,
Hey Come On, here are a few facts for you. The person hired at the Ogden Weber Convention Visitors Bureau (Jo Packhams daughter) has zero Convention Visitors Bureau experience except maybe for the Women Create convention promoted by her momma.
That event, under Godfreys' manipulations and the Packham matriarch's guidance, received thousands of dollars in so called Economic Development sponsorships. Even with the aid of corporate welfare checks they still skipped out on several local businesses by not paying their bills. Including a huge debt owed the Conference Center that Godfrey had tax payers write off when poor Jo couldn't pay up.
Further more concerning the Ogden Weber Convention Visitors Bureau candidates, two of the out-of-town finalists were CVB experienced professionals. Their credentials lacked hometown cronyism influence. Sorta like token interviewees. Check it out.
THE SKI IS BEAUTIFUL BLUE's unqualified, high-school-graduate wife is a project "manager" for Lying Little Matty Gondola Godfrey, at a salary in excess of $65K a year. She was also an election judge. Apparently, she has no distaste for the repulsive stench of onions emanating from THE SKI IS BEAUTIFUL BLUE's mouth. Also: She really, really likes gondolas! Likes 'em a lot. So does her family!
THE SKI IS RAGGED WITH CLOUDS
Also, there is photographic evidence of poll workers with Lying Little Matty Gondola Godfrey campaign materials on site; this travesty is far from over, so someone get a van for that freakish alien Jason Godfrey, so he can park it in order to view the latest Warren Miller film being screened on Lying Little Matty Gondola Godfrey's forehead.
THE SKI IS STARK AND GLOOMY
A part time employee of Jo Packum had a VH sign in her yard. Ms. Packum saw it one day while driving by and stopped to confront the employee. Supposedly Jo said, "I don't care who you vote for, but you will not advertise for that woman!" She then took the sign out of the yard threw it in her car and drove off.
This is as witnessed by a neigbor - the employee was too scared to do anything about it. I can't say any more without getting someone in trouble - but I swear this really happened!
Is it true that Blake Fowers is the person who was driving Royal Eccles white pickup taking Amy Wicks signs when she walked up?
Jo Packham has been subsisided by hundreds of thousands of dollars by city redevelopment, ie. Scott Brown and Mayor Godfrey to bail her out of her business failure a few years ago. This debt will probably never be paid back to Ogden. She lost her already ailing businesses and real estate to the publishing company who fronted her for the many books she did not produce due to her Women Create which bombed and her hijacking of Farmers Market. She lost all her retail on 25th, buildings and is major debt to many including the city. Her daughter Sara Toliver is her partner and now is head of the OWVCB almost $800k budget. I find it ironic that they bombed so badly and was still hired in this position. I also here she will be on the RAMP committee which handles over $3 million in tax payer money. Something is wrong in Dodge. But I guess this is how things work in this town. Something should be done to reveal this fact. All this is verifiable. I am concerned but it is good to be on the inside with the current administration which is why they are fighting so hard for his re-election. This craziness must stop!
From what I have been reading here it appears that quite a few hard core Godfrey supporters were a part of the election process from Cami Geiger's being an election judge to Bobby Geiger and Jo Packham being poll watchers.
And don't forget Jason Godfrey who was shaking hands with voters as they entered the voting location.
What are some of the other names of the hardcore Godfrey people?
I am planning to call the ACLU so I need all the facts you have available in addition to what I experienced.
Jo Packham was also on the Board of Da Vinci Academy when it was first organized.
Sounds like connections with Mayor Godfrey pay off financially if you can stand being around him.
But then Birds of a Feather like each other regardless of the stench.
come on,
Please do us the honor of presenting your version of the facts.
We are all interested in just the facts.
Correction:
Cami Geiger and Packham were at the Dee Events Center and Jason Godfrey was at Taylor School.
He was reportedly greeting people with "Hello, Brother....." "Hello, Sister....", and he challenged the Aardema's.
Yep, it'll be a street festival for sure when these crooks are carted off in the squad cars with sirens wailing!
A CVB President from a back water Iowa town? One from backwoods Wisconsin or one who is a lifetime resident of Ogden who will treat the job with the focus and intensity of a young mother determined to make Ogden a great place for her two young children?
This forum is truly the most pathetic I've ever encountered. I came to listen to your concerns over voter intimidaiton allegations. All credibility vanished when you started in on Ms. Toliver's recent appointment by a BOARD OF DIRECTORS. The job wasn't offered by Godfrey, but by a board comprised of businesses that directly contribute to the CVB's efforts....lodging properties, resorts, businesses, etc. from all over Weber County.
Your paranoid rants have destroyed what you set out to accomplish. On one hand you decry the culture of the dominant religion in the community for their support of Godfrey, while on the other you fully embrace their ridiculous notion that the "sins" of the parents should be "answered upon the heads of the children" for several generations.
You have a problem with Jo Packham? Take your idiotic shots at Jo Packham. But to attack the woman who was clearly the most qualified applicant for CVB president shows that you are truly the "naysayers" that the lifties portray you to be. The job was posted in the Examiner....which you're all above reading, but also the Tribune and the CVB website. Not exactly a secretive process.
You want input? Give your money and time to the CVB's efforts. Become a member of their board of directors and engage in the hiring process. Otherwise, shut the hell up.
Anybody think the Council will go ahead and approve the results of this election on Tuesday if Godfrey ends up winning? SVH, Dorrene Garcia and Wicks would never let it happen. This thing is gonna drag on.
Apparently Ben Lomond hasn't been around long and has no idea how far reaching the pathetic mayor's reach is.
How the hell would you know if this Ms. Toliver was the best suited candidate? Unless you are on the CVB board you wouldn't.
Just because someone is a lifetime resident of Ogden who will treat the job with the focus and intensity of a young mother determined to make Ogden a great place for her two young children doesn't make you the most qualified applicant.
The way you talk you make it sound like the only people qualified for any position must be a life long resident of Ogden with two young children determined to make Ogden a great place.
If this Toliver is such a great asset to Ogden City where has she been up to here? What has she done up to this point for Ogden?
I don't know this person at all, never even heard of her until the newspaper article, but apparently others have and are voicing their concerns and if you don't like it tough.
You must be a Godfrey supporter because you are opposed to people voicing their opinions and concerns and you get pissed off when it doesn't agree with you own.
You and your little friend Toliver better get used to the public's personal attacks, because that's what you get when you go into a position that the public sees. No matter what you do or say someone will not agree with you and they will attack you. If you can't handle it close your curtains and climb under your bed because that will be the only place you can hide. Idiot!!!!!
Ben Lomond is partially correct. Many (not all) on this Forum see illegality and conspiracies at every turn - granted the political culture in Ogden at this time lends itself to such a view. But Ben, then you say: "I came to listen to your concerns over voter intimidaiton allegations. All credibility vanished when you started in on Ms. Toliver's recent appointment by a BOARD OF DIRECTORS." Keep in mind there are many more people who are part of this forum than the half dozen or so posting about the Toliver appointment? To lump all in together with your statement is incorrect. There are many different voices on this Forum. Don't assume that any one post (or even 6) speaks for all, any more than I should assume you post on this forum represents THE FORUM.
Rudi - I am responding to your way early comment "if it quacks like a duck ..."
They must come from a different school of logic, one in which the duck is used as a counter-weight to determine the identity of a witch.
So, as it goes, "If it's made of wood, it floats; a duck also floats; so therefore, [without a doubt] if it weighs as much as a duck then --> it is a witch!" ... "BURN HER! BURN HER!" ... or, in this case, DON'T LET HER VOTE! DON'T LET HER VOTE! ...
hehe
Ben,
Guilt by association, eh?
