Sunday, June 21, 2009

Sunday Morning Emerald City News Roundup

A few Standard-Examiner hits and misses on a slow news day

By Curmudgeon

Another slow news day, so maybe there'll be space to look at a few of the SE's Sunday Morning hits and misses.

1. Hit: The long and photo-rich stand-alone section on Hill AFB, past and present. Nice job. The SE free on-line site has a long intro article by Mr. Trentelman, but you'll have to spring for the print edition to read the many many other articles in the Hill AFB section. It's worth it.

2. Miss [a little one]: On p. 10 of the Hill section ["The Sky's The Limit"] there's a photo of a six engine B-36. The caption reads: "A B-36 Peacemaker sits at Hill AFB." Well, there is a word they use in the Air Force to describe what the B-36 is doing in that picture [look at the shadow on the ground beneath it.] It's a technical term, but I'm sure the SE could have found a retired flier to help them out. The term is called "flying." It's in the air, guys. Landing but still airborne. "Sits?"

3. Hit: front page article headlined: "Admiral: It's Fantastic Here --- Mountains Lure Veterans to Retire in Utah Sans Tax Breaks." Well worth a read, and it highlights something I've wondered about for years [and mentioned a time or two here]: why the devil isn't Ogden promoted as a prime -- and I do mean prime --- retirement area? There are people who dream of spending their retirement sweltering in places where the season barely changes and for whom shuffleboard is their idea of getting exercise. There is a place for such people. It's called Florida. But for those who like their seasons to come in fours, who are looking for reasonable housing costs, small city environment, big city amenities close by and scenery and outdoor activities year round that just cannot be beat? There's a place for such people. It's called Ogden, Utah. I'm all for promoting Ogden as an outdoor adventure base camp for visitors. But we're missing a beat not promoting it as well as a retirement mecca, I think. As the admiral in the story says, there are those mountains....

4. Miss: the SE ran today a letter to the editor by one George F. Fleming of Farr West. Here is how it begins:

"My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the world. I hope you'll join with me as we try to change it. --- Barack Hussein Obama."

Mr. Fleming then goes off on a rambling attack on President Obama for having said that. Problem is, President Obama did not say that. The alleged quote was made up by a reporter satirizing both Obama and McCain as they campaigned, praising the US and calling for change in the speeches both gave. The quote then was picked up by right wing bloggers and talk show hosts, and attributed exclusively to President Obama. Snopes has the story here.

Recently, Mr. Trentelman has written on why blogs are not news sources as papers are, and one his reasons was that all sorts of false information gets onto blogs without anyone bothering to fact check. My my my. And here the SE prints a phony presidential quote without the slightest indication that it's not true. Evidently, no one on the editorial page staff bother to see if President Obama had in fact said what the letter quoted him as saying. [Doesn't anyone in the SE editorial offices know how to google something?] Nor did they ask Mr. Fleming to provide a source for the quote he insists is from President Obama --- before the paper printed it. Seems like some of the slipshod practices Mr. Trentelman finds in blogs have worked their way into the SE's offices as well. Not good.


Wm III said...

Happy Father's Day to everyone filling the role of Dad ...

Enjoy ...

Dan S. said...

Admiral Taylor was one of the finalists to fill the city council vacancy two years ago. Could he be preparing to run this year?

monotreme said...


Regarding #4, there was also at least one comment (with citation) explaining that the quote was false and was an urban legend. You would think that S-E staff might read the comments from time to time.

Newspapers have been, in the past, important "vectors" for urban legends, as described by the groundbreaking U of U sociologist Brunvand. With a few simple steps, these "facts" can (and should be) checked. Otherwise, the newspaper is printing "lies". I thought only blogs did that.

Curmudgeon said...


Right. I thought the same. If the SE editors read their own comment boards, they would have known the quote in the letter was phony a week ago. One of the advantages of posting letters on line long before they appear in print is, readers can [and often do] act as unpaid fact-checkers to catch things like this. And posters caught it, posted on it, and the SE ignored them.

Problem is, lots of people will read the letter in the print edition and think the quote is legit because they "saw it in the paper." Print journalists want to hang on to their gate-keeper role, they need to realize that role carries with it responsibilities. Seeing that bogus quotes falsely attributed to elected officials don't make it into the paper --- even on the letters page --- is one of them. Something as easy to verify as a purported quote on the record from the President ought always to be checked before the SE puts it into ink.


dan s. said...


Back during the 2000 presidential campaign, there was a Doonesbury comic in which Duke mentioned W's (alleged) history of drug use. As I recall, W had never publicly confirmed or denied these allegations. Don Porter pulled the strip from the S-E on the grounds that it made an unfounded allegation against a candidate.

