We find a whole truckload of interesting stories on the pages of our northern Utah newspapers this morning. We'll highlight a few of the more interesting ones.
The Standard-Examiner, Salt Lake Tribune and Deseret Morning News all report on the latest development in the Emerald City election 2007 debacle, i.e., that the Utah ACLU is now investigating election irregularities. We're short on time this morning and have a busy calender today, so we'll simply cut to the chase, and incorporate the pertinent text from the ACLU's November 19 press release on the subject:
The American Civil Liberties Union of Utah will be looking into complaints it has received regarding election irregularities in the November 6th mayoral race in Ogden, Utah, as it considers potential action.It seems to us that the ACLU is the ideal law office to represent the interests of Emerald City citizens who might have gripes about their treatment during our November 6 polling. The ACLU has the necessary resources to properly investigate and prosecute election misconduct; and of course voter rights cases are right up their alley. We thus suggest that any Emerald City citizens who believe they have a grievance about their treatment at local polling places, to immediately contact the ACLU in the manner above-indicated. This is just speculation on our part, but we believe ACLU counsel would be particularly interested in evidence of instances where prospective voters were denied provisional ballots. Folks who were simply told they could not vote, and were entirely turned away at the polls without being offered a provisional ballot, are the single class of aggrieved citizens for whom election officials have no paper trail.
“We have received complaints of election irregularities including inappropriate use of voter challenges, denial of provisional ballots, intimidation of voters and electioneering at the polling places,” states Karen McCreary, Executive Director. “If substantiated, these actions not only undermine the trust and confidence Utah voters should have in the electoral process but they also violate the Utah constitution and state law.”
The ACLU of Utah is seeking information from any one who encountered problems voting in the Ogden mayoral election on election day or who observed incidents in which fellow voters were discouraged from voting.
Information should be directed via email to aclu@acluutah.org or by phone to 801-521-9862, extension 101.
We'll also highlight this morning's Std-Ex editorial, in which our intrepid Std-Ex editors examine ongoing efforts at the state legislature, to patch up our Utah campaign finance disclosure laws. Among the provisions being contemplated for proposed remedial legislation would be "tough" cash penalties for the misreporting of campaign donations. As we witnessed in the past election cycle, our newly-elected "Precious Charcter" entirely failed to report a $38,000 carry-over from his 2003 mayoral campaign on his initially-filed 2007 disclosure statement. The legislature's Political Subdivisions Interim Subcommittee is reportedly considering a new penalty of up to 5% for such misreported donations. We'll leave it to our gentle readers to do the math.
Finally, we'll direct our readers' attention to a story from today's Std-Ex business page, wherein Ace Reporter Schwebke gleefully reports that an "Ogden River plan [is] coming." This plan will reportedly be announced by Friend of Matt (FOM) Gadi Leshem on December 7. We'll note that it's unusual for California felony criminal defendants to be allowed to leave the state of California during the pendency of criminal proceedings, so we suppose Gadi will be the guy wearing the ankle bracelet. As an added bonus to Weber County Democrats (all five of you) who may wish to attend this announcement event, Ace Reporter Schwebke reports that Gadi will also have donkey icon Robert F. Kennedy in tow, presumably to reassure the lumpencitizens that Gadi isn't such a bad guy after all -- once you get to know him. Further down the article Mr. Schwebke reports that Gadi's River Project will be completed within seven years. If all goes well, we guess, Boss Godfrey's "bestest buddy" Gadi will be out of the San Quentin slam by then.
That's it today from us, gentle readers. We'll rely upon the rest of you to fill in the blanks from here.
Update 11/20/07 9:39 a.m. MT: Within minutes of the publication of today's front page article, Gentle Curmudgeon posted a main article length comment to the comments section of our lower article. We've uploaded it to our archives pages, and accordingly link Curmudgeon's expanded "take" on this morning's stories here. Consider it a Tuesday morning "two-fer" bonus.
Update 11/21/07 10:32 a.m. MT: This morning's Std-Ex has a followup on the ACLU story.
68 comments:
Also, be sure to check out the Des News article on same, where the Mayor admits that he knew about the Fowers list ahead of time.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695229148,00.html
Now, why couldn't he admit that two weeks ago?
Wonder if the public is invited- Outline of River Project Event
Nice googling, Googla!
Here is a link to the DN piece Cato cited above.
Nice catch, Cato.
Here's the key paragraph:
Godfrey, who defeated Ogden Councilwoman Susan Van Hooser, said Monday that he knew of the lists before the election but had not seen them. His campaign workers had heard rumors that voters who lived outside Ogden would be trying to vote in the Ogden election, so the lists were created to stop them.
Probably worth noting [again] how much more detailed the SL Trib story on the ACLU/Election topic is this morning than the SE's.
Jason Carey, mentioned in the Standard article is involved in whitewater parks around the west-
Council awards bid for Glenwood Springs whitewater park construction
I wonder what sort of plans MiniMayorMan has for our tax dollars. You can be sure Gadi Leshem won't be footing the bill.
The anonymous handle has been banned on this blog, anonymous. Why not play by the rules and try posting under another unique handle?
