This morning's Standard-Examiner has a John Wright story clarifying the political positions of the Ward 3 council candidates on three hot-button Ogden issues.
As to the Recreation Center project, candidate Doug Stephens takes the common sense position of the Ogden townsfolk, "I think the private money needs to take the initiative there instead of having the taxpayers bear that burden," he said. In contrast, Steve Larsen, Mayor Godfrey's hand-picked gang-of-six recruit, believes running up the public debt another $18 million, and guaranteeing it with 100% of the BDO lease revenue for the next 20 years, in reliance on the performance capability of a couple of small-time and possibly flaky lessees, is a good bet. Otherwise Ogden city will go "belly-up," Larsen says, in a truly odd (and possibly bizarre) non-sequitur.
Stephens is firmly on the record in his opposition to eminent domain abuse, whereas candidate Larsen, Wal-mart fan extraordinaire, is willing to "fudge" on his principles, and tread on the property rights of the common townsfolk, so long as it yields he and his neoCON money-grubbers a few more dirty tax dollars for the Ogden City government big-spenders. His ultimate dream, of course, is to pave over the entire Ogden downtown, and fill it with box-store parking lots -- like the town of his dreams -- Riverdale. He "loves the poor folks," he constantly reminds us, so long as they're willing to be forcibly cleared out of their homes and businesses whenever giant corporations like Wal-mart arrive in town, looking for a "free lunch."
For some reason the "gondola plan" remains a political issue, even though such a plan doesn't actually exist . Candidate Stephens takes the logical, common sense position on this: "If I had to make a decision today, it probably would be not to support it because I don't have the facts," he said. Larsen, of course, loves the non-existant gondola plan. "Nobody will come to Ogden on (commuter rail) without the gondola and the rec center," he said. No, I am not making this up; that quote is right there in the John Wright article, I swear. Besides, the gondola is the mayor's pet project; and the constantly-groveling Larsen never disagrees with anything the mayor promotes.
Could the choices in the Ward 3 race possibly be more clear? The voters can choose between Stephens, who exudes prudence, fiscal responsibility and common sense. His opponent, the ever-cluless dreaming and scheming Steve Larsen will make the ideal Matt Godfrey sock-puppet.
And what say our gentle readers? How many of the townsfolk who live outside of Ward 3 envy the folks there who will have the pleasure of saying "no thanks" to another potential "rubber stamp?" Don't be shy; and don't let the cat get your tongues.
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19 comments:
"Without a gondola and/or rec center, no one will come to Ogden on commuter rail."
I love downtown Ogden, but with all due respect, isn't this a nonissue? Can anyone cite any official statement by the UTA or other planners that the Ogden commuter rail stop was created to boost Weber County tourism?
Isn't the point of commuter rail to get people going to work by train instead of automobile?
Exactly, MM. These commuter rails do go both ways. They are not solely for the purpose of bringing people in. Mass transit widens the scope of available jobs for those not living in major urban areas. People living in Ogden could ride them to work, boosting the local economy and raising the per capita income, perhaps. Lots of reasons to ride them---not just a gondola and rec center.
Amy I'd like to see the ticket stub of the last time you took public transit anywhere! (besides your Europe trip for which I feel I have all but seen your photo album by reading all the posts about it.) Putting the commuter rail subject aside, I'd like to know what you have done for a better Ogden, an Ogden that will attract better jobs. You are the most liberal council member in Ogden's history and we all know how productive liberals are for society. Frankly you won the election because there was no other woman seeking a seat. You have been nothing but a thorn in the side of Ogden and forward thinking residents! I'm sick of hearing how this commuter rail will bring Ogden workers to SLC, (what a nice gesture!) I'd like to see a leader that envisions people lining up in SLC to come to MY HOME TOWN!
We wouldn't be in dire need of commuter rail if it wasn't for your liberal Sierra Club! We need a five lane Legacy Highway like 5 years ago!
Sean, you come across just about as loud mouthed and stupid as your name sake!
Amy is breath of fresh air in the cesspool that is our current city council. She and Garcia are the only two on that council with any compassion and dignity.
The rest of them are just simply arrogant trash.
The Legacy highway incidently will only go to Farmington! So it still will not be good for those millions of SLC people that are just dying to find a way to get to Ogden.