I find amusing how the S-E occasionally is struck by these fits of fastidiousness, when most of the time, at least on the editorial pages, anything goes.

less than positive said...

On retirement mecca. Most of the folks I know agree "this is the place" what with the mountains and recreational opportunites, four seasons, hunting, fishing, hiking, etc.

But after a few years they come to realize that what is wrong with this State is the 100% of their income taxes going to public education (including higher education which pays you Sir) and in Weber County about 65% of their property taxes also going to public education, plus so many fees and licenses, fines, service charges, about 42 of them at last count, make this State a "mis-sake" for retirees. Especially in Weber County, annually one of the highest taxed Counties of the 29 in Utah. We can "thank Mayor Godfrey and the 3 Mormon County Commissioners who have no clue for that" say the State legislators since Weber County has so many RDA funded efforts and traditional corruption at the County level.

No! Crum. Weber County and the way it is and has been run for decades now is about the worst place in the US for retirees. And the State is a grotesque joke! As the legislators consistently pass legislation "friendly" to large families...a Mormon thing, and now also a Mexican or Hispanic Catholic thing also.

Utah has quite literally twice the birthrate of the highest third world country on planet earth at 22.6 births per 1000 women of childbearing age. Bangledesh has a birthrate of abour 11.3 and the National USA average is about 3.6 when I last checked.

Retirees don't like the feel and sound of screaming unsupervised kids everywhere you go. And they do not appreciate sales taxes nearing 8%, income taxes and property taxes as mentioned, plus a significant percent of the more than ten million collected for fees and the like all going to subsidize Mormon's who breed like rats having more children than they can afford. Now toss in the recent and recurring disease and viral spreading by ignorant and unsanitary and irresponsible populace and you have a retiree hell on earth.

As I say, most thinking retirees come quickly to realize this and move along to far better suited places who appreciate the steady economic benefits retirees bring with them.

Sorry for the less than happy and positive commentary but when the shoe fits. This AIN'T tha place for retirees and will not ever be unless the theocracy is completely removed from power at every level of government in this State.

Ozboy said...

If you want the thrill of a cold chill down your spine go back and review what the Admiral was saying he would do if appointed to fill the vacancy on the council a couple of years ago.

The man is seriously into power over people and complete obedience and subservience from his "underlings". No doubt a hold over from when he was an Admiral and had complete and unquestioned authority over lots of people. Necessary in the military for sure, but in the civilian sector it is downright scary as we have witnessed with Mr. Godfrey's clumsy attempts at authoritarianism.

If the Admiral ever did make it to the council he would most likely end up dominating it and bringing it completely into line with the mayor and his many ill conceived notions of how a government is supposed to work. Its a chain of command mentality that has no place in an open democracy.

The Admiral also was, and presumably still is, a big supporter of Kemp who is firmly in the Godfrey camp and has been the recipient of many millions of public money thanks to the Godfrey RDA free money machine, most of which was wasted in various loser schemes - Adams Aircraft included.

It would be absolutely horrid if the good Admiral were to run and win a seat on the council. It is my opinion that with a little power he would out Ayatollah the crowd that controls most of the Muslim world. He would likely be in that league I believe.

Lets hope he stays put at the helm of his fantasy air craft carrier in his own private little museum reminiscing on all his past glories.

Ogden might just be a lot safer with him at that post rather than rambling around city hall pushing his considerable weight around. He just might have all who post on the WCF in the brig at night and swabbing decks all day. On Sundays we would all be chipping the flaking paint off the hull of the sinking good ship Godfrey.

Anonymous said...

Never let anyone who wants power, to have it.

But hey, everyone should have a campaign moniker: The Maestro,
Commodore, The Admiral, Captain, Warhammer, Field Marshal, The Govern'ator, Colonel... saint...

Dr Bunsen Honeydew said...

st ste needs to go

dan s. said...

Less than positive,

Your birth rate statistics are incorrect. Utah's fertility rate is the highest in the US, but it's only about 50% higher than the national average: about one live birth per 12 women of childbearing age, vs. one in 18 nationwide.

BAT_girl said...

I am moving this comment from FRI MWC thread:

".............3. Hit: front page article headlined: Admiral: It's Fantastic Here --- Mountains Lure Veterans to Retire in Utah Sans Tax Breaks. Well worth a read, and it highlights something I've wondered about for years [and mentioned a time or two here]: why the devil isn't Ogden promoted as a prime -- and I do mean prime --- retirement area?......."