In response to the now deleted anonymous comment formerly above, I would like to offer a positive comment.
My wife and I recently went to Costa Vida at the Salomon Center. We had a 2 for 1 coupon. We had two large meals plus drinks for $10.50. It was pretty good food. We have another coupon and will be going again.
After that, we went in and played mini golf, again, two for one. So we got 9 holes for both of us for $5 which isn't bad. Of course, had it been regular price of $10 for both, it would have been rather expensive.
Nobody was at the iFly, there were two people at the water ride, the climbing wall was deserted, and the pizza parlor at Sal's Place still smelled like the V-word.
We went over to Fat Larry's Movie Hall, and except for two people in the food court it was totally deserted.
All in all it was an enjoyable evening. I enjoy quiet, untrammeled places and it seemed that the whole Sal's Place complex certainly qualified. For a nice quiet evening with not a lot of people around, look for the 2 for 1 coupons and visit Sal's Place.
You'd think this River Parkway announcement would have been a good boost for the mayor during the election campaign, but he had to wait until after being re-elected for Lesham to commit. What could Lesham be getting from this mayor that another mayor might not have given? What's being sold "down the river?" We know who is!
STILL NOTHING POSITIVE
I've never seen a more hateful, negative, degrading blog. WHY DO ALL YOU PEOPLE tear apart everything. WHERE ARE YOUR SOLUTIONS. WHAT GOOD IS COMING FROM THIS BLOG?????? NO WHERE IN THIS ENTIRE SITE DOES ANYONE MAKE A SUGGESTION ON HOW TO MAKE THINGS BETTER. YOU CAN SAY BOYCOTT GEIGERS ALL YOU WANT THE FACT IS MOST OF OGDEN HAVE BOYCOTTED THIS ONE SIDED BLOG.
Blogger from Hell:
This "naysayer" accusation gets tiresome, is all.
We've had 'em here before, I have posted my ideas for Ogden, others have done the same.
History has shown us that "drive-by" posters such as yourself don't want to debate the issues. Everyone wants to call names and ignore statements that don't fit their pre-conceptions.
If you want me (or others) to comment on specific things, feel free to make a specific post.
Here's an example: "What is the best transit system for Ogden, going into the future?"
That, my friend, we can discuss. Calling the denizens of this blog names ("hateful, negative, degrading") is not something worth discussing. We've done it before, and it doesn't lead anywhere.
The ACLU can investigate till the pigs come home and it ainta gonna make a hill a beans difference.
The little feller won a dirty fight fare and square and all the pinko's from the ACLU, together with their panties in knots, is gonna change that. Ya might say the little dude is bullet proof at this point. Ya also might add that the ACLU aint got any bullets in Utah anyway.
The Little Lord Mayor has once again proven that he and his Pretorian Guards are in fact above the law. The truth is whatever they want it to be.
Ah Ozboy, what you say may be entirely true. Nevertheless we're all decent and law-abiding citizens here in Emerald City, committed to observing all the civil formalities (such as contacting the ACLU)...
BEFORE we start rioting in the streets.
Blogger from hell:
Look a little further. The link at the bottom of Rudi's main thread would have led you to this:
That said, Mr. Leshem's clean up plans for the river may be a very good thing. Again, since so often the devil is in the details, we need to reserve final judgment until the plans for the cleanup are announced. Could be a very good thing. Could be disaster if "clean up" means turning the river into a channelized concrete-bordered commercial zone. That does not seem to be the goal here, but it'll be wisest to wait to see what they have in mind, specifically, before burbling too much....But... the river clean-up project looks like it might be a very good thing for Ogden City.
Sometimes, BFH, folks -- like you, perhaps?-- are so determined to see only criticism, that they don't look for anything else, or don't see it when it's there.
Ozboy:
Several points. First, you wrote Ya also might add that the ACLU aint got any bullets in Utah anyway. True enough if matters it interests itself in were largely decided at the ballot box. But they're often not. They're decided in court by judges... yes, even Republican appointed judges... who actually have some respect for the Constitution, and particularly for that part of it we call "The Bill of Rights." Remember, the ACLU has won cases in Texas... during both the governorship and the Presidency of George W. Bush. [Besides, I have to admit, the idea of Sharon being represented by the ACLU is just too delicious to not want to see happen.]
Second: You wrote The ACLU can investigate till the pigs come home and it ainta gonna make a hill a beans difference.
Again, not so. Presuming the ACLU finds actionable discrimination and violation of voters' rights and brings a case, it can matter a whole lot [depending on who the case is brought against and the outcome], not in this election, but in future ones. To which I would add, going into court to defend the right of a single voter who's been denied a free vote is worth it. Every time. Without exception. Even in Utah. Even in Ogden.
But it's very early days, still. So far, very few complaints have been lodged with the ACLU and their looking into it [which is proper; it's what they do and we all benefit from it] does not necessarily mean something will come of it. Not even if they conclude voters' rights were abused, if they don't think they can bring a successful case. Very early days. We'll have to wait and see what... if anything... develops. But I don't think their looking into the matters is pointless by any means.
