The Std-Ex Editors aren't done crying in their beers though; not by any means.
Check out today's letter to the editor, which obliquely demonstrates why these STD-Ex saps still haven't gotten the message that seizing other people's property for Wal-Mart ain't kosher:
Tuesday, July 26, 2005
This letter is to all those in Ogden opposed to Wal-Mart in "our city."
Take a good look around at all the vacant buildings and unkempt properties that surround us!
Also, notice the lack of shopping and chain restaurants in Ogden.
The reason is because our leaders and residents block anything beneficial that comes our way.
One would think that those who live in the Wal-Mart area would be thrilled to move up in the world, but we guess they and the rest of the opposition are content to live in the "armpit of Utah."
Roxanne Marocchi
Ogden
That's about it, folks! There's a segment of the voting Ogden City population that doesn't care a whit about private property rights, and the Std-Ex is straining itself to convey the public perception that such an attitude is "mainstream."
The important thing for dopes like Ms.Marocchi of Ogden, is that there should be more "chain" restaurants and "box" stores.
The great thing about Ogden, in my view, is the absence of "box" businesses.
It's not as if the Std-Ex editors don't know anything about non-chain restaurants. Check out the article that appeared in the Std-Ex a few days ago. The beauty of Ogden is that there are so many local owner-operated top-notch restaurants as reported in that article. Rooster's is but one of many.
It's neither a box store, nor a chain restaurant. What it is is a place where the imbecillic Roxanne Marocchi can get an owner-prepared national-class gourmet meal, and where the Std-Ex Editorial staff can possibly go to cry over a well-made and top-quality beer.
If the air-headed Ms. Marocchi needs to shop, by the way, there's always the Newgate Mall.
If the Std-Ex Editors don't like Ogden's unique culture, they can move back to Sanduskey, as far as most Ogdenites are concerned...
And somebody please inform the dim-witted Ms. Marocchi that Ogden is NOT the "armpit of Utah."
Leno Marocchi would roll over in his grave over this, I swear.
29 comments:
One of the things I have always liked about this forum, is that regardless the crudeness of some of the comments made, the baseline threads were well written, well researched, timely and informative.
How it saddens me to see threads here, that stoop to the current level of name calling. ie:
"STD-Ex saps"
"dopes like Ms.Marocchi"
"the imbecillic Roxanne Marocchi"
"the air-headed Ms. Marocchi"
I know how tempting it can be, I've stooped to it myself once or twice, after reading some vituperous dialogue that I found offensive, both to my stand on the issue, and to my sense of taste.
Is it not the basis of civility, to be able to disagree, without being disagreeable?
I hope it is a passing thing, like the flu, because I have come to value these threads.
Personally, I agree with the sentiment that overzoning and the prevailing NIMBY attitudes have led to stagnation in many towns.
My experience, however, is that overzoning usually works to the favor of chains. Chain stores often have the legal expertise and political clout that individual store owners lack. As such they are better able to overcome the idiocies of local government.
That Ogden has a larger base of smalled owned businesses is more of a result of a culture that appreciates such entrepreneurship, than it is a sign of overzoning.
Well, FORGIVE ME, Socrates.
Sometimes I'm too frank and direct for the average Utahn, I guess.
It irks me when people think it's okay to seize citizens' private property so that they can have more convenient shopping...or crappy dining at lo-cuisine "chain" restaurants, though.
When they do that, I'll react. I will call a spade a spade.
Don't get scared if this blog becomes a little "edgy" every once in a while, Socrates. That's the nature of blogs.
The letter I cited was way "over the top," in my opinion. My role, as I see it, is to be provocative, and to set people into "thinking" mode.
If you have any differnce of opinion on the substance of the article, please chime in.
I'd appreciate it though, if you wouldn't criticize my "style."
I'll show you the same respect.
You'll notice I don't play "nanny" to any of the other commentators here, by the way.
Forgive me Socrates but I think you are a boring sap. Give me Victer, Oz Boy and yes, even that idiot Lionel. At least they are interesting and funny. You on the other hand sound like a stuffy and arrogant self appointed judge and jury of what should and should not be on this blog.