Let's apply the same logic in the other direction. You announced earlier on this forum your intent to vote for Godfrey. Since you are a Godfrey supporter, I assume that you heartily approve of the deceptive and mean-spirited personal attacks against Van Hooser that Godfrey mailed during the final week of the campaign. I assume you also approve of the Godfrey campaign's targeted voter intimidation efforts.
Well, no, actually I don't assume these things. But by the same token, I would ask you not to assume that I share the views of everyone else on this forum.
Thank you.
Ms.Toliver is her mothers daughter. Jo and Sara are lovely... but lets look at the record. Ask about the rda debt to their businesses set up by Scott Brown (ie mayor) through the rda. Will it ever get paid? When you are in charge of almost a million in owcvb budget and working with three million in ramp tax assignment, lets look at the past record. Yes, sara has the chance to redeem her record at this position but lets not pretend this hasn't happened, and will the debt be paid and will she handle these budgets better then her own businesses? Should we put our heads in the sand and pretend? Where is the roots of all this and where is it going and how far? It's a giant web where so many are hooked into. Lets really contimplate what is going on here.
Godfrey said he was assured Monday by McEwan that absentee ballots already received would be counted and included in the unofficial vote results released on election night.
McEwan said he made no promises to Godfrey. “We’ve done the best we can. The main thing is, we are going to do it right.”
Just another lie by Godfrey
To Ben Lomond,
Your comment in the middle of your rant about those that are concerned about the recent filling of the CVB position. The comment below,
"On one hand you decry the culture of the dominant religion in the community for their support of Godfrey, while on the other you fully embrace their ridiculous notion that the "sins" of the parents should be "answered upon the heads of the children" for several generations."
Where are you coming from? Are you trying to suggest that Godfrey followers are his children in this supposed quote (if so, bad analogy)or are you suggesting that these issues are being drawn along religious lines?
Just curiuos as to where you were trying to go.
Just the Facts:
You wrote: From what I have been reading here it appears that quite a few hard core Godfrey supporters were a part of the election process from Cami Geiger's being an election judge to Bobby Geiger and Jo Packham being poll watchers.
Nothing wrong with Godfrey supporters being poll watchers. The VH campaign could have had poll watchers at precincts as well. The poll watchers are supposed to be from the different camps [usually Democrats and Republicans]. They're present to (a)keep an eye on things and report election irregularities --- like campaigning by poll workers for example, or campaigning by candidate supporters at the polls and <2> to keep track of how many people have voted by say mid-afternoon. If it's a precinct expected to be strong for your guy, you want to know this, so that if you can get on the horn and get your people phoning your supporters in that precinct to remind them to vote, to offer rides to the polls if needed, etc. Nothing wrong with this and having poll watchers for candidates at the polls in no way violates either law or voters' rights.
And everyone is eligible [except I would imagine the candidates themselves] to be a poll worker Yes, even Godfrey supporters, Van Hooser supporters and the non-aligned. So I don't think you will have grounds for any complaint merely on those grounds.
However, if Godfrey supporters who were poll workers were campaigning for him at the polls, or displaying Godfrey campaign material [even passively, like leaving it lying on a chair nearby], or ignoring campaigning by his poll watchers or others at the polls, that's another matter and one that might be well worth pursuing.
But the mere fact that known Godfrey supporters were there as poll watchers or even poll workers will not provide legitimate grounds for complaint or action. Nor would the fact that known VH supporters were present as poll watchers or poll workers, unless, as before, it can be shown they were actively campaigning themselves or overlooking campaigning by others at the polls.
I'm sorry to see Ben Lomond descending to cherry-picking a quote here, a comment there, and then cobbling together some composite "view" he promptly attributes to everyone posting here... as others noted above. Had hopes that BL might be interested in joining a conversation here about Ogden politics and city matters, but it seems, sadly, he's opted instead to sink into exaggeration and belligerent ranting instead. Perhaps we can charitably attribute that to election fatigue and hope he'll return to conversation instead of ranting when things calm down a bit. Hope so.
Two things about today's S-E really bugged me. Also, I have one leftover thing from yesterday.
1. As I recall (someone could post a transcript), Gov. Huntsman's positive remarks on Mayor Godfrey's administration were standard political boilerplate. "I've seen the wonderful progress Gotham City has made since Commissioner Gordon took over the police department, yada, yada, yada." At no point do I recall Gov. Huntsman endorsing Mayor Godfrey. So to say (or imply) that the Governor endorsed Godfrey, and then somehow rescinded that endorsement, is just plain wrong.
2. Cindi Mansell is upset that the Weber County election officials are not counting votes fast enough. Couldn't have anything to do with the 700 (or so) provisional ballots your team forced into the process, could it? Couldn't have anything to do with the Godfrey lawyers continuing in their attempt to gum up the electoral process?
The huge discrepancy in the number of absentee and provisional ballots, depending on whether one reads the S-E or Trib, is also troubling, given the election shenanigans going on.
Further, the headline says "Ogden Tally Delay Frustrates Leaders", yet only one "leader" is quoted.
3. Leftover from yesterday: "Why Did Davis Vote for More Traffic Jams?" A question like that belongs on the Opinion pages, and NOT on the front page. Perhaps (just a guess here) people in Davis County objected to a tax whose purpose was never clearly defined, since all the proponents of the tax seemed to be able to say was, "send us some money and we'll use it for some transportation purpose we'll tell you about later." Maybe the voters of Davis County were looking for an actual plan for spending the money. I'm just speculating here.
On the new CVB head:
I do not know the woman, or her qualifications, or the reasons she was selected over the competition for the job. I know nothing about her mother's business activities other than her mis-handling, badly, the downtown Farmer's Market for the brief period she helpted managed the event. But I think it unwise to attribute willy nilly the characteristics of a parent to a child. Seems unfair. The new CVB head will rise or fall, succeed or fail, on her own merits or the lack of them, and then we'll know if the hire was a good one. I hesitate to lambaste anyone for incompetence the week after they got the job.
That said, those rising to her defense need to consider, at least, the long record of cronyism established by the Godfrey administration, examples of which have been in the public prints, and on WCF quite a bit over the last few years. Given that, suspicion that cronyism is at work again here is not unreasonable. There seems to be a lot of it going around these days.
Jill:
On the Cindi Mansell story in the SE today: I thought it was pretty much a non-story myself. She's frustrated at the delay. Who isn't? But, seems to me, it's much more important to get the tally right than to get the tally, or part of it, fast. In either case, it didn't seem like much of a story to me, and certainly not a front page story.
But I wouldn't start flinging accusations around just yet about whose fault the less-than-smoothly handled election was. Time to sort that out... and it needs sorting out... is after the votes are tallied and the winners declared. First things first.
It may be the way Utah law deals with voter challenges all but guaranteed problems, that the law was designed to handle the occasional challenge to one or two or a handful of voters, not massive challenges for partisan political purposes. [The story Jim posted an others linked to about a Republican state legislative candidate in SL County some years ago challenging very registered Democrat and Independent in his district is a good example.] It may be county election officials had no choice, or thought they did, under the existing rules, but to do with the challenges what they did. Or perhaps not. As I said, it does need to be sorted out. After the main job, tallying the votes properly, is done. Not before.
Speaking of cronyism, I find it frightening that, thanks to the phone canvass conducted by his campaign, Godfrey now has in his possession a list of the names of thousands of Ogden residents who said they would vote for him, and thousands who said they would vote for Van Hooser. Just think of all the ways he could use such a list...
Meanwhile, be sure to check out today's Grondahl cartoon.