Off topic but I don't care:
The US Department of Defense is demanding that US troops who got enlistment bonuses but who were wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan so badly that they cannot continue to serve, pay some of the bonus money back because they aren't fulfilling the full term for which they enlisted. No, I am not making this up. The story is running on the wire services now. Here are the opening graphs:
PITTSBURGH (KDKA) ―
The U.S. Military is demanding that thousands of wounded service personnel give back signing bonuses because they are unable to serve out their commitments.
To get people to sign up, the military gives enlistment bonuses up to $30,000 in some cases.
Now men and women who have lost arms, legs, eyesight, hearing and can no longer serve are being ordered to pay some of that money back.
I'm running some xeroxes of this, and next time I hear someone claiming Bush "supports the troops, "they're getting a copy of this story shoved in their face.
Jesus H. Christ: combat injured amputees being asked to give their enrollment bonuses back. It's enough to gag a maggot.
Great find, Curmudgeon.
Time to reprise one of our All Time Blog Favorites, we think. Ta-da!
The Chickenhawk Hall of Shame
Curmudgeon
Seems to me like you could make a shit load of money spinning these fanciful tales or yours to a big audience - sort of like that gal in England that wrote the Harry Potter stuff.
I especially liked your little story concept wherein Mormon Republican judges respected the constitution when it came to lawsuits instigated by Pinko's against our own whitesome and delightsome testimony bearing NeoCon overlords.
I got a hundred bucks that says this so called ACLU investigation goes exactly nowhere! All it will do is built the little Turkey's legend even bigger by his overcoming still one more obstacle thrown in his righteous path by a bunch of obstructionist nay sayers.
My guess is that he and Stu and Ed and the rest of the inner circle of Godfreyite leaders are sittin up on Nine laughing their disingenuous asses off at this, and all other efforts to discredit them.
Never mind that they are from the dark side, they know what they are doing, they are smart, clever and very well financed. In addition they got the whole Mo thing down pat. Like I said before, they are bullet proof in a one party place like Zion. That party by the way aint necessarily the GOP, it is more like the GOP, Priests and NeoCons party.
Rather you love em or hate em, these evil operators are good at what they do, they know how to sell a message, they know how to eliminate enemies, they know how to neutralize naysayers, they know how to wrap a pretty bow around a big lie and sell it to the public, they know how to control the judiciary and most of all they know how to spoon up pablum to the masses of empty bobbing heads at the polls.
The only thing this ACLU deal is going to do is make em look even better to their adoring adherents.
Any reaction to the Michael Vaughan op-ed piece in today's S-E? (I wonder if Vaughan follows the WCForum; it would be nice.) No one will be surprised at my saying this, but yes, Folks, please spend money on Historic 25th Street! I'm happy to report that the 25th St. GFC this morning was as lively as the Harrison location. An unscientific survey of the clientele showed many do not live in that neighborhood: one from Riverdale; two from North Ogden; one from Tipton, Indiana(!), etc. Keep up the good work!
The news on Gadi Leshem scares the bejeesus out of me. I see the announcements as red herrings for the Wal-Mart he intends to ram down our throats, nothing more. If RFK Jr. actually shows up, I'll be delighted but surprised. The Kennedys owe nothing to this reddest of states (even if the late Congressman Wayne Owens was once an RFK staffer).
Wouldnt it be funny if the State of California ended up owning all of Gadi Leshams Ogden properties that he bought with tax evasion money?
Curm,
I would probably look into the military bonus article a little more before jumping to conclusions. There are several factors that could be affecting these bonus return demands.
I find it hard to believe that this is not just a clerical error of some sort while finishing up the discharge papers. Being a veteran myself I know how the military handles paperwork, and often times when something gets messed up pay it can take years to fix. for example I re-enlisted while serving in Iraq for a $15K tax free bonus, yet when I recieved the bonus at the end of the year they had taxed it. I had to amend my tax return a year later after they had finaly fixed the problem.
Even if this is not just a clerical mistake, I can't see this sort of thing going on much longer now that word is spreading. Though I have not seen any other stories about this other than the one you referenced, so I don't think it is as wide spread of a problem as the story makes it sound.
Also it is more than likely the military did not ask for permission from the President when deciding where to make cuts in their budget, or did not ask for his interpretation of fulfilment of a contract. Most times that is left up to the people running the paperwork for the discharge... I have known several people who were kicked out because they were unable to maintain the physical requirements and still kept their bonuses.
I would personally like to see how wide spread this problem is first.
I suggest you hold your comments on what is going to be announced until you hear and see the exciting things that are in the early discussion stage.
Yes, there will be an event at the river's edge on December the seventh, and yes, Bobby Kennedy will speak about the reclamation of the beautiful Ogden River. But there is more ... it might be called a new beginning for a neighborhood. There will be a website, starting next week, that will encourage dialogue, www.dialogden.com and we hope that the sense of community, the desire for you to be heard, and the importance of community will encourage all of you to input your ideas, to share your enthusiasm, and to welcome good, and tasteful growth. Gadi Leshem is my friend and a tasteful developer, and the unproven allegations that were mistakenly foisted on his company, will soon be proven baseless. Hold your judgmental ways, come and shake his hand, come and contribute to my DVD about Ogden by permitting me to put you and your thoughts on camera.We can have some fun, and with Sharon, and L'il Lola, with Ozboy and Curmudgdeon, and all you other characters, let's start working together, whether we are native to the land or visitors from afar.
