Just as it would be madness to settle on medical treatment for the body of a person by taking an opinion poll of the neighbors, so it is irrational to prescribe for the body politic by polling the opinions of the people at large.
Plato
c. 427-347 B.C.E
We're not making decisions based on sticking our finger in the wind. We're making decisions based on what we think is in the best interests of the community.
Matthew Godfrey
Ogden council to take hint?
StandardExaminer
November 10, 2005
The advantage of public opinion is like that of the weather-gauge in a naval action.
Thomas Jefferson to James Monroe
ME 14:226
1815
In another city council shocker, the Gang-of-Six "delivered" for the Mayor last night, approving the $16 million rec center bonding, along with another $22 million in sundry and assorted long-term debt, and a pledge of BOO revenue as loan collateral. The mayor's rubber stamps performed predictably, with lame-ducks Filiaga, Jorgenson and Burdett in the forefront. The sitting council proved to the townsfolk yet again, even in the wake of their November 8 public spanking, that they don't give a dang what the voters of Ogden think.
This came as no surprise of course, to those of us who are avid Gang-of-Six watchers. Neither public opinion nor election referenda mean anything to mind-numbed Godfrey zombies. Jorgenson and Burdett had in fact publicly proclaimed their minds were already made up, several days before final council deliberations. They'll consider themselves "the annointed ones," the priestly neo-platonic "philosopher kings," even up to the very day they're given "the bum's rush," and are unceremoniously and summarily ushered out the city hall back-door in January. The result was really quite anti-climactic, I think.
For a succint report on last night's council session, you can read this morning's John Wright story.
And for an added bonus, the Standard-Examiner website kindly provides a truly weird video clip on the council session, including some classic Fasi Filiaga remarks .
I'm not going to go into a long discussion on this. We've been beating this dead horse on Weber County Forum for many months now, and said everything that needs to be said.
Still, I'd like to invite you all to post your impressions and outlooks, now that the rec center is all but a "done deal."
What are your thoughts, gentle readers?
Does anyone wish to do a post-mortem on this?
31 comments:
Quite an evening, last night. Like it or not, and it appears most people DO, we'll have a High Adventure Recreation Center, courtesy of Mayor Matt Godfrey and five members of the Ogden City Council: outgoing members Donna Burdett, Fasi Filiaga, and Kent Jorgenson, and still in place members Rick Safsten and Brandon Stevenson. Amy Wicks & Jesse Garcia voted "NO." One more 5-2 vote....hardly a shocker. One more time, and maybe the last, for the "Gang of Six."
So, except for the shouting and building, it's a done deal. Ground breaking, I believe, actually needs to take place prior to 1 Jan., 06, or at least some kind of construction type moment that obligates the RDA TIF revenue, thereby committing those funds to the project and vis-versa.
Plenty of action during the evening, mostly with decorum, except when some guy named David Allen broke from protocol and asked those with their "YES" stickers to stand up. He was soundly boo-ed off the podium. There's a clown at every event, and this one was no exception. Other than that, those for and those against were in good behavior and their comments were well crafted and soundly presented. In the end, after over 3 hours of listening to the public, the vote was cast and the rest, as they say, is history. A formality, actually.
The job now, as I see it, is to come together, toss out our differences, and work toward a successful completion of this project, as it has been represented. Boyer and Miller are alleged to have committed something on paper, other developers are said to be lining up, ready to go, and of course Fat Cats and Gold's Gym are champing at the bit. Hopefully the new council will watch this thing like a Setter watches a Pheasant, ensuring a timely completion with no costly over-runs. The day to day operation should be monitored to ensure friendly and above board service with rents paid on time. And then there's those to follow, as we've been assured. Hopefully they have their shovels in hand and are waiting to break their ground.
This is it. Ogden's future, ready to unfold on the old mall site. I wish all success and as Tom Petty sings, "It's Time to Move On."
Good luck Ogden!
"The job now, as I see it, is to come together, toss out our differences, and work toward a successful completion of this project, as it has been represented."
Good post, Enthused Citizen; I think you've summed it up nicely.
The die is cast; and it's now time to unite as a community.
There's been far too much bitterness and acrimony these past four years.
And I believe a new, attentive, citizen-friendly council, composed of townfolks with deep roots in our great city, will serve as a key catalyst for that.
Is it true that property owned by Ogden City is exempt from the property tax rolls? Does this include all the HUD homes it buys?
This exemption was mentioned at last night's meeting, and I would really like someone to clarify this.
No real feasibility study. No Miller signature. No Boyer signature. No real investment from the two benificiaries of this public give away. No keeping of the promise to not indebt the citizens. No listening to the voters of Ogden. Nothing to speak for this deal but a bunch of Yes buttons worn by a bunch of free loaders.