Just a followup to what I posted:
Yes, Godfrey is quoted as saying he was promised that absentee ballots would be tallied on Tuesday. But only Mansell is described as "frustrated."
Curm, did you just call me "Jill"?
We just got off the phone with Gloria Berret, who informs us that the process of counting the provisionals still remains in progress, and that the counting should be complete sometime in the early afternoon.
She'll be emailing various members of the press when the process is complete, and we'll be sure to post the information we receive at the earliest opportunity.
Curm:
I agree, to a point, about slinging accusations regarding who is "at fault" for the delay. I'm sorry if I was perceived as doing that.
However, I do think it's appropriate to point out the hypocrisy of interfering with the process, then complaining about the delays which result.
Before the City Council certifies the election result I hope they ask to look at a sample of Provisional Ballots that were dis-counted and the reasons they were not counted. I also want a city council to ask questions, have accurate data and not be satisfied with gut reactions. It was my understanding that Jo Packham was close enough that voters almost had to step over her at Dee to vote, and she had Godfrey letterhead in plain view sitting there.
One brief comment. I hope all you folks that voted for lying little matty, for what ever reasons, take notes on how he's behaving during this waiting period. Once again his true lack of character and distain for honesty comes to the forefront.
Were any of the challenges valid? He first caims to have had no knowlege of the voter challenges yet defended them imediately in the press and had lawyers at the ready to continue challenging.
All alledged shenanigans are from his team, not Susie's, she has been gracious and content to allow the proccess to play out.
To me it's a shame that such an ethically challenged, dishonest sort as lying little matty, could be your choice as an elected official. His actions since the election, let alone his smear tactics in last weeks of the campain offer enough to know he's an embarrasment to our community.
Ben Lomond:
In regards to your enlightened statement "On one hand you decry the culture of the dominant religion in the community for their support of Godfrey".
You have just accused me of being a Godfrey supporter and have categorized an entire religion in the same way you have accused this entire Forum of being paranoid conspiracy finding nuts. It sounds to me like you have a serious problem with prejudices and could probably use some counseling.
Second I don't know where you were going with the statement "while on the other you fully embrace their ridiculous notion that the 'sins' of the parents should be 'answered upon the heads of the children' for several generations.'"
But unless I am confused about my own religion, the second article of faith clearly states that "Man shall be punished for His own Sins and Not for Adams Transgression."
Your arguments are just a little nutty. Please write again after you have had some counseling.
We'd like to point out that delays in the counting of absentee and provisional ballots are the norm in Weber County and Ogden City elections. That's why final results usually aren't available for at least a couple of weeks. In last year's general election the final tallies weren't available until the third week in November.
In the instant case, it turns out that the large number of yet uncounted ballots could make a difference in several races, unlike the situation in "normal" elections. Still we don't believe Weber County Election officials should be compelled to "rush" the results.
Accuracy trumps quickness every time in the counting of votes, we think. And keep in mind that election officials are dealing with an unprecedented number of provisionals.
At this point it would seem that the only person complaining about the delays are the folks from the campaign of the Little Lord on Nine; and they do it publicly via the Godfrey Lackey Standard-Examiner.
Of course we suspect that the counting would be all done by now, if Boss Godfrey's own election department were counting the votes.
He'd no doubt just "throw out" all the provisionals.
That ain't gonna happen under Weber County Clerk Alan McEwan's watch.
Poor little misguided, gondola freak child that he is, Ben Lomond was referring to Ms. Tolliver not being judged for her mother's business lapses, gaffes and bankruptcies. Although the posters make a valid connection, because Ms. Tolliver was supposedly the business genius behind all these failed enterprises. I do note, however, that Ms. Tolliver seems eminently qualified for the CVB post, given her MBA and downtown business operation experience. And I prefer that an Ogden native, wherever possible, given proper qualification, be appointed. It looks like a good hire to me. That being said, her mother is the most arrogant sack 'o crap in the western hemisphere; she makes the onion-reeking Geigers look like Garrison Keillor.
THE SKI IS MAUDLIN PURPLE
Thank you Jason,
I am new to Ogden and have not learned all the in & outs of this very entertaining city and its history. Big fan of the Blog though.
Jim/Jill:
Sigh. Sorry. The ol' peepers, approaching middle age as I am, don't work as well as they once did, especially if I don't have my computer glasses on, as, rushing to leave this AM I didn't. Sorry.
Kristen Moulton has a story up in the SL Trib on election complaints being filed with Weber County and with the County attorney's office. Link here.
Right on, Bill C.! I hate to think that there are as many unethical people in Ogden as the votes indicate. When some of Godfrey's followers have been asked character-defining questions, a person has no alternative but to believe they are as base as Godfrey. But I also believe that some who voted for him with fooled by his smooth talking. Jeske related a story to me. She said that she received a phone call from a friend she had known for more than 50 years. It seems that this friend attended a neighborhood cottage meeting for Godfrey and she said that Godfrey answered all the questions that he was asked with what seemed viable answers, but she told Dorrene that she knew that she didn't lie, and so she didn't believe what Godfrey told the group.
With the crap that has been done by the Godfrey camp this election, I believe Jeske not Godfrey. Godfrey and his gang have proved their unscrupulous nature for all of Ogden to see.
Just the facts, GOOD FOR YOU!! GO FOR IT! I hope the ACLU gets involved in this mess! They will take on Godfrey! And I hope ALL his underhanded, legally questionable dealings are brought to the light. Pictures were taken of Jo Packham with Godfrey's literature on her lap sitting next to the judges' table, and ask anyone who lives in the Taylor area how they were greeted when they went to vote.
If the editors at the SE had any morals, they would run an article about the "hit list" issued by Blake Fowers and ask all those who had gone to the polls but were denied their constitutional right to vote and were unable to return later with the required ID, thereby, not voting in this election, to contact say the Weber County Clerk's office, 399-8400, or the City Council office, 629-8153, and let them know. I think this election should be challenged.
Nero, do you know what you're talking about? It makes me wonder when you say it was Fowers driving Eccles who was caught by Wicks with one of her signs in his hand. It was Bobby Geiger who was caught by Wicks with one of her signs in his hands. Be sure you have your facts straight when you post.
Good find, Curm. We've added a story link to the front page.
Dan:
You wrote: Speaking of cronyism, I find it frightening that, thanks to the phone canvass conducted by his campaign, Godfrey now has in his possession a list of the names of thousands of Ogden residents who said they would vote for him, and thousands who said they would vote for Van Hooser. Just think of all the ways he could use such a list...
If Hizzonah is as smart as I'm sure his sycophants keep telling him he is, he will learn something from his hair's breadth win [presuming it stands] and look upon knowing who voted for his opponent as an opportunity to win them over, to convince them that they were wrong about him and his administration. Given past performance, though, and his demonstrated taste for vindictiveness, cronyism and arrogant contempt for those who dare to think differently than he does about... well, about everything and anything... I am not optimistic.
A sharp office holder would draw similar lessons from his losing a largely rubber stamp majority on the Council two years ago, and the voters having refused evidently to give him a rubber stamp council this time. A sharp politico would begin trying to figure out [again, presuming the results hold up] how a political novice who had never run a race before, and had a fraction of the money he had, who was opposed by the city's only newspaper, and who had the CEO of the Chamber of Commerce writing op-eds opposing her, managed with an all-volunteer campaign organized at the last minute, to come within 182 votes of turning out of office a two term incumbent so awash in money he could afford a professional campaign management firm overseeing his own campaign.
But, as I said, given past performance, I am not optimistic he will learn from the experience and look on his narrow escape as a reason to change minds, build bridges and win over those who voted for Van Hooser. Not optimistic at all... though that is definitely what a smart politician would do.