Will Leshem's Wal-Mart connect to "Ogden's Renaissance Village" via gondolas? Will red onions be made available in this village? Will gondola figurines be found in its requisite craft shops and boutiques? Will a scale papier mache replica of Lying Little Matty Gondola Godfrey's forehead be erected to facilitate screenings of high-adventure recreation films?
And I think perhaps a neuroscientist who has never attended a crime conference might be interested in this story:
Proust Was a Neuroscientist
Curm,
One more point I forgot to make... to me it sounds like this soldier was in the national guard (judging by the size of his bonus, and the organization his mother started) so his bonus is most likely being taken back by the state (who also paid him the bonus) which would explain why I have not heard any other horror stories regarding this situation. Just one of many possible situations.
Karl:
Fair enough, in re: your question about the extent of the problem. And no, I am not suggesting G.W.Bush personally signed off on the policy presuming the story checks out and it is a policy and not a messed up paperwork glitch. Nevertheless [again presuming it's a policy], it's the DoD's responsibility, and his appointees run the DoD. Not unlike the mess at Walter Reed, the buck stops at the top. Or should.
But I take your point about waiting a bit to make sure it's a general policy not a glitch. As I've said myself before, not wise to automatically attribute to malevolence what can as easily be explained by incompetence. Not an exact parallel, but close enough.
As for drawing a distinction between guard troops and the RA: sorry, that one doesn't seem to me to hold water. It should not matter a damn if a soldier is national guard or RA. If he's so badly wounded in service that he cannot finish out his hitch, nobody, but nobody should be asking for a refund on his signing bonus.
A note to "anonymous," -- a person who seems to think the blog rules don't apply to him.
At the top of the page we've posted this notice: "Readers please take note: Comments entered under the "anonymous" ID will not be permitted on this blog. Please pick your own unique ID, if you choose to comment here. Check our "Comments Policy" in the right sidebar for more information - Thanks"
The notice refers to our comments policy, which explains, among other things, that your anonymous "handle won't be permitted on this blog."
Within this article is another article, which precisely explains why we've banned the "anonymous ID" from this blog.
During the past day you've tried without success to post your spam messages to at least 20 different articles on this blog.
99.9% of the people who post here seem to be able to wrap their brains around the "anonymous" ID ban.
The question remains as to why you, and only you, can't comprehend this.
Either you're too dumb or too stubborn are the only two answers which seem to fit the facts.
We'll be happy to admit you as a commenter to our community forum, once you've demonstated your understanding that these rules apply to everyone, you included.
Oz:
Sorry, Oz, but there are Republican appointed judges who have ruled against Administration positions on matters of civil liberties and the bill of rights, just as there are Democratic judges who have ruled against Democratic administrations on the same grounds. Not all the time, not every time, but with some consistency over time and in many different circuits. That's not a guarantee that it will happen in this instance, should the matter ever reach a federal court. But it has happened and there are judges, of both political persuasions, who take their oaths and the Constitution seriously.
No bet. The odds are, at this point, that no case will come of this. That does not mean it's a bad idea for the ACLU to take the complaints seriously and look into them. It also does not mean there was nothing to the complaints. It could just mean there the group either found not enough of substance to make the fight worth it or, having found enough of substance, they believe they cannot bring a successful case to court. If you are suggesting that the ACLU should never examine any civil liberties claim in Utah or Weber County or Ogden for fear, if it comes to nothing, it will strengthen the entrenched authorities... well, that becomes a sefl-fulfilling prophesy that nothing will ever be done.
MM:
Most interesting point on the Lashem announcement so far, I think, was Southsider's above: clearly, the announcement was shelved until after Godfrey's re-election was settled. Which makes Southsider, and me, what part of this deal was dependent on Godfrey being in office? And why? Wonder if we'll ever know.
Rupert points out there will be a new website
DialOgden.com
I wonder if he'd tell us who is paying for it?
Perhaps it should be called "Gadi Leshem's Dialing for Dollars in Ogden.com"
Godfrey has been quietly telling we insiders that Gadi plans to construct 5,000 low end condos within the River Project area boundaries over the next seven years.
Sounds like an instant ghetto.
Imagine what this will do to your property values, fellow Ogdenites.
Producer:
You wrote: I suggest you hold your comments on what is going to be announced until you hear and see the exciting things that are in the early discussion stage.
Yeah, well, remember, we had two years of "the Peterson plan will be presented soon" and it never happened. And now you're saying the details of what will be announced in three weeks are "in the early discussion stage." You will, then, forgive a little recurring skepticism. We've been through this before. We shall see.