I realize promoting Ogden/ Weber is not your day job. But it is mine. Since 3.2007, in various iterations. Yes, I meta tag and market for Ogden/ Weber relocation and Ogden/Weber retirement. Check out my side bars:
EnvisionOGDEN/ Weber outDOORS @ characters welcome

All of you who teach @ WSU are part of my marketing strategy for OGDEN/ Weber. So thanks to the teaching staff of WSU for all your hard work!:
Outdoor Recreation and Environmental Stewardship Panel @ WSU

It is MUCH easier to market a small metro area like greater OGDEN (85,000 on this side of the mountains) when there is easy access to a 4SEASON outdoor facility like OGDEN VALLEY. As I sold AD SPACE for OGDEN INDEPENDENT to resorts yesterday, even in the rain, I can see why Wolf Creek has sold so many condos to former residents of MICHIGAN, for example.

The OGDEN/ Weber.cvb has been marketing Ogden/ Weber for relocation, tourism, retirement AND CONVENTIONS for years. Just ask them.

BAT_girl said...

Ditto above:

"......Evidently, no one on the editorial page staff bothered to see if President Obama had in fact said what the letter quoted him as saying. [Doesn't anyone in the SE editorial offices know how to google something?]..."

In the last week I have heard from different people around Ogden/ Weber that the SE is loosing AD revenue. Which means less STAFF on the editorial page to check facts of all kinds. Unless those of you who have been reading the SE for the last 20 yrs. think this is a well-established SE edit Standard.

BAT_girl said...

less than Positive........
".......Retirees don't like the feel and sound of screaming unsupervised kids everywhere you go......"

So don't frequent CHUCK'O RAMA.

dan s. said...


I'd be interested to hear your view on whether, or to what extent, the S-E should be in the business of promoting Ogden--to retirees or anyone else. And to whatever extent you think it should, doesn't an article of this type belong in the feature section, rather than on the front page?

Curmudgeon said...

Less Than Positive:

You wrote: Weber County and the way it is and has been run for decades now is about the worst place in the US for retirees.

We disagree. Most of my income comes from a pension earned in another state [I work only part time for WSU and less of that as I get longer of tooth.]. Had I stayed in the state in which I earned the pension, I'd pay zero tax on it. Nada. Not a dime. But we came here. Living in Ogden is worth it. Don't assume every retiree thinks as you do. Or as I do. [Some of them like Florida I'm told. There's no accounting for tastes.]

Ditto neighborhoods with children. My parents looked at retirement villages [no kids] and instead bought a house on a street that had families of all ages [as we did here]. They enjoyed the children on the block, as we do here. I can't imagine how dull it would be to live on a street or in a complex where everyone was of the same age, more or less, and there were no children around. As I said, preferences differ. Not all retirees want to live in a children-free environment.

Would I like my pension to be state tax free here? Hell, yes. Would I give up living within walking distance of trails up into the mountains to get that? Hell, no. As for property and school taxes, same argument. We're higher than some places, lower --- a lot lower --- than others. Besides which I [and you and everyone else in Ogden and Weber and Utah] have a vested interest in supporting public education. We all benefit when it's well done. We all pay a price when it's not.

Is Ogden for every retiree? Of course not. Does it have a hell of a lot to offer many? Absolutely.

So, compadre, on this, we disagree.

Curmudgeon said...


I thought it a good story, and right at home on the front page [particularly as it served as a hooker for the Hill AFB insert]. I didn't read it as promotion of Ogden or the top of Utah. I read it as a story about military retirees who've settled in Ogden or close and why. They're as much a part of the community as... oh, say, retired professors from other places. I don't see anything wrong with a feature story on them as a group and why they chose Ogden. [Why ex-admirals got interviewed and featured before retired professors.... well, clearly there's more to be said about that.]

Granted, twenty five years ago, you probably wouldn't have seen that on the front page. But 25 years ago, people relied on their daily newspaper for much of the national news they got. That's not so anymore. The SE --- no newspaper --- can keep up with websites and cable news networks for breaking news. Of necessity, everything national you see in the SE --- in any daily --- is yesterday's news.

And so the SE and other papers like it [small urban dailies] have to focus on what people will not find on CNN or their websites faster. And that means largely local news, and local feature stories --- like the one on military retirees in N. Utah.

Very nearly any story that's positive could be read, if one had a mind to, as promotion. As long as there is legitimate news value or human interest feature story value as well, and the promotional aspects are peripheral, I don't have a problem with it.

Curmudgeon said...


P.S. I wasn't suggesting the SE should take up promoting Ogden as a good location for retirees. I was suggesting Ogden City should.

Less than positive said...

BAT Brain, err BAT_girl...

What is a Chucka Rama?

In case you have never lived anywhere but in Utah... Utah is a freak'in nursery EVERY where one shops or lives.

How many unsupervised little booger pickers do you have? How many have either been run over, back over, drowned, lost, molested, or simply abandoned? If one is crippled or killed the parents just say "Oh well, We'll just have some more." What freaks of nature are these Utah parents? Why?