We shall see....
Once again, if you want important an relevant news reporting in Ogden, you turn to the Salt Lake Tribune, or here.
Nice work, Kristen.
Which is the most important crisis facing Ogden in the current election brouhaha?
S-E: The Governor was not clear whether or not he endorsed Mayor Godfrey and vouchers.
Trib: Voters report intimidation and electioneering at the polls; Godfrey supporters deny same.
Hmm.
Oh, and I forgot this:
S-E: They're not counting ballots fast enough.
Dan S.:
When I was called by Godfrey's callers they simply asked me if I was planning to vote today.
I said yes.
They said, Thanks.
Nothing about who, when, or why.
Oh yes, and Curm was at the poll casting his vote and I felt very intimidated. Yet I voted the way I wanted to. How freaking weak do you people think voters are? Evidently they vote off of sign holders and letterhead.
Jeez:
20A-3-501. Polling place -- Prohibited activities.
(1) As used in this section:
(a) "electioneering" includes any oral, printed, or written attempt to persuade persons to refrain from voting or to vote for or vote against any candidate or issue; and
(b) "polling place" means the physical place where ballots and absentee ballots are cast and includes the county clerk's office or city hall during the period in which absentee ballots may be cast there.
(2) (a) A person may not, within a polling place or in any public area within 150 feet of the building where a polling place is located:
(i) do any electioneering;
(ii) circulate cards or handbills of any kind;
(iii) solicit signatures to any kind of petition; or
(iv) engage in any practice that interferes with the freedom of voters to vote or disrupts the administration of the polling place.
(b) A county, municipality, school district, or local district may not prohibit electioneering that occurs more than 150 feet from the building where a polling place is located, but may regulate the place and manner of that electioneering to protect the public safety.
(3) (a) A person may not obstruct the doors or entries to a building in which a polling place is located or prevent free access to and from any polling place.
(b) A sheriff, deputy sheriff, or municipal law enforcement officer shall prevent the obstruction of the entrance to a polling place and may arrest any person creating an obstruction.
(4) A person may not:
(a) remove any ballot from the polling place before the closing of the polls, except as provided in Section 20A-4-101; or
(b) solicit any voter to show his ballot.
(5) A person may not receive a voted ballot from any voter or deliver an unused ballot to a voter unless that person is a poll worker.
(6) Any person who violates any provision of this section is guilty of a class A misdemeanor.
(7) A political subdivision may not prohibit political signs that are located more than 150 feet away from a polling place, but may regulate their placement to protect public safety.
Jim,
I understand, but my question was, how week do you beleive people are? Also what proof do you have that these activities took place other than partisian posts on this blog (as that is not proof), and finally where were the attempts persuade?
Jeez:
I don't know if people are "week", as you say. I don't think they're weak, either.
It really doesn't matter what I think about people's moral fiber, or lack thereof.
What matters is that there is a law, and there is evidence that the law was violated. An investigation must take place. If the law finds that electioneering has taken place, then it will be recorded as a matter of fact that it did.
As I did not personally observe electioneering taking place at the polls, I have no thoughts, one way or another, on the truth or falsity of the accusations. Yet, I can read the accusations, not only in WCF (not my only source of information by a long shot) but in newspapers and in personal conversations.
I am not an attorney, but I can read. In my non-professional opinion, it is not appropriate to make a list of 146 people who you will ask for additional proof of residency, not asked of any other voter.
In my mind (again, not a legal or professional opinion, but as a lay person), that rises to the definition of an "attempt to persuade persons to refrain from voting".
Wouldn't you agree that making someone come to the polls three times over a period of five hours is an "attempt to persuade persons to refrain from voting"? I would submit that even making someone go home and get a utility bill (something that was apparently done, even though the Lieutenant Governor's Chief of Staff says it was inappropriate) is an "attempt to persuade [emphasis mine]" someone to refrain from voting.
For example, I know one person who was on the list who is one of the strongest people I know. Yet, s/he was outraged at his/her presence on the list, and it left a bad taste in his/her mouth regarding the municipal election process. In my experience with this person, his/her very presence on this list amounts to an "attempt to persuade" and I would testify to that fact in a court of law, if asked.
Explain to me why the names found on this list of 146 are on the list. I know about the Dorothy Littrell and Jesse Garcia obsessions. I know that Ms. Littrell's residency has been questioned before (on this blog, as well as in other venues).
But I don't understand, and I would like to have explained to me, why people I know and respect were on the list, when there is no demonstrable evidence besides Blake Fowers' Spidey-Sense that they were attempting to vote outside of their proper precinct.
Even if someone is strong, and not weak, they should not be subjected to an "attempt to persuade". If you don't like the law, then get it changed, but that's the law as it now stands.
We spoke with Weber County Clerk Alan McEwan this morning; and from the gestalt of our conversation we concluded that Weber County officials are not happy this morning, with the cheap shot delivered in this morning's Godfrey Propagana Organ Std-Ex editorial. Weber County officials are always very polite regarding other officials in overlapping political jurisdictions, of course, especially when speaking with the press.
Our conclusion from this conversation however is that Boss Godfrey has now burned his bridges with numerous Weber County officials, due to his narcissistic compulsion to control EVERYTHING. For some odd reason, Weber County officials don't feel compelled to "take orders" from Boss Godfrey. Imagine that...
The jig's up for Godfrey this election cycle, even in a "worse case" scenario, wherein Godfrey is finally elected to a third term.
As gentle reader Moroni McConkie so elequently said in an earlier comment, maybe it's time for Boss Godfrey to bury his lame horse.
Hey Jim, re-read my post...I believe it is you who are "weak." Get new reading glasses.
"In my experience with this person, his/her very presence on this list amounts to an "attempt to persuade" and I would testify to that fact in a court of law, if asked."
Regarding this brilliant observation...the list was quite legal as reported in many places. Your testimony to the contrary wouldn't mean crap.
Jeez:
They asked you that because they already had you on their list as a probable supporter.
Here's how it works, provided you have the funding to do this: in the weeks before the election, you do a phone canvass, calling all the voters you can, asking if you can count on their support. You make lists of those who say yes, and you notice the precincts of concentrations of those who say no.
Then, on election day, you start calling the one's who said yes. If you have a poll watcher in your strong precincts keeping records of which of their probably supporters has already voted, mid afternoon, you deliver that list to your campaign HQ and they start calling everyone on their supporters list who has not voted.
Had the Godfrey campaign listed you as a non-supporter, they would absolutely not have called you to remind you to vote that day. Though the VH campaign might have, if they had you listed as a supporter. They did a much more limited canvass with volunteers. The extensive long term canvas is one of the things Godfrey's edge in funding made possible for him.
If you are unscrupulous, you might also use the lists your canvass developed to create lists of those you want challenged, to try to suppress the vote for the opposition.
All of this is perfectly legal, proper and ethical in election campaigns, except the final step noted in the paragraph just above this one.
Jeez:
You said:
I understand, but my question was, how week do you beleive people are?
I answered your question, Jeez. If you want to call me "weak", here are two tips:
1. Spell the word correctly.
2. Try English. Here's a sample:
"Jim, you are weak."
We're Weke.
Rudi
Is the county going to let the public know the actual results of the provisional ballets, and how they effect the total vote count, today - or are they going to announce the results with the absentee ballots Tuesday?
It's always a good sign when a blog discussion devolves into grammar/spelling criticism ...
I thought it would be interesting for people to read, and interpret for themselves, the following sections of Utah election law.
Poll Watchers.
Challenges.
