Wednesday, October 29, 2014

Breaking: ACLU Wants Convictions Under Ogden Anti-gang Injunction Thrown Out

Bad news for fans of the ever-encroaching American police state, wethinks

Good news for Ogden civil libertarians this morning, as both the Standard-Examiner and Salt Lake Tribune report that "[t]he American Civil Liberties Union and a local law firm Tuesday filed a class action petition under Utah’s Post Conviction Remedies Act, requesting that the state throw out all convictions of individuals charged with violating the Ogden gang injunction in light of the Utah Supreme Court’s decision last year dissolving the injunction":
Bad news for fans of the ever-encroaching American Police State, wethinks.


Ozboy said...

Mr. Becker:
I agree that the way the authorities have dealt with this, with the injunction, is wrong, but what do you think the answer is to this difficult social problem if they don't go back and start again? Should society just ignore the rampant crimes committed by these organized gangs?

Bob Becker said...

Where did you find in anything I posted that we should "ignore" crimes committed by gang members?

We seem, judging from the SE, to arrest, try and convict gang members faurly regularly... as we should.

I'm not necessaily opposed to using injunctions with respect to gangs provided (1) they do not extend to the entire city but are limited to specific areas/ neighborhoods where gang activities are documented problems and (2) that no one can be placed on the injunction list w/o the authorities first presenting to a judge evidence justifying his or her placement on the list abd the judge concuring.

Ozboy said...

Given your brief initial comment that we shouldn't go back and start again on the injunction idea, which apparently isn't stopping the gang's criminal activities, I don't think it unreasonable to assume you meant that nothing beyond what is already being done should be done. I didn't mean to imply that you advocated we should "ignore" crimes committed by gang members". It was a question, not an accusation.

Had you elaborated, like you did in your reply to my comment, I would not have made that assumption.

It seems to me that your third paragraph in this response might be at odds with your initial comment that we "don't go back and start again", ie - re-do the injunction.

Bob Becker said...

The court's objections to the current injunction were mostly on procedural grounds, as I recall. I took "starting over"to mean (as I think Tenspeed's administration and OPD would prefer it to mean) restoring a city-wide injunction, names added by decree, after patching the court's narrow procedural objection.

But it's all guesswork at this poin Oz. We'll know one way or the other soon enough.

Ozboy said...

Mr. Becker,
"Tenspeed's administration"? I assume you mean Ogden's mayor. I also assume he must be a bicycle enthusiast with a moniker like that. If so, "Tenspeed" is a pretty funny nickname for him! Is it a name he proudly goes by, or is it one laid on him by citizen observers?
By the way, how is the new guy doing - compared to that last gondola luvin Day Glow Bowling Alley builder Ogden was saddled with for so long? (I have not paid attention to Ogden politics since Little Lord Godfrey slid out of office on his way to big time glory in the private sector)
And as long as I am assuming here, is it fair for me to assume that just rounding up all of Ogden's gangsters and shooting them, like ISIS does with it's enemies, is something you don't approve of?

Danny said...

I like the injunction. I'm about as libertarian as they come, and I have no problem with the cops rousting youths they consider to be gang members to stop hanging around after a reasonable curfew hour.

None of these guys are expressing an opinion by hanging around at night. Suggesting they have a first amendment right to that is on a par with other recent ludicrous misinterpretations of the Bill of Rights. There is no constitutional right to loiter.

Weber County: Fix the imperfections in the law and continue rousting these guys, and accept the community's thanks.

Bob Becker said...

Caldwell is a bicycle fanatic and pledged to bike to wk everyday for a year,all weathers. Life in Ogden at Cuty Hall has been... quiet. Some might say we traded King Stork for King Log.

As for your last suggestion re Junction City's gangsters, attractive as some might find it, I don't think we should do that to Republican municipal office holders and real estate developers. Jail should be enough of a deterent

Bob Becker said...

The inhunction doesn't ban loitering. It babs being out fir any reason. Driving to the store, pizza joint, etc. And yes, the courts gave, properly, considered freedom of movement to be a protected liberty.

And once again; you di not have to be a gang member to be placed on the list. If OPD says you're an associate if members, on tge lust you gi w/o OPD gaving to justify your being added with evidence presented to a judge.

You don't sound like much of a libertarian to me if you have no prob w/ OPD susending individuals' freedoms by decree--- including individuals who have never been charged w/ a crime, much less convicted of one.

AWM said...

Bob, what's with the spelling as of late? getting hard to decipher some of your posts

Bob Becker said...

Tapped that one out on phone. Itty bitty keys, fat fingers, declining eyes. Going to fix now.

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