Utah, the land of flip-flops on fat women with nine kids in tow - sorta... Where drop kicking little unsupervised rats is a necessity in malls and department stores. Really nice BAT_Brain.

And before you say it...we are already making serious plans to escape the land of the Great Oz and to move back into America. That is assuming there will be any of it remaining after Obama and his supporters like yourself get through with it.

BAT_girl said...

Not Positive........

No offense, but as most of the regulars here know, I am a fook'ng NEW ENGLANDER. I just got here 12.2004. I am married now. BUT I am not a breeder. SO I too enjoy less kids, when I am not working.

I usually head for Causey Reservoir with my dog and canoe. And my husband to get the canoe off the car and into the water.

Be glad for the teaching staff of WSU. Most of them come from all over the globe!!

Curmudgeon said...

Bat Girl:

Someone who works at the SE told me the ed page staff is now at 50% of what it was some years ago. Half. None the less, getting public-record quotes from Presidents and other elected officials right --- even in letters --- is still part of the job. Or should be.

BAT_girl said...

Not vaguely positive.......

I forgot to include that I was just born in New England. I was educated in metro NYC. Which makes me a fire breathing liberal democrat. AND feminist. So........since I stay in touch with the rest of AMERICA, on a daily basis, I think the demographic you are looking for might be found in northern IDAHO. But then Las Vegas is in a real estate slump. Or Palm Springs?

dan s. said...


Thanks for the clarification. I thought you were saying the S-E should promote Ogden to retirees, but now I see that your passive-voice statement was ambiguous about who should do so.

Feature articles on the front page always bother me at least a little, simply because they're taking up valuable space that could be devoted to news. I don't see why the S-E can't put more wire service news stories on the front page, or work a little harder to cover local stories. Schwebke attended Wednesday's planning commission work session, but no writeup of it has appeared. Nor has he reported on the mayor's remarkable executive order regarding speaking in council meetings. And I think a follow-up article on Powder Mountain is needed as well.

BAT_girl said...

Curmudgeon said........
Dan S.:
P.S. I wasn't suggesting the SE should take up promoting Ogden as a good location for retirees. I was suggesting Ogden City should."

No offense intended to Curm or Dan S. BUT it is the job of the Ogden/ Weber.cvb to promote Ogden/ Weber for: relocation (to include retiree AND employees of Outdoor Sports companies, Hill AFB, other aerospace companies in the region). Although the CVB = Conventions & visitors Bureau........most of their employees are hired by people who work for WEBER County. NOT Ogden City. That allows the work of the CVB to be continuous, regardless of Ogden City elections.

During the rest of the tenure of the current Ogden City Government, it is pointless to ask OC to take over a job that the CVB has been trying to do. And are doing. In DEC 2007, I recommended to people @ O/W.cvb that they make a page on their web site that focused on "recruiting" retirees. When they did not do much, I started tagging my EnvisionOgden/Weber site, starting in NOV 2008, for O/W relocation and retirees.

Once the Ogden Independent web site is up, I will make sure there is a section of that site that promotes for retirees. A critical addition to the Ogden/ Weber demographic. Although retirees I met in Ogden Valley yesterday prefer the political shifts of Ogden City to the lack of political drive in Ogden Valley.

more less than said...

I can agree with less than positive, and if I could retire here on an Admirals or Generals pay with free health care and buying liquor on base instead of paying the high taxes then Utah is a great place to retire. The Veterans Hospital is the best socialist health care system available.

I live in a neighborhood with both older residents and kids. I do not shop at Wal-Mart with kids running amock and no supervision. I'm tired of lazy folks who park in no parking curbs at the super market and handicap spaces everywhere. Inconsiderate folks who bang their car door on your vehicle, no respect for other property.

I am also tired of being asked what ward I belong too, or who my bishop is. I do think retirees are looking for lower taxes, good health care, reasonable utility costs and insurance.

I'm also tired of retirees that have raised their children here and now complain of the state income tax they have to pay that they avoided with their large familes.

Less than positive said...

Speaking of media and advertising and such from the liberal NE and West Coast, Michigan, and the lack of political juices from the Ogden Valley (were I live by the way and I agree with BAT_girl on that point) the following deserves some dissemination...

The following information was taken from iCaucus

On Wednesday June 24th 2009 ABC will be airing an "informercial" for Obama to sell us his Nationalized Health Care Plan. They have billed this as a "Conversation on Healthcare" and yet they are not allowing the other side of the "conversation" to be heard. Just like the Russian Government run news organization TASS, ABC is becoming a state run news organization for our new government and they are not allowing any alternate points of view to be aired in juxtaposition to their broadcast.