You wrote: There will be a website, starting next week, that will encourage dialogue, www.dialogden.com and we hope that the sense of community, the desire for you to be heard, and the importance of community will encourage all of you to input your ideas, to share your enthusiasm, and to welcome good, and tasteful growth.
Ah, Producer, if you say you want to encourage dialog, but then say the site will be for people to "share their enthusiasm" for what's being planned, it begins to look not like a site for some kind of public dialog, but instead an invitation to cheerleading. Which is it to be? Can't be both, seems to me.
You wrote: Gadi Leshem is my friend and a tasteful developer, and the unproven allegations that were mistakenly foisted on his company, will soon be proven baseless.
Well, of course they're unproven at this point. The case has not been heard yet, nor have the charges been dismissed. It's called the presumption of innocence and Mr. Leshem is as entitled to it as are we all in similar circumstances. To which I'd only add that, the charges being still pending, they have not been disproven yet either. And a friend's insistence that his buddy has been wrongly charged does not, even you must admit, carry with it much by way of disinterested and objective judgment about the matter. We're just going to have to wait and see how it all turns out in California.
Until Mr. Leshem's legal questions are resolved, one way or the other, I'm a little nervous about Ogden becoming deeply involved in his planned developments here, since if things go against him on the left coast, it could adversely affect his projects here, que no?
As for the only matter currently to be announced [it seems] --- his cleanup plans for the Ogden River in the River Project area: generically, it's a grand idea. Who could be against a "clean up" of a river? But still, we need to see what his view of "clean up" is: if it's a concretized channeled river to provide commercial bank space, I'm not sure "clean up" is the right word to describe it.
Reserving final judgment until the details, wherein the Devil always resides, are clearer than they are now.
Chamber:
I am not very familiar with real estate matters. [I'm one of those old fashioned reprobates who bought a house to live in, not as an investment.] What, pray tell, is a "low end condo?" If I bought a "low end condo," what would I be likely to pay for it, and what kind of monthly maintenance fees [present dollars] would I likely be paying? Just to give me some idea of what "low end condo" means. By way of comparison, would the Union Square condos be considered low end?
danny ...
"I wonder if he'd tell us who is paying for it?"
I am ... so far ... $9.95 from GoDaddy.com.
chamber member...
"Gadi plans to construct 5,000 low end condos"
believe that and you can believe the moon is made out of cheese.
curmudgeon ...
"it begins to look not like a site for some kind of public dialog, but instead an invitation to cheerleading."
Quite the contrary...enthusiasm comes in all forms, including constructive dissent ... have at it. You'll see!
Chamber Member:
5000 condos [at any end] on a sixty acre site gives a density of 83 plus units per acre. Maybe they stack 'em that high in NYC or LA. Not in Ogden, I think.
Rupert" "...including constructive dissent..."
Yeah we got it Rupie.
Seeing will be believing.
Rupert: Gadi is your friend??? Geez, are you a crook too? Our mayor is, so it's no surprise that he hangs out with indicted creeps like Lesham.
But, I thought you were an artiste.
Dec 7, you say? DEC 7???? A day of infamy..and that is so appropos for the unveiling of the two crooks' plan, innit? On another note....I cannot believe that President Bush had anything to do with the deplorable situation of brave and wounded soldiers returning their bonus money. This is an idiotic snafu from some lower level flunky. I imagine he's been canned already.
This is still America...where most people, (not leftists) admire and support our troops and want to give them the very best care that America can offer. BTW...did you know that Sears holds their military employees jobs for them? That Sears makes up the difference between the salary they made before service and give them full benefits?
I say, Shop at Sears...and tell the mgr why! I told an employee this today and she was very proud to be working for such a patriotic company.
Not everyone in America is out to screw someone else...though if you listen to the Cialis and Viagra ads, all men from the age of 30 up can't stop worrying about GETTING it up.
Give them a rifle and send them where they won't have to worry about what's below their belts.
Producer
I understand and appreciate loyalty to one's buddy. Hope that Lesham appreciates you.
However, there are a couple of little kinks in this California -vs- Lesham deal that are troubling. Perhaps you could put us poor turnip truck cast offs at ease on them.
It has been a about a year since Gadi got indicted. At that time he and his attorneys said it was just a misunderstanding that would be cleared up shortly. You are now telling us the same thing all these months later. What gives, why ain't the California authorities letting go if they are gonna?
It seems that there is a close time frame between Gadi allegedly ripping millions from California and Gadi investing millions in Ogden real estate. Why shouldn't we be suspicious?
And I guess the most baffling of all is why would a guy like Robert Kennedy Jr. want to be publicly linked to a guy under indictment and a Republican NeoCon mayor who would rape the city's public lands?
Cheers Rupert, and I am sincere in wondering what the answers to the above are.
Word is that Gadi recently bought some apartments on Reeves Avenue.
He must have big plans for the block, Reeves to Wall, 21st to
22nd Streets.
Won't it be ironic when the State of California winds up owning all the property he has been buying up.
Making way for the new Wal-Mart welcome mat to Ogden, that is really cool and sexy.