The Godfreyites, in one of their last immoral gestures, stick it to the good citizens of Ogden - big time for a long time.
This venal monument to the little twerps ego will be a stone around Ogden's neck for the next twenty five years. Even tho in eighteen months Golds and Fats will be out of business and so much road kill for the inept Godfreyites dreams of glory, the property owners and tax payers of Ogden will be taking it in the shorts for 40 to 50 million for many years into the future.
May the names of Godfrey, Sasten, Stevenson, Filliaga, Burdett and Jorgansen live in infamy. May the three remaining arrogant SOB's be thrown from office in two years like the other three were recently.
Hang on Ogden, we shall overcome. We shall free ourselves from the shackles of this incompetent regime. It is only two years from the election where we can finally free ourselves of the stain this evil Godfreyite movement has visited upon our dear home town.
Meanwhile I hope we can all come together in this monumental crisis that this monstrosity represents. Now that we have been stricken with this putrid pox let's all do everything we can do individually to make this thing work. Like the old saying goes: When givin lemons, make lemonade.
There is nothing I would like better than to see this thing succeed for the sake of all Ogden property owners and tax payers. Unfortunately there is very little that can be done for such a flawed idea. Maybe a little praying will help?
Coming together sounds really great.
The reality is that it will never happen as long as Ogden has a lobbyist primed to go to the legislature in January to repeal SB184.
It will never happen until John Patterson quits calling property owners in the 21st Street - 22nd Street area off Wall Avenue about selling to Ogden City for a Wal-mart deal.
It will never happen until Ogden City government starts respecting people and our constitutional rights.
Just a couple of points. "Enthused Citizen" says of the Rec Center vote: "like it or not, and it appears most people DO...." Maybe. Maybe not. I've seen nothing indicating that "most people" favor the project. Most people at the meeting? Yes. But most Ogdenites? We simply don't know.
From Citizen and Ozboy above come a new round of deuling predictions. Seems to me it's time for the predictions of both wild success or dismal failure to stop. The predictions don't matter any more. The project will succeed or it will not. We just have to see now how it plays out. Predictions either way from this point on are pretty much beside the point now that the vote has been taken.
Since the prevailing attitude blogwise seems to be "time to move on" [as if there were any other choice, ever], perhaps some thought should go into thinking about what "moving on" means, exactly. What other decisions will this, and then the new, council be making in the short term that we need to think about? And advise the members on? Are there changes to the way city government operates that need to be made for the good of any future plans, projects, etc and if so, what changes?
I can think of one: find a way to make Ogden's public cable TV channel into a true information source for residents rather than the mayor's personal propaganda arm. The Council could take a step in this direction by arranging for the channel to air all City Council meetings and all School Board meetings, live, as is done in many other cities. The city channel might also begin hosting a regular public affairs discussion program on which advocates for various proposals coming before the Council, or before the voters, could be interviewed, etc. This could replace the current "Geiger Interview Rerun Marathon" that only pretends to be a public affairs discussion show.
In general, permit me to suggest that a greater emphasis on visibility in Ogden City government [all branches] would be beneficial regardless of who is in office down the line.
But if we are all now going to sing the "time to move on" chorus, we ought to put some thought into what "moving on" means. Or should mean.
Well... you asked for comments.
Further deponent sayeth not.
Utah Constitution: Article XIII, Section 3. [Property tax exemptions.]:
(1) The following are exempt from property tax:
...(d) property owned by a political subdivision of the State, other than a school district, and located within the political subdivision;
(e) property owned by a political subdivision of the State, other than a school district, and located outside the political subdivision unless the Legislature by statute authorizes the property tax on that property..."
Link
Utah Code Section 59-2-1101 (3) The following property is exempt from taxation:... (c) except as provided in Title 11, Chapter 13, Interlocal Cooperation Act, property of...(ii) cities; (iii) towns... .
Link
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As Ozboy points out, there was much to be desired regarding the creative yet complex financing and other issues, such as Boyer & Miller being on paper and for the life of the bonds. But, nevertheless, we've got it. We can continue to wax eloquently and bayfully, debate the meaning of words like "appears," but my thoughts, and I speak ONLY for myself, are to shelve the differences and work toward making this thing a success. If we don't, and it fails, Ogden goes down like the Titanic. If it succeeds, maybe we'll make port.
When is the Rec Center slated to be finished? I thought I saw something in one of the recent articles that said that it was going to be spring of 06. I thought that was awfully fast. I would think more like late 06 or early 07.
I was also surprised to see that the city has done some road work at the Mall site. I guess the development plans / site plan / subdivision (?) was set quite a while ago?