We cannot stand idly by and see our media hijacked and become a state-run media outlet orchestrated by Obama's administration, nor can we simply let this National Health Care Initiative be foisted upon us without putting up any resistance. It's time for us to act. The last time we mobilized, the media tried to ignore and marginalize us. We will not be ignored! We invite every able bodied freedom loving American to rally outside of their local ABC affiliate TV station with signs, airhorns, and other noisemaking devices so that we get their attention this time. The slogan "Silent Majority No More" can no longer remain just a slogan, it's time to show that we are NOT silent anymore. Make it sound like midnight on New Years Eve in front of every ABC affiliate TV station across the country. Make them send their reporters out to cover it live. Continue the rally through their news hour so our fellow Americans can realize how many of us share the same view. We know that this keeps you up a little later than usual however, a little sleep lost now is better than liberties lost later. Unusual times call for unusual measures.

Curmudgeon said...

Bat Girl:

Well, BG, I see a lot of promotion from Ogden City of Ogden as the Outdoor Adventure Capital of the West [if not the Universe], and most of it seems aimed at a non-retiree crowd: the rock climbers and mountain bikers and extreme skiers --- think XTERRA. I don't see much of anything from the city touting Ogden as a good place to spend one's [obnoxious cliche' coming; be forewarned!] "sunset years." [Grrrrrr.....] Seems like most of the emphasis is on whippersnappers, not geezers. Just thought we [Ogden City] might be missing an opportunity by not going after the geezers as avidly. [That from a certified card-carrying geezer happy to be here.]

maybe not so positive said...

It is a slow day in Ogden..

It is raining, and our little town looks totally deserted.

Times are tough, everybody is in debt and everybody lives on credit. Except for Friend's of Matthew G. of course.

On this particular day a rich tourist from the East is driving through town. For local interest we shall name him R. J. Svengali.

He enters the only hotel on 25th St. and lays a hundred dollar bill on the desk stating he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs in order to pick one to spend the night.

As soon as R. J. Svengali walks up the stairs, the hotel proprietor (Rudi) takes the hundred dollar bill and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher (Bill C.).

The butcher (Bill C.) takes the $100 and runs down the street to pay his debt to the pig farmer (What will it cost us).

The "What will it cost us" then takes the $100 and heads off to pay his debt to the supplier of feed and fuel (Ozboy).

The "Ozboy" at the Farmer's Co-op takes the $100 and runs to pay his debt to the local prostitute (Bat_girl), who has also been facing hard times and has lately had to offer her "services" on credit.

The Bat_girl runs to the hotel and pays off her debt with the $100 to the hotel proprietor Rudi, paying for the rooms that she had rented
when she brought clients to that establishment.

Rudi, the hotel proprietor then lays the $100 bill back on the counter so the traveler "R.J." will not suspect anything.

At that moment the traveler from the East "R.J." walks back down the stairs, after inspecting the rooms.

He picks up the $100 bill and states that the rooms are not satisfactory...... Pockets the money and walks out the door and leaves Ogden.

No one earned anything. However the whole town is now out of debt, and looks to the future with a lot of optimism.

That, ladies and gentlemen, is how the United States Government is conducting business today.

If that doesn't scare the hell out of you, then I don't know what will.

(adapted from an email for local consumption)

BAT_girl said...

OK, RJ Sveng, so we hadn't heard from you for a while. YES, that was amusing, until you picked me, as one of the few females REGULARS here, to be your WHORE.

And Less than Positive.......I am not a reader of iCaucus. As a TV news junkie, I hear ADs like that daily. I forget if it is on ABC, but definitely on the local CBS affiliate. Considering the REPUBLICAN STATE we live in, NO SURPRISE.

So go for it. I just do not think you will find an ABC affiliate station in OGDEN VALLEY.

And thanks for sharing. I am sure all the other liberals reading and blogging here enjoyed it.

BAT_girl said... said:
".......I don't see much of anything from the city touting Ogden as a good place to spend one's.....sunset years...."

And now, OGDEN CITY Mayor Godfrey is working hard to close the Marshall White Center!!!!!!!!!

From a marketing point of view, I agree. That is why I keep, on my EnvisionOGDEN site, inviting out of towners to join the Ogden Sierra Club monthly outings. Lots of HILL AFB people on those outings.

Once OGDEN INDEPENDENT gets its interactive version of the WEB SITE up, it is likely we will make a section that pertains to OGDEN as a great place to well as kill yourself BOULDERING....... I will work on that section, when the time comes.

It will be interesting to see how OGDEN/ Weber stacks up, after the results of the 2010 census are in. And if they separate out OGDEN VALLEY tallies, we can see who they are selling all those condos to.

Less than positive, since you live in OGDEN VALLEY, can you give us some stats?