Seeking information:
With my water bill this month came a card announcing a "High Adventure Evening With Jeff Lowe, Wednesday, December 5th." It's sponsored by "Ogden City along with Ogden Climbing Parks." And Ogden Climbing Parks is identified as "a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization."
Isn't Ogden Climbing Parks the name of the business Mr. Chris Peterson was opening, involving the via ferrata routes in Waterfall Canyon and an ice climbing venue in the canyon [made by diverting water from the creek over cliffs near the falls]? Wasn't he last year trying to get a conditional use permit from the Forest Service and the County to open the climbing venues as a business? Has all that somehow now morphed into a non-profit organization? Or are the Peterson climbing operations in Waterfall Canyon something different from the non-profit Ogden Climbing Parks? Or have I gotten things confused?
And before anyone assumes the above is criticism, it's not. I just would like to know if the plan to open the climbing venues in the canyon as a business has changed, that's all.
The card does not mention a price for the [social hour, dinner, slide show and film screening at Peery's ]but it has a website and phone number at which you can order tickets. Presumably the fund-raising is to generate funds for installation and/or operation the "world's first Refrigerated, Outdoor, Year-Round Ice Climbing Tower," though that's not clear from the card either. Just an assumption on my part.
The event features "special guests" from the Governor's office, the Mayor's office, the Utah Office of Tourism, the American Alpine Club and Ski Utah.
Producer,
You say that Gadi is a "tasteful developer", can you tell us what other developments he has developed? Where they are, the size of the developments, when were they developed, whether he still owns them and how they have done?
More up front details on his plans for the Ogden River and the surrounding area would be interesting.
I heard that Gadi was facing similar charges in Mitt's state of Mass. as he is in Cal. Anyone know anything?
Curious asked ...
"More up front details on his plans for the Ogden River and the surrounding area would be interesting."
There will be a full disclosure, including plans from an esteemed architect, a river restoration expert, and Gadi, discussing all that might concern the residents of Ogden, on the seventh of December.
Come and listen ... venture your opinions ... pitch in. It's going to be great ... and come talk to me on camera. I will be wearing a baseball cap that says "Believe ... and it will happen"
Oz Boy and a you of little faith, Karen McCreary said: “If substantiated, these actions not only undermine the trust and confidence Utah voters should have in the electoral process but they also violate the Utah constitution and state law,” Mc-Creary said in a news release." That last part "they also violate the Utah constitution and state law,” Mc-Creary said in a news release." Is the key! They broke the law! No matter whether it's a misdeamer or a felony, when an elected official is convicted of either one, the penalty is removal from office according to Utah Law. I understand that there is proof of all that the ACLU was told.
The Council was told that those apartments/condos would NOT be low-income housing. Do they approve the plans? It will be interesting!
The ACLU has enough proof of voter fraud, etc. to move forward.
DiCaria is also looking into this election.
Won't it be wonderful if Godfrey, Geigers', Jo Packham, Fowers,and all the rest of the "team" who subverted the elction were found guilty of several violations"
The penalty is $1000. and/or jail time!
Hoo Boy!
Lyle and Hoo Boy:
Lyle quoted McCreary saying of the various charges and the law, "if substantiated." Then jumped right to "guilty! guilty! guilty!" We heard similar similar predictions of guilty verdicts when Ms. Littrell filed her suit asking Godfrey's removal from the ballot and we know how that turned out.
No reason to leap to conclusions. Here is what we know to this point: the ACLU has received, so far, two or three complaints about election irregularities depriving legitimate qualified voters of rights or equal treatment at the polls. It is looking into those complaints and others it might receive. Period. We don't know if others are contacting the ACLU, we don't know if the complaints will stand up on examination, we don't know if the organization will choose to press the matter to court even if it concludes rights were violated. If they believe there is not sufficient evidence to win, they won't bring the case.
We're just going to have to be patient. Predictions of guilt and removal at this point are wildly speculative... as speculativeas the posts here announcing with absolute certainty that Godfrey had violated the election filing laws and was going to be removed from the ballot. Be patient. Let's see where the "looking into" goes, and whether it goes anywhere, before making predictions about outcomes of court cases that have not yet been filed.
In any case, if the ACLU does proceed, it will almost certainly involve a suit against an individual or individuals or against some government entity like Weber County, seeking a remedy for the wrong it thinks happened. [What would the remedy be for a voter or set of voters whose rights were violated under --- what? the equal protection clause? --- by being singled out unfairly to jump through election hoops other voters were not required to jump through? Money? Not sure.] In any case, the ACLU suit, if it ever develops, will not, I think, involve a criminal prosecution unless the state chooses to act on its own. I think only some branch of government can bring criminal charges into court. Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong about that.
Hoo Boy mentions DeCaria is "looking into" the election as well. He can bring criminal charges. But again, we have no idea at this point if he's had credible complaints, and if so, how many, and whether his "looking into" will develop into charges being filed. Again, have to be patient and wait and see what develops. If anything.
I heard though the grape vine that Rep. Hansen is the one that is going to introduce Bobby Kennedy jr to the crowd on the seventh of Dec. is there any truth to that.
Crime going up!