You win some, you lose some. Two weeks ago, the voters were on top, today we lick our wounds. Kudos to the administration for getting a Boyer “representative” and another developer (couldn’t hear very well in the overflow) to at least verbally affirm that others are on board and ready to build along with the rec center. It made me feel better because verbal agreements are ALWAYS honored in Ogden.
I think it would be a good idea if we all do some serious word-of-mouth advertising over the coming months. We need this thing to make a big splash, and attract out-of-towners. Tell all your friends, family, enemies, and neighbors about the rec center and get them excited. But don’t spend all your money on the arcade, we need to make sure we diversify our “fun” money among other Ogden businesses, namely the Newgate Mall. The last thing we need is to drive them out of business the way they drove the old mall out. Anyone have any idea what a membership at Gold’s would cost?
What ever a Golds membership cost it would be a big waste if the owner of the gym Nelson is an example of the physical condition one would obtain by being a member! He looks like a blob of fat!! Make that free loading fat!!!
This is the same guy incidently that was crying the blues a couple of years ago about how outrageously unfair it was for governments to fund gyms in compitition with private companies! I don't know, but does that make him a disingenous two faced SOB or what?
Curmudgeon, thanks for your thoughtful comments and suggestions. I whole-heartedly agree that the Council needs to insist that Channel 17 is put to better use. I had planned to suggest last night, but ran out of time, that the Mayor use Channel 17 to educate the public about the high adventure rec center, since he thought the only reason we opposed it was because we weren't informed. I hope the Council members, the administration and the Mayor can see how properly using Channel 17 could solve some of the communication problems that the City has with its citizens. I will encourage televising the city council meetings, and I like your idea of also televising the school board meetings.
I will also keep my fingers crossed that Ogden doesn't have any major problems to take care of until some of the tax revenue, that we're told will come because of the rec center, starts filling the City coffers.
I want you all to know that I will now support and do everything that I can to make the rec center and the downtown redevelopment a big success. I am anxious to see things start to happen downtown. It would be nice to start seeing the empty stores start to fill up with small, unique shops and restaurants as Historic 25th St. has.
Let's all be positive and come together to make Ogden more vibrant and successful than she's ever been! I'd love to hear more suggestions of activities and celebrations that we can hold. How about having an "Ogden City Day" to celebrate the day Ogden was incorporated and became a city?
Email me at jeske4ogden@comcast.net with your suggestions. Working together, we will love the new Ogden even more!
Thanks for the property tax links, Rudi.
I interpret these statutes to mean that Ogden City is "a political subdivision" exempt from paying property taxes.
This is somewhat of a shock, if true, because I (very hazily) remember an article in which (I believe it was Safesten,) said something about the city having to knock down the mall because the property taxes were killing it, and that knocking it down would reduce those taxes. (Anyone else remember that?)
So if the city does pay property taxes, the following is off base, but if it doesn't, we may have a problem.
We have heard much squealing about how these city projects are necessary because Ogden doesn't have an adequate tax base to support infrastructure repairs, emergency repairs, or even its own operating costs.
If it is true that the city does not pay taxes on its property, this means that the city policy of property acquisition is partially responsible for the erosion of the tax base.
Doesn't it?
The City is responsible for eroding its own tax base.
The City is also responsible for giving away RDA tax increment to Mel Kemp's Gateway Center in the amount of $2.4 million when his project is a private project and not an RDA project.
Ogden is going to need that $2.4 million much more to pay on debts and repairs in the future than Mel Kemp does.
"....shelve the differences and work toward making this thing a success. If we don't, and it fails, Ogden goes down like the Titanic. If it succeeds, maybe we'll make port."
ec said it, and how true it is. We, the tax payers of Ogden, are taking a huge $50 million dollar gamble (under false advertising and representations by the mayor and his henchmen) and if it fails the good ship Ogden goes down. If it succeeds we will "maybe" limp into port!
Seems to me that in the real world if some one takes such huge risks then they have the potential of huge rewards. All the tax payers of Ogden can hope for is a break even at the very best!
Whatever happens it will be just like the old mall. It was an RDA project of 20 plus years ago and virtually no citizen or taxing entity ever benefitted one single dime from it! Every penny went into one private operator or another's pocket. The tax payers and citizens of Ogden got nothin but the shaft, (or make that the toxic waste site!)
Nothing will ever change as long as bone headed politicians fancy themselves as great captains of commerce. Just because they get one more vote than the other guy doesn't mean they have a lick of common sense or business acumen.
One solution would be for the city to return to the council manager form of government. There is a move afoot in the state legislature to have all cities of Ogden's size be this form of government. It is a great idea.
Ogden's real financial collapse can be traced directly to when the "strong" mayor form of government was instituted. We have had a succession of incompetent mayors every since, each more worthless than the last. The financial condition of the city is a direct result of this sorry parade of wanna be tycoons and their respective circle of sychophants.