Your wish for a leader with "vision" appears to have already been granted. The Lord Mayor and his masked side kick Stu seem to be having visions on a fairly regular basis! And yes, that does include their frequent visions of grandeur!
Dumbass Troll flame post deleted.
The desperate Godfrey-trash are proving themselves to be political scum.
They're in the gutter now; just watch, as the plot sickens.
Ozboy, you're right on! Wonder where Sean H. has had his head the last couple of years? It's apparent that he hasn't attended any City Council meetings! Jesse is to be congratulated! He was in great form at last week's City Council Meeting! When Mrs. Jeske told the City Council and Mayor that they should be ashamed for deceiving the residents of Ogden about the RDA money going away if construction on the rec center isn't started by the end of the year, but could go to a number of different projects in Ogden, including the Union Station, the Marshall White Center, the parks or parkway, and Mayor Godfrey continued his lies by saying that the money would go away during his 15 minute rebuttal to patrons' comments. Filiaga was rude to almost everyone who had said anything, including the members of the Church of the Good Shepherd who were asking the City to consider selling them the land that they need. Jesse spoke and said that it was not appropriate to chastise citizens who voice their concern or petition the Council, and he said that the money that the Mayor had said would be lost, would not. It could be reassigned to other projects. Jesse proved that he cares about the citizens of Ogden and will stand up to Mayor Godfrey when he purposely misleads the people. We need to keep Jesse on the Council! He and Amy are the only City officials, and especially the Mayor, who use the common sense that they were born with and show a little compassion.
The Mayor has said on many occasions that the citizens of Ogden would never be financially liable in any way if the High Tech Rec center failed .
Now when it comes right down to the vote and borrowing of the money, we are in fact going to be liable for these millions upon millions of dollars if every thing doesn't go just exactly right!
Mr. Godfrey and the five council members who back him all the time have been lying to us at every turn. They are shameless and should be thrown out of office.
I am ashamed to say it, but I voted for Filliaga the first time he ran. He has been a great disapointment and a total embarrasment to the whole city. I am affraid his hand picked successor Larsen will just continue this disgusting trend.
I seem to remember Mr. Larson being thrown out of the Church a number of years ago for stealing money. Does any one know if this is true or not?
Seeing him at the debate made me sick to my stomach thinking he might win.
Mr. Stevens seems like a very nice and honest man. He only lost in this council district by a few votes last time. I hope every one here comes to the election and votes for him.
Thank you
Confidential to Elder Hannity:
Hear, hear! As a corollary, I'd like to see ANYONE in Lift Ogden produce a ticket stub for public transportation in their entire lives -- and yet they profess such wisdom in what Ogden's commuting needs might be.
I'm with you in wishing for Ogden leaders capable of creating enticements for SLC customers.
But we don't have to wait for leaders to act; we can create buzz for Ogden on our own steam. Brother Hannity, I'm confident that a man of your education and culture is already doing this. Surely you can demonstrate your resistance to dining out in Layton by producing recent and frequent "ticket stubs" from Ogden restaurants, and your support of Ogden attractions such as Union Station with appropriate receipts. And of course the art on your walls was purchased at 25th Street galleries.
Yours in Christ, MM
P.S. You've inspired me to contribute to the Sierra Club.
Actually, I don't think that the mayor is wrong about the RDA money earmarked for the Rec center going away if the project isn't started by the end of the year. (Don't flame me look at my name, I am not in favor of the Rec center but am just trying to clear up some misunderstanding about what the mayor meant).
From Utah Code
(b) Notwithstanding the tax increment percentages and time periods in Subsection (2)(a) and Subsection 17B-4-403(1)(m)(i), an agency may be paid additional tax increment for a period ending 32 years after the first tax year after April 1, 1983 for which the agency receives tax increment from the project area if:
(i) the additional tax increment is used to pay some or all of the cost of the land for and installation and construction of a recreational facility, as defined in Section 59-12-702, or a cultural facility, including parking and infrastructure improvements related to the recreational or cultural facility, whether or not the facility is located within a project area;
(ii) construction of the recreational or cultural facility is commenced on or before December 31, 2005; and
(iii) the additional tax increment is pledged on or before July 1, 2005, to pay all or part of the cost of the land for and the installation and construction of the recreational or cultural facility, including parking and infrastructure improvements related to the recreational or cultural facility.