Provisional Ballots.
Reading these, I see several interesting points.
One is that, contrary to what was stated by Mayor Godfrey on KSL, poll watchers are required to have an affadavit from an individual [emphasis mine], not a letter on campaign letterhead.
"Each candidate poll watcher shall be designated, and his selection made known to the poll workers, by an affidavit made by the candidate appointing him." (Utah Code 20A-3-201-1-b-iii).
If, as has been alleged, poll watchers were displaying the Godfrey campaign's logo, that would be electioneering within 150 feet of the polls under the law.
Also,
"Voting poll watchers may watch and observe the voting process, and may make a written memorandum, but they may not interfere in any way with the process of voting except to challenge a voter as provided in this part." (Utah Code 20A-3-201-3.)
If the poll watchers did anything to impede a person's right to vote without making an official challenge (and the rules on making challenges are quite specific), then they would be in violation of the law.
Again, you may not like it, but the way I read this is if you so much as speak to a voter you could be accused of impeding a person's right to vote. The watchers are only allowed to make challenges and observe the process and take notes. This is regardless of how weak you think the electorate is. Take it up with the State Legislature.
I invite readers of this forum to read the laws for themselves and comment further.
jp:
Yeah. Sorry about that. I guess I am weak.
One more thing on the challenge list, which jeez asserts is "quite legal as reported in many places."
I'm not sure that it is. As far as I've seen, no one has supplied a list of reasons as required under the law:
Any person may challenge the right to vote of any person whose name appears on the official register by filing a written signed statement identifying the challenged voter's name and the basis for the challenge with the county clerk during regular business hours and not later than the date that falls two business days before the date voting commences. [emphasis mine]
We've never seen a list that included the basis for the challenge. For your sake, Mr. Fowers, I hope you supplied it to the county clerk.
I believe, per the S-E, the basis was based address discrepancies and the addresses were supplied, according the list on Standard.net.
Also I understand the snide "week vs. weak" issue now. Original post was weak and second post was a typo. But your snideness is greatly appreciated.
Jim
It really doesn't matter one whit if Flowers did it according to the law or not. It has been shown on numerous occasions that the County Attorney and the State Attorney General will not investigate or prosecute the Godfreyites for their numerous and continuous violations of the laws. They are above the law and if you don't believe me just ask Godfrey!
Jim,
Fowers did write a letter stating the reasons for the challenges. I saw it.
I agree with John that the Standard should run a story on the voters who were not allowed to vote, and even find and talk to some of those who did not vote because of the challenge.
How about it, Andy?
jim, Thanks for your input on this debacle.
The County Clerk 's list of the voter challenges does not give a legitimate reason for the challenge.
The Fowers list has my residence listed as "South Ogden" with no street address which is pure fiction. The person compiling the list was no longer being creative if this was supposed to be the legitimate basis for the challenge.
I can prove my statement as I did obtain a copy of the list from the Clerk's office when I was trying to cast my vote.
I have never lived in South Ogden although I did own an office building under a partnership name on 37th Street for many years.
Someone was being very creative through harrassment to try to prevent me from voting.
Very interesting to hear the man who will in essence decide the mayoral election stated Godfrey "has burned a bridge" with him.
Littrell,
How can you say anything about anyones honesty or dishonesty, when you have been told by a completely neutral and distinguished judge that your claims are completely without merit and filed in bad faith!!!
Do you know how rare that is, for a judge to make those findings and to say what he said to you?
Its easy enough to find where your "residence" is, anyone just needs to look at your IRS filings and see what address you listed. Nobody but you knows yet what that is, but its easy enough to find out.
AND, you were allowed to vote anyway, why don't you file another frivolous lawsuit and give the judge another opportunity to publicly reprimand you.
I couldn't have been more pleased to see the women take over Ogden this week. We now have 4 women on the council and perhaps a mayor! These MEN have run things far too long and it's time we clean up after them ALL!
Next....Hillary!!!
antilib said...
"Its easy enough to find where your "residence" is, anyone just needs to look at your IRS filings and see what address you listed. Nobody but you knows yet what that is, but its easy enough to find out."
Okay, antilib. Here's Utah's definition of the legal term of art: "residency."
20A-2-105. Determining residency.
Please show us the part where residency, under this pertinent code provision, is determined by "IRS filings" for the purposes of Utah Election Law.
Thanks in advance, dummy.
Ah, Godfreyite Mr. President is back again, posting a series of f-bombs.
Godfreyites are SUCH nice people.
Rudi, this law also states that a person only can have one resident. Did Dorothy vote in the North Ogden elections as well? Just a question.
"Did Dorothy vote in the North Ogden elections as well? Just a question."
Of course not.
What a stupid question.
Great to be berated by the blog host!
I feel SO welcome here.
Antilib:
Ms. Littrel's lawsuit was, as I've said here on a number of occasions, ill-advised, ill-timed and not likely to prevail on the merits [and it turned out to be so]. For the sake of argument, let's concede that its purpose was purely political.
None of that alters one iota her right to cast a ballot in the Mayoral election with no more difficulty than other voters faced. Once she returned to the polls the first time with ID listing her Ogden address, at that point, poll workers had no other option but to at least issue her a provisional ballot. They allegedly did not. And according to the SOS's office, once she returned with the ID they should have permitted her to vote, on the machines, in the usual way, that requiring a provisional ballot was not their proper response.
Whether what happened to her at the polls is actionable we will have to wait to see. But as far as her rights as a voter are concerned, she could have filed 47 unsuccessful lawsuits against the mayor last week, and 57 the week before that, and her rights as a voter would have been in no way diminished, nor should she, by right of having filed the lawsuits, have been required to meet a standard in order to vote in any way more stringent than that required of every voter arriving at the polls.
Sorry, Oscar, but if you knew Dorothy like many of us do, you'd know you asked a TRULY DUMB QUESTION. That's how it seemed to your blogmeister, at least. Kinda like asking whether Mother Teresa "turned tricks on the side," whilst healing the poor people of India.
Don't be offended though, Oscar... and WELCOME!
Rudizink,
That is hilarious, comparing Littrell to Mother Theresa, everything you have ever written or will ever write lost complete and total credibility with that statement.
The point of the IRS statement, for you the ignorant, is that they both define "primary residence" in the same way. So, for the non legally trained Rudi, if they differ then I'm sure one of those agencies would love to know that Ms. Littrell is double dipping, her primary residence changes to suit her current agenda. That's the point, "dummy." And as far as I'm concerned, I'd rather have the address be different with the IRS and to let them know that she is double dipping. You see the IRS is one of those agencies that actually rewards whistle blowers, "dummy." So if she has told two governmental agencies two different things, that becomes quite relevant. "dummy"
Curm
The fraudulent lawsuit which you couch as political now, is very relevant, as it goes to her credibility and whether or not anyone should believe anything she says happened to her at this point. Thats why the "bad faith" lawsuit is important.
You ought not call people who differ in opinion dummy, just off hand, you have no idea, who I am, or my level of education or lack thereof. And just because you can go to Utah.gov and look up statutes in no way makes anyone here a legal authority.
Nothing you say is going to change my opinion and nothing I say is going to change your opinion, but falling back to your stupid as responses is both juvenile and ignorant.
News judgment at the Standard Examiner.... what the devil is going on over there?
A ways above now, in a reply to a Jim post, I raised the question of the SE's news judgment in putting the story about the Weber County recorder being "frustrated" by the decision not to announce the results of counting challenged voters' ballots until Tuesday. That the Recorder's frustration seemed to me like being a long long way from a front page story.