But.......aren't we glad we have the Standard Examiner and SL TRIBUNE to rag on. For not getting OGDEN right. Too bad Bernie DeVoto isn't around to join in on this blog. Much has changed in O-Town, since he left it about 1922 for Northwestern UNIV, then Boston, Harvard and points east.

less than positive said...

"Less than positive, since you live in OGDEN VALLEY, can you give us some stats?"

First, Bat_girl, no harmful intention about sticking you in the prostitue slot. Just having a little fun with the "characters" on this blog.

As for the above...I have friends who build and sell condos here in the Valley. They have been telling me that Nothing is moving every since last Nov. In seven months one said there have been only one building permit issued in the Valley.

We are in marketing obviously so you probably understand that the Realtors love to generate bogus BS publicity in order to scam potential buyers.

I checked on the Wolf Creek credit sellers personally enduring their 1950's style scam pitches. Only one other couple attended and we all had big belly laughs at their antiquated and insulting sales pitches.

So there you have it. All those condo sales in Ogden Valley to Michigan and California retirees is a myth created by overzealous and starving Realtors.

You might check with the County Recorder's office for better data.

Cheers and apologises for having a little fun at your expense Bat_girl (whoever you really are?)

Ozboy said...


I'm a bit confused. Is the "Envision Ogden" thing you seem to be a flack for the same "Envision Ogden" of recent criminal electioneering fame? If so, are you a mole for the mayor over here on the dark side?

Seems rather incongruent that a bright woman raised in NYC could be, would be, a team member of such a bush league little small town hustler like Matt Godfrey. I lived in the city so great they named it twice for eight years and most of the classy women I knew there were way to hip and perceptive to get involved with petty operators like him.

BAT_girl said...


Most regulars here who know me (Amy W., Dan S., Rudi, Curm, Bill C.) know that I too got taken by surprise re: = PAC for Mayor Godfrey and Abe Shreve. I just worked on the web site. I had no involvement with the formal PAC group of local business entrepreneurs.

Since a group of us who worked on the web site, which is still up, worked hard to get the site up and "meta tag" it into google existence, to function as an e-commerce site to sell tickets for the Salomon Center opening on 6.15.2007, I realized, going forward in fall of 2007, that the Name recognition was worth something. Who in marketing wouldn't. A local mortgage broker secured the domain name, and pointed it to Sun Valley Mortgage in late FEB 2007. Before we bought the domain name in early MAR 2007 for that web site.

Since I primarily worked on internet content research for, as well as site optimization and functionality, I realized that a REAL O-TOWN/Weber county web site that focuses on the outDOOR sports culture for all ages was A GOOD IDEA. Especially if it was optimized to hit google#1 on a regular basis. Since I am not a trust fund cadet or a web site builder, I choose to evolve a site I controlled on flickr, in the fall of 2008, into:

EnvisionOGDEN/ Weber outDOORS @ characters welcome

Since about JAN 2009, all images I put up are custom tagged & linked on flickr. As a result, my EnvisionOGDEN/ on flickr regularly shares google#1 with Anyone into web sites in Weber County knows that site is DEAD. For now. Abe Shreve chooses to do nothing with it. Which is fine by me.

As I continue to sell AD space for OGDEN INDEPENDENT, the monthly newspaper and soon to be interactive web site as well.........I can give some of my smaller AD clients, like DREX's (glass) Recycling, a quick WEB boost, even before their AD prints in the next MONTHLY issue of


Since DREX's Recycling does not yet have a web site, giving him some local play and chat was a good thing for him. With the picture I put up for DREX, on my EOWO site, I am now google#1/ pos#7 on a google: DREX's Recycling........

Each picture I put up on my EOWO site is custom tagged and linked, for consummate google optimization. As well, on main page for each image, in comment pos#1, I list as a block all the local web sites for OGDEN/ Weber.

YES, i just checked. I FORGOT TO INCLUDE WEBER COUNTY FORUM. I will amend that fact, tonight. Promise.

Having had lots of time to study, the name and site content, I decided that its name suggested a less-than-visionary demographic. Hence my name: EnvisionOGDEN/ Weber outDOORS.

Flickr is global and open. Custom joining each shot & post to flickr groups around the world provides traffic like you would not BELIEVE. However you have to bother to have a site ON flickr, in order to comment. I occasionally get rude comments about my shameless abuse of flickr for global marketing. As "web master" of my flickr site, I can also delete these rude comments.

Rudi laughed when I told him this site was on flickr. Now the rest of you can judge. I am not in the blogging business. Rather I call it advetorial.

Please note: I also sell/market Environmental Stewardship in Weber County:
Outdoor Recreation and Environmental Stewardship Panel @ WSU

Be sure not to miss NEXT YEAR'S panel. Yes it will be @ WSU. Some of same speakers. In the evening, I hope. Ask Dan S.