Who cares if your house gets robbed? Who cares if your wife or daughter gets raped. Who cares if theirs a meth lab next door?
Us republicans are for "less government."
Only those dam liberals, wanting to do something about that!!
Interesting snipit in the SE this morning about Godfreys desire to replace volunteer members on the City citizen committees. He said ten years is long enough to serve, they should step down.
I wonder why he doesnt practice what he preaches? Hmmmm.
Curmudgeion,
You have stated what YOU know, that doesn't mean that some of us also possess hardly any information. Did you ever consider that some of us might be working with DeCaria and the ACLU and might have a little more information than you do? Or do you like being a pain in the ass and a big black cloud? Your constant belittling everyone else's comments is REALLY tiresome! Does it give your ego a boost each time you do it? Why don't you give people the benefit of a doubt that they know what they're talking about?!
Curm,
I aggree that no soldier (including national Guard troops) should have thier bonuses taken back.
By my statements I was just bringing out the fact that if he was a national gaurd soldier, the state would be responsible for setting the size and conditions of the bonus, as well as taking care of any discharge paperwork, and that is where they would have determined if he was eligable to keep his bonus or if they would try and take it back. Again if they did know all the facts and the bonus was being taken back then the state or federal government is wrong in doing so... on the other hand if someone filled out the paperwork wrong by giving the wrong explanation for discharge then this problem will be fixed and they need to train their paper pushers better.
But again the only reason I brought up the national guard thing is because it is important to know who is controlling the bonus payment or repayment, because the national guard comander n chief are the state govs first and president when activated for national emergency or war.
I was in the National Guard when I was sent to Iraq, and completely agree that this should be looked into and corrected.
George:
OK, what I should have said, maybe, is so far what the public knows. And you seem... as many do... to confuse disagreeing with some with belittling them. Belittling is not a synonym for disagreeing. If it was, nearly all discussion of public affairs here and everywhere else would stop.
As for this: Why don't you give people the benefit of a doubt that they know what they're talking about?! Of course there may be people on the inside... certainly are... far more knowledgeable than the general public is [and therefor far more knowledgeable than I am] about what is going on out of the public's eye. But I have no way to know if the people posting here under pseudonyms [as do I] are those people. Anybody can post damn near anything under any name on a blog like this one, and neiter you nor I have any way to know if the poster has any more information than the general public has, or less, is rock-solid right about what he or she posts, or is making it all up.
By the way, if you want an example of someone belittling someone on the blog, take a look at these sentences, recently posted by... oh, it was you: do you like being a pain in the ass and a big black cloud? Your constant belittling everyone else's comments is REALLY tiresome!
I'll stand by what I said earlier about what we know --- what is public information --- at this point. You've, so far as I can see, not added much of anything to that public knowledge.
Producer,
You addressed my comment but didn't answer my question. I'm simply trying to establish the credibility of Gadi as a developer and past history would be a good indicator.
You say that Gadi is a "tasteful developer", can you tell us what other developments he has developed? Where they are, the size of the developments, the development type, when were they developed, whether he still owns them and how they have done?
With out a doubt, a must read story in todays SE Outdoor section, "Two Wall One City".
It's got something for everyone, state legislators saying it as they see it, Fat Cats owner Nielson crying foul , threatening to pull money and complaining that his wall isn't making money.
Lot of good stuff in the paper but this is a must not miss.
A VISION of things to come for the Wreck Center.
I had my doubts that the ACLU look-see would amount to much, but now I am beginning to think differently. What changed my mind and ramped up my suspicions was Mr. Schwebke's front page story this morning in the SE which, sadly, is not yet posted on the SE's digital edition. The headline reads: Provisional Ballots Hot Topic: Weber County Clerk's Office Shuts Out Media, Puts Off Meeting With ACLU.
It's a remarkable story. It reports that the Weber County Clerk's office "refused to speak with any media Tuesday, following Monday's announcement of an ACLU investigation into complains of botched elections." The County clerk/auditor Alan McEwan says that "with the exception of a few poll workers, his office handled the elections with 'integrity and professionalism.'" To establish that beyond question, however, he announced that "it is our intent not to expend further country resources and taxpayer dollars to appease a very few disgruntled people who have their own agendas or self-serving issues." Uh huh.
Then County Commissioner Jan Zogmeister signed on to what is beginning to look like a county-level cover-up. She said the Clerk's "media blackout" was merely "the result of McEwan's desire to get back to work on the upcoming 2008 Western States Presidential Primary" on 5 February. [English translation: nearly a quarter of a year away.] Zomeister then went on:
I think there are a few detractors who wish the elections came out differently than they did. I really think they [the election staff] did a good job, and they did it under a microscope." She apparently said that with a straight face, not noticing that she'd just justified the microscope being turned off via a media blackout.
It is really disappointing that the recently elected Zogmeister and other county officials have opted for the Scooter Libby/ Richard Nixon defense: first you deny anything happened, then you claim anyone daring to ask questions about what happened is politically motivated, then you insist you are much too busy and important to take the time to answer any questions. And along the way, you blame it on the media and refuse to answer their questions too. But then, Zogmeister is a Republican so the Scooter Libby defense comes naturally to her, I guess.