Even more astonishing, though, is the story the SE made the lead story today, front page, with large banner headline: Layton Nativity to shine and the subhead was
Catholic Church property to house Christian-sponsored display .
I presumed it was a story about a lawsuit that forced a purely religious display off of public property... I look for stories that involve First and 14th Amendment issues in a desperate and largely unsuccessful attempt to convince my students that History Matters.
But that's not what the story was about. The story.. which the SE made the lead story of the day on the front page was that four Christian churches have decided to build an Christmas nativity scene on a church's lawn. That's it. No controversy, no lawsuit. Four Christian churches are building a nativity scene on a church lawn. Clearly, a "stop the presses!" story if ever there was one.
What the hell is going on over there at the SE? I mean, I know there are slow news days, but "Christians to Celebrate Christmas" as the lead story of the day? That ranks right up there with College of Cardinals Chooses Catholic as Next Pope or Sun To Rise In East, Scientists Say or Godfrey Ethics Problems Multiply or Breaking News: Brown Bear Defecates In Woods.
There are close calls in news judgment, I agree. It's an art, not a science. But Christian churches to erect nativity scene on church lawn for Christmas as the lead story in the paper?
Sorry Mr. President. I was in error when I labeled you dummy.
The more correct term would of course be MORON.
While I disagree completely with the tactic employed by Mr Fowers in putting the challenge list together (attempting to supress the vote of your opposition), there is nothing illegal about what he did. Dorothy's claim that she saw no legitimate reason for the challenge by Fowers is not Fowers' problem but the County clerk's problem. If Mr Fowers submitted an improper or incomplete challenge list the county clerk should have dismissed it. Again, while I am opposed to the use of this tactic by Mr Fowers, the real problem here is how the election officials handled things. Granted, they had not had to deal with challenges on this scale in the past and hopefully will not in the future, but they still need to be properly informed of appropriate procedure. As some have posted different polling locations seemed to do a better job of this than others. Finally what all of this suggests to me is that our state legislature may want to revisit the challenge law. It appears to be far too easy for challenges to be made, allowing for the kind of underhanded tactics employed by Mr Fowers.
AntiLib:
You wrote under a heading addressed to me: You ought not call people who differ in opinion dummy, just off hand, you have no idea, who I am, or my level of education or lack thereof.
Just for the record, I have not called you, or anyone else on this blog, "dummy." Ever.
As for the Ms. Littrel matter, what happened or did not at her polling place is a matter to be settled by a court, if she decides to take it there. My point was, that no previous lawsuits she brought, however numerous or unsuccessful, do not diminish her rights as a voter one iota. Same goes for you or me or Rudi or Bob Geiger or anyone else you'd care to name. If she believes her rights were violated, she is as free to take the matter to a court as you or I would be, that's all.
Cato:
Well put.
Meanwhile, there's this on the S-E web site:
Breaking News: Ogden police pursuing bank robber
Friday, November 9, 2007
OGDEN — Police are searching for a suspect in a bank robbery that happened about noon Friday.
A man approached a teller at the Wells Fargo Bank inside the Albertson’s grocery store at 20th Street and Harrison Avenue and handed over a note demanding money and threatening that the man had a weapon, said Ogden Lt. Scott Conley.
The man did not show a weapon during the robbery, Conley said. He took an undisclosed amount of money and left the store.
Conley said the suspect was described as a white male in his 20s, wearing a green t-shirt with another shirt beneath it and a green baseball cap.
Anyone with information about the robbery can call Ogden Police dispatch at 395-8221.
Because no weapon was seen, I wonder if this is the sort of robbery that Ogden City counted as a robbery until 2004, but stopped counting as a robbery in 2005.
Curm
I hit the return key and that dummy comment was not directed at you, as you did not call me dummy. You are correct she can go to court and prove that she was somehow disenfranchised and that is her right.
My point, by bringing up the illegal lawsuit (as determined by an impartial and sworn judge) is that her credibility has been called into question in a public forum. IF what happened to her, did in fact happen, (and I don't believe it did or more importantlyr that she is telling the truth about her residency) then there is a problem. But once again, I don't find Ms. Littrell a credible source because of the lawsuit.
Rudi,
Still falling back on name calling for your rebuttal!
Antilib, you claim that because of Ms Littrel's lawsuit and past actions, we should not believe what she is has posted here regarding her election day experience. But we do know that her right to vote in Ogden was challenged by Mr Fowers, and that he challenged many others as well. Moreover, Ms Littrel's description of what happened to her as a result of this challenge has been given some legitimacy by the fact that others have described a very similar experience. I'm with you. I don't believe everything she says (I don't even believe everything I say), but in this case I have no reason to doubt that Mr Fowers attempted to prevent her and many other Ogden citizens from voting this past Tuesday - and not, I think it is also very clear, because of some high sense of civic duty.
Or are you searching for other relevant code sections to see if I'm telling the truth, just let me know any statute you want me to look up as I have both the Utah and IRS Code volumes right here in my office.
Ms. Littrell and the other plantiffs filed a frivolous lawsuit, it's Brian Bernard's fault. Laymen like Littrell and the others cannot be expected to know whether or not their case has merit. In this case they relied on their attorney for that.
If their case was frivolous and entirely without merit as the trial judge contends, these people should find another lawyer to go after Mr. Bernard.
Actually I would like to say thanks again for the healthy debate, I quite enjoy it. But, I'm taking my children to go do some fun holiday things now and won't be able to play for a little while.
Any nasty comments are not being ignored I'm just not by my computer.
Ok one more, actually I was told that Ms. Littrell was advised of that and she said she wanted to go ahead anyway, I think the judge actually made that comment in his ruling. (Although I don't have him opinion in front of me) Lawyers can only advise their clients. I believe she was quoted as saying she would do it again and that she didn't mind paying the attorneys fees.
Does anyone know when the challenge lists were presented to the county clerk?
Cause the law stated they had to be submitted "with the county clerk during regular business hours and not later than the date that falls two business days before the date voting commences."
This, to me, would imply the lists would have needed to be presented to the county clerk no later than 10/18 or 10/19. Early voting "the date voting commenced" began 10/22 or 10/23.
And the trial judge contends nothing, parties in a case contend, the judge ruled.
As for the actual challenges, seems the document linked to in the WCF archives did specify addresses for each of the challenged voters.
I know that as I looked through the registered voter list I got from the county clerk, that I recognized many names of people who I knew for a fact had moved out of the residence they were listed as being registered to vote at. In fact, my own daughter, who recently married and moved out, was still listed as a voter residing at my address. I thought about getting her to vote for me, but that would have been wrong. But I also never thought to turn any of the names in to be challenged either.
That's a trifling semantic distinction, Mr. President, until the Utah appellate court has ruled on the subject -- which it will.
Try to keep up.
Trifling to someone only if they don't understand the law.
An important distinction only to the anal-retentive.
Hey, wait a minute.
I ain't antilib.
Was that an insult directed at me or him?
Arcritic:
One of the things I've been wondering about for a few days now is how current are the voting rolls in Weber County, what procedures are in place to keep them current, are those procedures adequate and/or are existing mandated procedures being followed? Or in a nutshell, how often are the rolls "purged." Working as a volunteer precinct organizer for God's Party [the Democrats of course... you had to ask?], I've noticed a lot of addresses of registered Democrats, taken from the voter rolls, seem no longer to be accurate [moved away, died, etc.]
I can certainly understand County officials tip-toeing very very delicately around the idea of periodically purging the rolls, since if it's not done carefully, it can land them in a world of hurt and suits claiming voter discrimination, etc. Sometimes, ya can't win for losin'.
But I am curious what the procedures in WC [I presume state mandated] are for keeping voter rolls current. Any idea, you being a pol?