Keep giving em hell Mr. Zink. Call em like you see em boss. I agree this Marocchi is a dope as are the editors of the SubStandard. Any one that believes it is OK to take private property and give it to private business for more tax revenue definately has their head up their ass. And any one who bemoans a shortage of chain restaraunts is an imbecile. Beside, the Ogden area is full of the damn chains and big boxes. Do we really need more of them? Do we really need another super walmart a mile or two away from two other ones that are already here?
My guess is that Socrates is the Mayor or one of his stooges.
In the never ending fight between Good and Evil, it's always nice to have compliant guys like Socrates on board.
It makes my mission much easier.
It is sad that there are people as clueless as Ms. Marocchi amongst us. Her understanding of business, government and our basic human rights is pretty dismal. What is really scary is that there are a lot of people around that are just as dumb. A bunch of them are on the Standard Examiner's editorial board.
Socrates?
Dumbacles sounds more like it.
Many of you are missing Socrates' point. He understands that there are two sides to every coin, but the ones who resort to name-calling and character smearing are the ones who look like the uneducated and ignorant fools. Feel passionate. Get upset about "injustice". Just stick to civility and your opinion will be respected.
I like how someone who claims to be "edgy" but sometimes goes over the top and gets called on it always seems to claim their job is to be provocative.
It is possible to be provocative and still treat others civilly.
Thin skinned people, those who must stoop to name calling rather than issue debate. And the interesting part is, they justify themselves for it. Something in their make-up is lacking.
Aggressive disagreement is one thing, and the true CHARACTER of a person is to be able to do so with civility.
I agree with Socrates, EC, and lancer on this one. Personal attacks are a fallacy and actually downgrade validity of any persons using them. However, I understand that it is the nature of blogs and message boards to use names and such. It seems like there must be a way to discuss without resorting to an extensive amount of attacks. But then again, that is one of the reasons there is little or no discussion on my blog and plenty of it here. So I guess the question is actually: What kind of place is this going to be?
Civility is just what the Lord Mayor wants! That way he can be civil back and continue to completely ignore the people he represents.
When the ruling class ignore the best interests of the ruled, then the ruled must aggresively assert their rights. Maybe all you civility sheep ought to read a little about Thomas Jefferson, you know the guy who wrote the Declaration of Independence. His theory was that for democracy and freedom to endure it must be cleansed periodically with the blood of the tyrants - ie the big guy on nine and his subservient city council. Fortunately we live in an age when the sword has been replaced by the pen (or computer key board) and we don't have to literally spill the little buggers blood!
You can be civil all you want, and they will continue to ignore you all they want. An old saying may apply here: "The sqeaky wheel gets the grease" If it were not for a bunch of "sqeaky wheels" here in the land of Oz, the Wizard would financialy ruin this fair city for many generations to come. These fine folks are patriots who are standing up for fairness and justice, and are the only thing between this administration of wanna be developers and what is right for ALL citizens of Emerald City.
Well there you go Ozboy. A perfect non-civil post without the name calling and such. PERFECT!
I can handle discussion along those lines.
Great flame, Rudy! Genuinely world-class!
I read that Marocchi letter myself yesterday, and the thought ran through my mind at the time that it had to be a put-on. It was just too perfect. "Air headed" was exactly the description I would use for it.
I wonder whether Don Porter and the other SE editors sitting up nights dreaming up letters like that?
The letter invited ridicule, and ridicule is what it got.
It's evident that some of your blog readers are all upset because your remarks struck too close to home.
Just because Ms. Marocchi has more money than you will accumulate in 5 lifetimes you rip into herlike a tiger you fool.
Good post, Marko.
It's interesting that some of the regulars get all hung up on form, and refuse to look at substance.
Once you bypass style, you have to get down to the fundamental question that Rudi raised.
Is it permissible for a moral people to steal property from some of their fellow citizens, in order for the general population to receive a tax break?
None of the youthful "progressives" here seem willing to address that question.
Anonymous: Who said anything about how much money this Marocchi ditz has? What has that got to do with her being stupid? Get a clue. If she is all that rich -AND- stupid, send her address will ya? I got a Temple in Salt Lake I want to sell her.
And Will o'the wisp: I agree with you on people getting hung up on form and missing the substance.