Seems clear that an investigation into the provisional ballots mess looms larger for the County than for the Godfrey campaign. His campaign workers after all challenged 150 voters, but overall, there were 1735 provisional ballots cast.
One reason for that was that many voters' names did not appear on the voting rolls. And everyone has started pointing fingers at everyone else. Weber elections commissioner says the problem is with the state's voter rolls, which the county uses. Joe Demma, speaking for the Lt. Governor's office, says the state leaves the accuracy of the voter rolls to the counties. And Zogmeister, now in full "deny! deny! deny!" mode, says she's unaware of any problems with the voter rolls at all. But hey, when voters put in office an all-Republican County Commission, they can hardly be surprised by what they get.
I presume the Standard Examiner, seeking to cobble together what it can of its dignity, will soon editorialize about the County Clerk's shutting out the media and of [Republican] Commissioner Zogmeister's approving of that on grounds that the County Government she oversees is much too busy and important to answer impertinent questions from ordinary citizens and voters. The very nerve of those people!
With so many people refusing to answer any questions and trying to shut the media out, I am starting to wonder: what is it they don't want us to know? Kudoes to the SE for headlining the story.
Curm,
The front page story was by Marshall Thompson, not Scott Schwebke.
Thank you! Thank you, Rupert the producer! Thank you for making a DVD about OTown, Lying Little Matty Gondola Godfrey's forehead, Curt Geiger's onions, and gondolas! Gondolas! Gondolas! Gondolas! I will attend your shindig on December 7! Be sure to say, "Hi!" I will be wearing a cap that reads: I [heart] third-rate, wanna-be Hollywood, slobknob queens who make 3D "films."
OL: You're right. My mistake. My apologies to Mr. Thompson.
SE digital edition finally has today's paper up. The lead story on the election is here.
Oh! And I almost forgot: Jay Asquith Tom Moore Cavendish will be at my arm, wearing a mauve Ralph Lauren blazer! But you knew that already, since Cavendish's residence is where you stay when you drive your 1984 LeBaron convertible into OTown.
deep throat-
Thanks for pointing out the committee article in the paper. Bonnie Galbraith is being released from the Landmarks Commission and was quoted in the article. She is the same person who supported SVH and was quoted in the Standard last month criticizing the Mayor. If the Mayor is vindictively politicizing the Landmarks Commission, is there anything he won't touch? Glad we get four more years of this junior high school behavior. Lucky us.
I've been wondering how long Mayor Godfrey would tolerate the likes of me on the Ogden Trails Network Committee. I'm past his new 10-year limit, so I guess I'm now off.
A few thoughts:
1. Term limits are usually a good idea, but as deep throat has already pointed out, why not apply the same principle to the mayor's office? In fact, term limits are much more important for a powerful position like mayor than they are for a committee of volunteers who merely make recommendations.
2. I'll be interested to see if the mayor can actually fill all the slots that will be left vacant on the committees. In the past we've had trouble finding volunteers who were willing to serve.
3. The timing of this announcement, right after the election, is highly suspect, especially since several of the affected individuals (Galbraith, Vause, myself) publicly challenged Godfrey, or supported Van Hooser, during the campaign.
4. In the long run, this may be a good thing. Godfrey will try to stack the committees with people who said they supported him during the campaign--but once these people get an inside view of how he operates, he'll lose some of the thin margin of support that he currently has.
Curmudgeon,
For your information, the ACLU is gathering proof, as I write, that Godfrey's poll watchers violated just about every election law on the books. They CAN prosecute, it doesn't have to be a State or County Agency only that can prosecute. What I've seen of the State Elections Dept. and the Weber County Attorney's office (all men) are too comfortable and smug in their positions and don't have the balls to rock the boat. Thank goodness the ACLU in Utah is run by women (I've talked to three of them now)who do have more guts/fortitude, whatever you want to call it, than these wimpy men who are the ones that are supposed to have the balls. B.S.!! I'll let the women help me fight my battles any day! Take a look at the Ogden Council - who is that takes the Mayor to task, and now the women of the ACLU!
Dan S.,
I wouldn't count on Godfrey losing his new appointees support. He seems to always find ways to reward those who support him very well.
I've heard that he has some far-out motives for trying to stack the committees so that he can achieve his "visions" and Ogden's nightmares.
It will be interesting to see if Godfrey has anyone still living in Ogden at the end of another 4 years of his reign. Since the election, I've had several people tell me that they've listed or are in the process of getting their home ready to list. They're moving OUT OF OGDEN because they can't take another 4 years of the little puke!
lyle:
They [the ACLU] CAN prosecute, it doesn't have to be a State or County Agency only that can prosecute.
I think you're wrong about that, but let me ask around with some law school folk and colleagues. Happy to post if I got it wrong.
brett,
Godfrey uses both carrots and sticks to try to build loyalty among his supporters. Nevertheless, many of his former supporters are now his fiercest opponents. It's no accident that so many Godfrey opponents currently serve on city advisory committees--hence the motivation for him to do some housecleaning.
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