Sorry ARCRitic.
Mr. President and your blogmeister are having a little private tussle.
Our last comment had nothing at all to do with you.
Unfortunately our blog software doesn't allow nested subthreads. We apologize for the confusion.
curm:
Not sure about purging but I got a list of the 'active' voters in my city and the listing I got listed every election since the 1988 primary.
In looking over that list I see a voter whose last vote was cast in 1992 and another whose registration date was 2000 and they have never voted. And these are the ones the county clerk (actually they now get the list from the state, the lt. gov. SOS would be in other states. There goes that AR thing again) says are 'active'. I can't imagine what the one that included all voters would have looked like.
Just havin' some fun with ya, rudi.
I thought the results of the provisionals were supposed to be made public today where are they?
Just tryin' to remain hospitable, ARC.
"I thought the results of the provisionals were supposed to be made public today where are they?"
They'll be here when they're here, Rice.
Or in the immortal lyrics of Meatloaf:
Let me sleep on it
Baby, baby let me sleep on it
Let me sleep on it
And I'll give you my answer in the morning!!!
Patience, gentle readers.
Let's start a new thread. This one's giving me a headache! :)
leave the computer alone & go watch some Monty Python movies or something else light & entertaining. It's Friday night, enjoy yourself.
this is a long and exhausting blog for a Friday night.
rice,
The provisional ballots are processed in two steps. First they look at the information on the envelopes to determine which ballots are valid. Then they open them and look inside at the ballots themselves. I suspect that only the first step took place today, and the newspaper misunderstood and wrote "counting" where it should have said "validating".
By the way Rudi, if we're to continue this discussion, I think you should at least get my nickname correct and that would be Madame President vs. Mr. President.
People just keep calling me him and Mr. and thats incorrect.
Have a good night.
In the Court with Dorothy. Did the Judge ever say that the truth of the matter should be brought out or was it just assumed that what the lie-yers were saying was the truth?
The judge missed the boat. If he'd read the codes in violation, he'd have slapped down Mansell , Williams and Godfrey.
Dear Great Gaggle of Douches:
You all suck. Lying Little Matty Gondola Godfrey is a liar. Wake up happy with that, Geigers. You stupid Geigers. Geiger, Geiger, Geiger, Geiger, Geiger...
THE SKI IS BARREN AND DULL
Jason W
I haven't been here that long, so I'm ignorant of a lot of the inside jokes but I'm going to go out on a limb here and ask why you keep commenting on skis. Is it some reference to do with ski equipment because of the gondola thing or what?? But here is what I'm talking about:
THE SKI IS BARREN AND DULL
THE SKI IS MAUDLIN PURPLE
THE SKI IS STARK AND GLOOMY
THE SKI IS FOREBODINGLY STARK
Really not appropriate descriptions of sports equipment used to travel down a mountain or across country covered in snow.
Or do you mean sky as in the sky is clear and bright?
Or is Ski a proper noun, like your name or something, I just don't get it.
Geiger, Geiger, Geiger, Geiger, Geiger, Geiger...
Don't really see the fascination with that either but I'm willing to learn. I mean I know its a person, but I don't get why repeatedly typing his name or associating his name with someone else is relevant or even much of an attack.
But I know I'll get back stupid little Geiger, geiger, geiger, geiger, geiger.
Whatever!
TLJ:
You are letting real life interfere with blogging, just like Antilib who opted to spend time with his kids over blogging. You people have got to get your priorities straight. Next thing you know, you'll start letting work interfere with blogging. Get a grip, girl!
Hey Curm,
LOL, its nice to not get totally caustic comments directed at me, but its my own fault with the screen name I picked. I need to change that, every post starts off hostile. Actually, I did have a good time with my kids and for future reference and or attacks they are her kids not his kids as I'm a female, whose husband also thinks I'm spending too much time here, just because he too doesn't understand the important things that are getting discussed and solved on this site.
There we'll start slowly.
He sits a top city hall
He prevented old Junction's fall
A tip of the hat
To {re-elected} mayor Matt
we'll have a gondola by fall
20A-5-701. Willful neglect of duty or corrupt conduct -- Penalty.
(1) It is unlawful for any poll worker to willfully neglect his duty or to willfully act corruptly in discharging his duty.
(2) Any poll worker who violates this section is guilty of a felony and, upon conviction, shall be punished by a fine of $500 or by confinement in the state prison for not less than one year or both.
20A-5-701. Willful neglect of duty or corrupt conduct -- Penalty.
Good thing the Geigers' and Godfrey's have some dough so they can pay their fines! Mike Dowse and R & O could step up to the cashier's window with them.
We just got off the phone with Gloria Berret, in connection with the above SLTrib article update. Ms. Berret informs us that the verification process mentioned in Kristen's article involves verifying voter signatures only.
This has proven to be a tedious process, due to the large number of provisionals.
Ms. Berret also informs us that election officials have not sought additional legal advice, beyond initial consultations with the Weber County Attorney's office earlier this week.
Thanks for the info Rudi.
Rudi,
thanks for correcting the sltrib aricle, it had me worried
Dear Antilib Short-deck Geiger:
THE SKI IS BEAUTIFUL BLUE happens to be a clothing salesman who really likes onions and gondolas. He's also the co-mayor of Ogden, with his bipolar offspring, Short-deck, serving as his other municipaligoon half.
As to your education and identity --judging by your ability to write a coherent sentence, spell correctly, insert unnecessary punctuation like exclamation points and question marks -- I would have to guess you have a juris doctorate (just kidding, Rudi).
No, you are most certainly not a lawyer, as you write inane babble about "illegal" lawsuits and cite IRS codes for residency and voting applications; you are most certainly an idiot and moron of the highest order.
This is ipso facto; you support a known liar and criminal, and you do so with chest buffeted, indignantly, with pride. You jackass. You have no character, no mind, no ability to think. You are a brainless sheep. You are a joke.
And don't call Good Old (?) Curmudgeon a hypocrite. He is the mmost unflinching of fairness housemothers. He is truth and rigidity defined. Plus, he likes the passive voice and double negatives. Hypocrites are what you and people like Lying Little Matty Gondola Godfrey and Tom Cavendish Moore aspire to be. "The precious character of this young man." This little asshat has the gall to wake up in the morning and worship in a church hall. He is the most base reject of the human race and will one day face his karmic retribution, as will you and your unthinking ilk.
Geiger, Geiger, Geiger, Geiger, Geiger, Geiger, Geiger...
THE SKI IS BLACK WITH IMPENDING STORMS
Rudi:
Checking claims to see if they are correct. Damnit, Rudi, you keep that up, you'll never land that job as a political beat reporter for the SE....
Jason W:
So one of my characteristics is, to quote you, "unflinching fairness." Thanks yet again for the compliment. Appreciate it.
Love these Godrey quotes in the SE:
"The people on the eastern portion of town like what we are doing. Those people (in central and western Ogden) traditionaly vote against incumbents."
Guess they voted heavily for Wicks because they didn't know she was an incumbent!
Come on Schwebke, do your job, and call the little jerk on this crap.
Southsider:
What he also failed to mention is that the east side was the most solidly opposed to his park sale scheme. At the time, if you recall, he derided opponents of the "Peterson Proposal" as a bunch of rich eastsiders who didn't care about the rest of the city. Which is why his pollster and advisers had to tell him if he didn't back off the park sale idea, and damn quick and no bones about it, he was not going to be re-elected.
Amazing how his tune's changed in just a few weeks, isn't it?
Jason
Just how boring would your life be if you didn't have the Geiger boys to rail on?