BAT_girl said...

Less than positive..........

Thanks for clarifying that you were not RJSvengali, having some fun. Sveng is very clever, so I would not have put it past him. He makes us laugh.

Thanks for financial updates for OV. Nobody's real estate in Ogden/ Weber is selling like Hot Cakes. For people buying time shares or condos in OV, THEY have to decide if they like spending time out there. On SAT in the rain, it looked like Switzerland and Scotland rolled into one. NO..........I do not sell for But in a bad economy like this one, I wish most businesses well.

As per my above diatribe for OZ on viral marketing on net, via "monetizing" social networking sites, I am a real entity. AND female, not a cross dresser. BUT watch out for the free market OGDEN/ WEBER promotional team, if you decide to spend some time on FACE BOOK. There are people who are part of the local marketing base who are having LOTs of fun. Check out Stacy Ogden for one. And maybe SKI Yeti.

WTF is wrong with you said...

Only Morons do Facebook, BAT-girl.

Try to get a clue.

And nobody in their right mind would claim any connection with Envision Ogden.

WTF is wrong with you?


Anonymous said...

I like facebook; it's fun.

disgusted said...


maybe you can clear some things up. who are the principals behind envision ogden? you had to get your marching orders from several people and the check for your services from someone or some group of someones? so who are these people.
seems even blaine johnson whos office was used for this organization can't seem to tell us who he got his money from.
hopefully your memory is better than his.

Ozboy said...

Bat Gorl

That sounds impressive and all but in my considerable ad experience it is not a good idea to be identified with a blackened or disgraced name or trade mark.

My unsolicited advice -

If your fingerprints are not on the criminally suspect "Envision Ogden", of Mayor Godfrey infamy, I would suggest you put as much distance between your current venture and EO as possible. If your prints are on that disgraced brand I would recommend you do your best to keep it quite and if that is not possible you might want to get the old white wash out and go to work.

Just my opinion of course.

BAT_girl said...

Anonymous WTF is wrong with you said...
Only Morons do Facebook, BAT-girl............
And nobody in their right mind would claim any connection with Envision Ogden.

I think Dan S. has proved, over the years, that people not born in Utah do not take such a circumspect position on Utah and O-TOWN/ Weber politics. Since I have no plan to run for any elected office, not even in the Ogden Sierra Club, of which I am a member, I feel freer to do...........WTF I please. When it comes to marketing and naming my marketing iterations.

All marketers/ advertisers know that a good BRAND is hard to come by. When we were collectively meta-tagging into google existence, in APR-May 2007, we ran into a viral battle with EnvisionUTAH. I even emailed their PR guy and apologized. Then went right back to my linking and tagging. Since all is fair in love and marketing.

Next time you have a chance to talk, in person, with Curm, Dan S. and Bill C., they can explain............ WTF (whyTHEf.......) should I care what anyone thinks about my involvement in EnvisionOgden. I was just part of the CREATIVE team who worked on the WEB site. I never got paid for my trouble and time. In fact, PRESTON MCCONKIE, the web master, was the ONLY PERSON who got a check from Abe Shreve. And I never asked Preston who signed his checks. You can ask Preston.

As a marketer, I study all iterations of social networking. And have been for the last 10-15 yrs. Especially Twitter now. 10 yrs from now, it will be called the TWITTER Iranian Revolution of 2009.

On Sunday, Fareed Zakaria/ GPS / CNN.........interviewed 2 social networking panelists on......" how the internet can bolster the power of the people, and how the social networking sites such as Twitter and Facebook (YES!! FACEBOOK!!!!) have been crucial for Iranians who wish to inform the world about events unfolding on the ground.........."

Curmudgeon said...


Since I don't twitter, don't have a page on Facebook or MySpace, don't own a Blackberry or IPhone or a cell phone, and have no earthly idea what "meta-tagging" is [its not an on-line game, I gather], this latest is a conversation I'm not well-prepared to enter.

Two quick points, though:

(a) we need to be careful not to cast the "guilt by association" net too widely. If Pizza Hut delivers pizza to a conclave of the Utah Republican Wing Nut Caucus and TinFoil Hat-Wearers Association, that does not make Pizza Hut part of the conspiracy.

(b) Bat Girl, it is unfortunate, but the brand "Envision Ogden" has, because of its sub-rosa political shenanigans, become for many of us, damaged goods. Fair or not by your lights, it is so.

Wm III said...

Curmudgeon wrote:

"Since I don't twitter, don't have a page on Facebook or MySpace, don't own a Blackberry or IPhone or a cell phone, and have no earthly idea what "meta-tagging" is [its not an on-line game, I gather], this latest is a conversation I'm not well-prepared to enter."