The only suggestion I would like to make is that even after the evil politicians steal a persons property the citizens still don't get a tax break. All they really get is bigger government and more bureaucrats. It's like a vicious cycle with never a tangible benefit to the people.
Seventeen comments, wow, you owe me big-time, Rudy
Apparently it is possible to be provocative and still be civil
If WalMart is a step up in the world according to Ms. Marrochi, I wonder what her house looks like? I don't know anyone, of even slightly bred sensibilities, who would enjoy living next to, by, or around any WalMart.
It also saddens me to hear that a "lack" of chain restaurants and stores is a bad thing. I have traveled quite a bit in my time; and if I never see another Applebees, Olive Garden, or Courtyard Inn, I don't think I would weep.
If there is one thing I love about Ogden, it is the lack of sameness and stucco... at least in my area. I have owned one "new" house in my time that happened to be a nearly exact replica of 10 houses in my subdivision. Everyone even had the prerequisite, kidney-shaped, flower garden in the front lawn surrounded by concrete edging all purchased from the same Home Depot.
Maybe it is a symptom of living in such a place that makes WalMart seem so attractive. If you live in such a subdivision, maybe your idea of being different is driving a yellow Ford Escape instead of a blue Ford Explorer.
A small wake-up call... do you visit the Fiji Islands for a glimpse of the WalMart? Do you scale Mount Everest to eat at Applebees? Do you visit the Alps and photograph the grandeur of a Courtyard Inn sign? What is so terrifying about being different than Riverdale or Layton or anywhere USA for that matter?
I like Ogden... because it is Ogden. Not because it is close to being like Riverdale. To witness what the chain store mentally does to an area, just visit Southern California. After seeing red tile roofs, stucco, and strip malls for mile after mile with nothing to break the monotony, you may just want to make the drive through Western Idaho and Eastern Oregon on I-84 for a break.
Awesome post, anonymous.
You've given us something that we should all think about.
Thanks for your contribution.
Kudo's to anonymous for an extremely well stated piece on this subject. Why don't you run for Mayor, Emerald city is desperate for someone with your insight.
Yo Rudi:
Great subject and comments! What's with these people who keep crying over a little verbal rough housing? It adds a little spice, dontcha think? Every one is entitled to their opinion and their prefered method of voicing it. I miss Viktor. Do you suppose they finally put him away in the looney bin?
A few comments on some of your regulars:
Bonnie Lee - I don't think Socrates is boring. He has been consistent in submitting interesting and well written opinions even if he doesn't seem to like the rough stuff. Other than that I mostly agree with your posts and I like your "In the face" attitude.
Kevin - Consistant smart input so far.
ec - Some real good stuff, some turkeys - especially when you keep getting high centered on form over substance. Lighten up and enjoy the grenades.
Utmorman - pretty consistant with good stuff. Apparently young and green but gives one hope for the future. Also seems too hung up on the rough talk. Needs a little work on his sense of humor.
Lighten up, it's a long road ahead of you.
OzBoy - consistant cutting critic of the city government. Good insight, knowledge and witty delivery. He even got me thinking of Ogden as Emerald City. I would add to your post on this string: If the colonist were polite and civil we would all be bowing to Queen Elizabeth and in a few years King Charles! Polite in politics is a losing proposition.
Marko - cutting and to the point. Seems to have this city government's number.
And Rudi - your great, keep it coming
Hey all you blog Nazis and keyboard queens/kings, whatever, maybe you can do lunch and make up in one of these fine chain restaurants or one of our many, many c-stores that are so prevalent in town. Seems like they've taken the place of the carmel corn and t-shirt shops that the old mall was known for. Wonder where Godfrey plans to locate those in his new recreation/health club building?
Mister Dignity: "...fine chain restaurants..."
There's an oxymoron if I ever heard one.
WTF planet are you from, anyway?
althepal, I always knew your elevator didn't quite get to the top floor, but man, you're a hell of a lot slower than I thought.
I agree with anonymous in philosophy about Ogden being "different"... Only one problem- No one's coming to Ogden if we stagnate with the current status quo-- Hey maybe that's why we need something like the rec center!!
(Just a thought)
Socrates is the Mayor's sycophant..
I'd have to agree with Socrates and anonymous on this one.
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