There is maybe a lot they stand for that most of us find offensive, and being bestest buddies with the dwarf certainly casts a long shadow over just what they may be up to. However, having gotten to know Bob just a little bit last year, I believe they are just misguided, not inherently evil - as you seem to think.
It occurs to me that the basic disagreement between us'n and them is their apparent believe that city government is the solution to all of Ogden's problems - instead of the cause - as some of us subscribe to. They also seem to have a mile wide blind spot as to the Little Lord's veracity and arrogance problems.
This doesn't make them evil, just wrong. Regardless of that, they at least have the cajones to stand up and fight for what they do believe in. That's the "American way" dontcha know.
I propose that we accept them back into the family of Ogden - after next week's 18 vote mayoral victory by Van Hooser, and after they go through the great teeth gnashing that is inevitable after a monumental crash like they will suffer, and of course only after they show the proper degree of repentance and graduate from the mandatory re-education camps they will be assigned to until the next election in two years.
Meanwhile please cherish them, as without them we would have nobody to drape our discontent and contempt upon.
Wood, Wood, Wood, Wood, Wood, Wood, Wood, Wood, Wood, Wood, Wood, Wood, and Wooly Wood for good measure.
Ahem, Ozboy.
ALL neoCONS are inherently EVIL.
The Geigers are neoCONS.
Ergo...
Ozboy:
Your erstwhile pal, Bob, is evil. He threatened my livelihood when he could have confronted me face to face after I accused him of something and left my contact information. He is not defensible. He and THE SKI IS BEAUTIFUL BLUE are not simply misguided. They can and do fight for gondolas, but the manner in which they do so is wrong. They personally attack the messenger, rather than debate the message. They are not men of character or substance. They are arrogant and comtemptible children.
THE SKI IS A PALID HUE
We welcome Ozboy's post. If he's admitted to our lodge, which is a possiblity, we hope he can remember not only our secret signs, handshakes and passwords, but also our primary mission of keeping the control of Ogden City government within our grip.
"They personally attack the messenger, rather than debate the message"
Wow, talk about a classic case of projection! The kettle calling the pot black!!
I may be wrong Jason, but it seems to me like most of what you write is in fact attacking the gondola messengers, not the gondola itself.
And remember,
THE SKY IS LONG AND SLENDER AND STRAPS TO THE FEET.
On this anxious day of waiting, I thought a poem would be appropriate…..
The new svh age is almost upon us
And yet the past refuses to rest in its shallow grave
For those who hide behind the false image of godfrey
shall stand before God!!! It has begun
The beginning of the end
Yeah.
Yeah... yeah, yeah
It's like godfrey, controlling your brain
Suggestive thinking, causing your perspective to change
They wanna rearrange the whole point of view of ogden
The fourth branch of the government, want us to settle
A bandana full of glittering, generality
Fighting for freedom and fighting terror, but what's reality?
Read about the history of the place that we live in
And stop letting corporate news tell lies to your children
OK: Gondolas are stupid. Lying Little Matty Gondola Godfrey is a criminal. Those who love gondolas and Lilliputian criminals may or may not be stupid. But they likely have an affection for onions. And, yes, I am a total hypocrite and pot who calls the kettle black. But I rarely pretend otherwise.
THE SKI IS REMINISCENT OF CAST IRON
Jay
Ozboy does not do secret signs or handshakes and is too old and addled to remember passwords. He also does not seek admission to your lodge, or any other ship of fools.
Jason
Pot! you say "pot"? Hmmmm, what ya got?
Rudi! Please permit me to submit a poem I wrote a while ago, which plainly applies to you folks in 21st century Ogden, Utah:
THE SECOND COMING
Curm! You ol' dude, you! Since I can't blog while working & can only blog during breaks from real life (if I'm not watching Monty Python movies, that is) I am guilty as charged!
I have as much a grip as a person can, with an eight year old running around, and old barns to clean out, and raccoons to chase, and bad apples to tote to the compost, and boxes to unpack, and dinner to cook, and dogs to wash, and ... ... ... ...
you get the idea.
I just hope MG doesn't sell the golf course to pay for new pipes so I can have clean running water to wash the dog!
there I plugged in something for the blog. Better?
;-p
TLJ, forever!!
Jason,
I was not trying to play some cat and mouse game with you to guess what my education or identity is, I don't care what you think, and besides I know you can't have a battle of wits with an unarmed man. The fact, that you can not see the relevance of my "inane babble," shows that you are not even remotely trained in the law.
It is obvious that you fancy yourself a very proficient and eloquent wordsmith, I've seen numerous posts in which you correct those of us in our use of grammar and punctuation.
Your writing rambles over hill and dell and it is quite obvious that you like to read what you have written.
However, each and every one of your posts lacks any depth or substance. Each one starts and ends with name calling with profanity intermixed for emphasis. You have become caught in your own web of "Ogden political slang" and you can say nothing more. "Geiger geiger geiger geiger geiger"
Your posts, portray you as a small and unhappy person, who had delusions of grandeur and has obviously failed to live up to any of them. You are angry that there are people that have and continue to do more with their life than you ever will and so you will resort to calling them names and stuttering insults. You are a fake a poser and nothing more.
"When a man uses profanity to support an argument, it indicates that either the man or the argument is weak - probably both"
You sir, are far worse, than any of the men you write about, of course, that goes without saying as none of them while away their lives writing about you. They are indifferent to you, while your hate only continues to elevate them.
Antilib....why don't you read to your children, dear? That way you'd be learning something, they would too, and we'd have a break from you. Just a thought.
also, Antilib, and Almost
look up humor, irony, or get a thesaurus and peruse that.
I read to them everynight.. especially from the classics like "The O'Reilly Factor for Kids." LOL
Don't worry I won't "waste" your time anymore, its fairly obvious the only people welcome here are rabid Godfrey haters (period)
The only thing humorous or ironic on this blog, Weary, is that you think you are humorous. Consulting a thesaurus is not going to make any of this seem more intelligent or witty.
To somewhat antilib,
What are you trying to tell us about yourself with the identity that you picked?
How did you come up with "antilib" and what are we to derive from that identity?
Somewhat Antilib
I assume, based on the content of your last post, that you are also "Antilib".
Now I'm not a psychologist although my mother and aunt both were. I was raised with the subject and I have studied it and been keenly interested for most of my life.
Based on my passing knowledge of the shrinking arts, I was naturally intrigued by your psychological profiling of Jason. I also find it amazing that you could apparently come to these conclusions in such a short period of time considering that only yesterday you wrote to Jason: "I haven't been here that long (on the blog), so I'm ignorant of a lot of the inside jokes..."
I am interested in how you came to these diagnosis. I am especially curious about your reasoning and background that would qualify your statement:
"Your posts, portray you as a small and unhappy person, who had delusions of grandeur and has obviously failed to live up to any of them. You are angry that there are people that have and continue to do more with their life than you ever will and so you will resort to calling them names and stuttering insults. You are a fake a poser and nothing more."
It seems to me that you would have to know Jason a lot better than reading a few of his bizarre posts in order to make such a diagnosis.
Could it just be that Jason has a strange sense of humor? a relationship with Captain Morgan? a deep and abiding contempt for Godfrey and his sycophants? In other words could there be some other possible explanation for Jason's ramblings than your damning profile of him? I mean could it be that he is just practicing for his Don Rickles comedy act?
Please advise as to your credentials and qualifications to support this diagnosis lest your credibility and integrity be questioned.
Jason may or may not be nuts, but if he is, he is our nut and I for one would appreciate it if you would treat him a little more kindly with your self proclaimed superior intellect and mental health.
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