Curm - I busted out laughing ... welcome to 1968 ...

Your pseudonym is absolutely
perfect ...

I don't always agree with you but I do admire your vigor ...

Curmudgeon said...


A very tech-savvy friend suggested that "Luddite" might be a better pseudonym for me, until I reminded him that a Luddite was someone who went around breaking other people's machines....


BAT_girl said...

I laughed like hell!.........Not even a CELL PHONE?

"(b) Bat Girl, it is unfortunate, but the brand "Envision Ogden" has, because of its sub-rosa political shenanigans, become for many of us, damaged goods. Fair or not by your lights, it is so........"

Since I have been marketing to improve readership OF AND blogoBITCH on............... WCF, high and low in OGDEN/ Weber, not to mention to former (incl: Bernard DeVoto) and soon-to-be-former............OGDENites............I do not limit my audience to what you might consider..........the WCF Usual Suspects.

VIGOR.............HA!.........wait til the rest of the under 50 yr olds start weighing in!

Mitch said...

Here's my take:

Cell phones are like crying babies...

Better to let others deal with them.

Anonymous said...

Cell Phone will become communication implants by the end of 2015; and everyone is going to have one.

Yes, there will be a small cadre who does not; but since they will mostly be old and dying...

I live in the future.

Curmudgeon said...


On the other hand, I can see a time when the mark of status [and importance] will be the ability to be not reachable instantly and all the time. Someday....

Conversation in a Washington bistro, 2020:

WannaBe Power Guy: "Your cell never goes off here. How's that?"

Real Power Guy: "My people handle incoming when I don't want to be bothered. Like now. Another round?"

Anonymous said...

Good point.

Recently in Pennsylvania, a school distrcit considered requiring "saftey chip implants" for any children who wanted to use the school buses.
This is how implants for communication and financial transactions will occur: through parents wanting to protect their children.

I rarely take my cell phone, except when needed by tactical demands; however, I am first in line for any new transhumanist technologies.

curmudgeon wanna be said...

Old joke about a land line phone:
Old guy finally relents and gets a phone. one day a number of friends are visiting when his phone rings. It rings and rings and rings. Finally one of his friends asks if he is going to answer his phone. Guy says: "I got that phone for my convenience. Not other people's."

Curmudgeon said...


Love it! Thanks.

disgusted said...


maybe you can clear some things up. who are the principals behind envision ogden? you had to get your marching orders from several people and the check for your services from someone or some group of someones? so who are these people.
seems even blaine johnson whos office was used for this organization can't seem to tell us who he got his money from.
hopefully your memory is better than his.

Machster said...

Cell phone = electric leash

BAT_girl said...


"maybe you can clear some things up. who are the principals behind envision ogden?..........."

Rudi has done a wonderful job of archiving all the info that has been posted ON WCF, re: EnvisionOGDEN, since July 2007 on. I have read all of it. Why should I repeat what others have already covered here.

disgusted said...

i wish you hadnt avoided the question. id a thought more of you and your earlier comment that you are detached from envisionogden other than for the money you made off the web site development project.
rudi had done a wonderful job as you memtion but even rudi has not been able to flush out all the names. you could have helped but it seems to me that you are protecting people just like blaine johnson. too bad.

She's just another flake said...

What's with these people? Are their pictures of them with goats and sheep or something personal used to coerce people like Bat_girl from disclosing the names of the EnvisionUtah and FNURE low lifes?

It is truly amazing how some of these people think that they are being so politically adroit by dodging what true Americans consider their public and community duty!

Forget Bat_girl and any credibility she may or may not have if she does not perform her civic duty to be honest and forthright as a citizen of our community. We seem to have yet another Godfreyitte like, behind the scenes type,.... "I got a secret...and therefore I have some weird and twisted notion of power and control" weirdo here. Typical of marketing and advertising types from New Jersey or the NE. Do us all a favor and return from whence you came.

BAT_girl said... are looking good with a WIG on. Funny to hear you calling yourself a FLAKE.

I was the one who first posted stuff on WCF back in early JULY 2007. But it took the lot of you until 9.2007 to find it. AFTER I pointed it out to you.

I have emailed so much info to the WCF research committee. And they have posted all I know. I was on the CREATIVE SIDE / web site side........of I got paid NOTHING for my work. So if you bozos cannot re-read all that has been published here so far..........

Like I said earlier, go find PRESTON MCCONKIE in Arizona. He was the WEBMASTER of He went to all the meetings that ABE Schreve had. So he knows whose office they were in. AND who attended. He got PAID regularly for his work. Follow the REAL MONEY.

RudiZink said...

" are looking good with a WIG on"


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