This means that the part that would normally go back to taxing entities can be used to pay for the land or construction of a recreational or cultural facility if it WAS pledged by July 1, 2005, and contruction begins before December 31, 2005.
So since the money was pledged for the Rec center it can only be used for the Rec center, and if the Rec center doesn't start contruction by December 31, 2005 the money goes back to the taxing entities that would have gotten it. That is the County, the city, the sewer district, and any others the tax the land in those 10 RDA projects.
So the mayor is correct that if this falls though that money is gone as far as the RDA is concerned. And from one of the articles about this it said the RDA had alread collected 295,000 from last year. That money would have to be paid back as well.
So those who are calling the mayor a liar for this statement are wrong. I won't vouch for anything else he said though.
Thanks for the comment ARCritic.
Your thoughtful posts are always appreciated.
You might be interested to know that we also discussed this topic rather exhausively here.
Excellent article Rudi. I think that might have been before my time or I simply didn't remember.
Only in Ogden!
Maybe Bruce Edwards was right - "Ogden - The Dope Capital of the World"
Lets see - we have in the race:
1 Peyote Princess
1 reformed puffer
1 Un-repentant thieving, lying and X'd MoMo.
This is in addition to 5 sitting dopes already on the council!
I love it...
And one Jack from Farmington who likes to direct it all from outside
This is a story written today on The Good in Ogden blog! It's Great!
"In yesterday's Standard article written by the very professional, non-bias, check all your facts John Wright, it is said that Doug Stephens was beaten by Fasi Filiaga (who endorses Steve Larsen) 2 elections ago by a mere 3 votes.
Research done in behalf of this Stephens leaning article has found that Stephens was indeed beaten by Fasi (who endorses Steve Larsen) by 3 votes PLUS 137! Indeed it was a 140 vote margin. A 55% to 45% margin for Fasi! (who endorses Steve Larsen)
John Wright was asked where he got the 3 vote figure, and said it was given to him by non-else than Doug Stephens himself. I have made calls along with some others to David Greiling (John's manager) who said he supports full-heartedly, and stands by Johns article. It's apparent who the Standard has endorsed in this race!"
Okay, I have read this of arcritic's:
"...if the Rec center doesn't start contruction by December 31, 2005 the money goes back to the taxing entities that would have gotten it. That is the County, the city, the sewer district, and any others the tax the land in those 10 RDA projects."
and this of Rudi's:
"What will happen, in the event that the Rec Center project isn't commenced by December 31, 2005, is that current Ogden City tax increment dollars, and those to accrue in future years, will fall back to Weber County, in trust, to be disbursed under the standard statutory scheme that would operate in the absense of a local RDA: Schools: 50%; Ogden City 25%; individual county taxing districts: 25%."
and it seems pretty clear. The money will not be gone, but back in the Weber County tax coffers. And isn't this where tax increments sort of originated in the first place? Tax increments, as I understand them, are tax money that would, if there were no RDA projects, go to Weber County anyway. Isn't that right?
So we are in the same place with tax dollars that we would be if there were no RDA projects? Meaning that there would be money to fix the sewer, etc.?
Right? Or am I missing something?
Correct, Dian. Ogden city would still receive around 25% of the tax increment under the standard statutory scheme, even upon the non-initiation of the rec center project.
The other 75% or so would have to be shared with Weber County and the other taxing enties that you see on your property tax bill.
It's the "sharing" part that our Ogden city central-schemers don't seem to like.
That's interesting, Rudi. Very much so.
Has anyone ever done the math on this?
The rec center, we hear, is going to use tax increments "from 10 other RDA projects," including its own, to start the build out. Has anyone ever flipped this around and tallied the losses?
For instance, since the property tax money which should have gone to Weber County is going instead to the rec center, how much has been lost from Ogden City Schools? What would be the dollar amount that Ogden City itself would receive as its 25%? And the other taxing districts, what should they have had that has been put instead toward these projects?
Those dollar figures would make a really strong statement one way or the other, I would think. Either the amounts would be negligible, thereby strengthening the rec center's position, or they would represent a sizable cash infusion to schools, sewer districts, etc., which are in need of help. Did anyone ever come up with a figure on this?
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