Gotta go now, surfs up in the land of Oz.
If you had a failing city how would you bring it back???
Your argument thus far has been to leave it alone (at least no one on this site has come up with any better suggestions).
The other option is to build stores and attractions which would equal tax revenue to the city. That money could be used to invest in Ogden.
Logically the second option seems to be the best solution. Even the LDS church has seen fit to support the mayor by building high end apartments and buying more land to develop in Ogden.
If you have better ideas then what is currently being done then come out with it. So far every one who posts here just likes to bag on the Mayor. This is most likely stems from a personal dislike of the man whom you have most likely never talked to face to face. So please stop using this site like your very own bathroom wall where you write all your darkest fears or other graffiti.
If you have some answers lets hear them!!!
Thanks Dorothy. Where I was going with that is that Councilman Stevenson said last night that we will all be under a crushing tax burden unless something happens, justifying his yes vote with this, and my perception is that the city's developmental strategy may itself cause just such a burden.
Possibly, at some point, the city amassed so much property (which could have been developed by private enterprise or purchased by a residential owner but lay fallow because of future plans), and which it did not pay taxes upon, that citizen taxes were no longer enough to replenish the property tax fund. The amount of money from property taxes that could be used for infrastructure and services dwindled alarmingly.
The county raised property taxes because of the eroded tax base. We lost Spring Clean Up. We lost Firemen. We lost funding for the Marshall White Center. Our water system leaks all over the city and the sewers do not function.
City then unveils the Project, which the administration and council majority said we have no choice but to do since our tax base is eroded and we are losing. Perhaps in a land rich/dollar poor condition, it has to borrow money to do this. This money will be paid back with other property tax money in the form of increments----yet more money which could have gone into the property tax base but now does not. The city will own the Project and therefore no property taxes will be paid on it.
However, those developers and private property owners who mushroom up around the Project will presumably pay property taxes and create sales tax revenue and this is why this is a good thing. This will "jump-start" us and get us going.
But will it? And even if it does....
Will the tax base continue to be depleted in favor of yet other Projects, as has already happened with BDO now feeding the rec center?
And how long will this go on? Will we continue to see cut after cut in services and infrastructure as Project after Project marches on? Will the rec center's leases be used to feed a WalMart in the hopes of manifesting a grand plan?
Municipal strategy need not be a "Leap of Faith." This is not some mumbo-jumbo metaphysical thing. It need not be gambling. This is something that can be looked at and kept track of by advocates of all of us who live here (our City Council,) to see if this strategy is doing for us what municipal government is supposed to do.
Work for "the greater good" and all that, you know.
Thanks, Steve.
Evidently I may indeed be wrong with part of this, because I now see that various Ogden City entities are appearing on the Weber County tax list for 2004.
Somebody's ill-raised child needs to read the Weber County Forum posting policy before he gets his dumb ass banned permanently.
It smells like Mr. President around here again.
Capice?
Dian, I hate to add to your dismay, but the City does have another project that it undertook a while back. Does anyone else remember that the City asked for and was granted permission from HUD to buy the HUD houses in Ogden and fix them up and eventually sell them to low-income families? They are eroding the property tax base by taking these properties off the tax rolls and that is why one of my campaign issues was "Ogden City needs to return to its true purpose of providing public services to its residents, and not compete with businesses!"
I think it is a worthwhile project to sell renovated homes at the rate of one or two a year as the City has done in the past to low-income families that otherwise would not be able to own a home. But the City has made a business of this, cutting out entrepreneurs who made a living buying up HUD homes and fixing them up. These properties stayed on the tax rolls when private individuals purchased them. I plan to address this issue as well as the other issues that I ran on when I am a Councilmember.
I was encouraged Tuesday night when we viewed the complex that will be built adjacent to the rec center and that a number of the spaces haved already been sold/rented. This will add to the tax base as will the cinemaplex and whatever Boyer brings.
We don't have to wait for the Legislature to legislate that cities the size of Ogden use the mayor/city manager form of government (which it may not do). I was told that the initiative has to come from the citizens rather than the Council. If the movement is begun now, it could be placed on the next ballot and in two years when the Mayor's term is complete, we could vote for a mayor under the mayor/city manger form of government. Well? Are you just talk, or are you willing to put your butts on the line, as I did?
I find it interesting to look at organizational systems to see why and how they either work or don't, and the Ogden City one is a nice challenge, to say the least. I am still trying to work my way through this property tax question to see whether or not Ogden's property acquisition strategy has a negative effect on our tax base.
In looking at the law Rudi cited, and in looking up what a "political subdivision" was, and finding that it has to do with cities and towns of over a certain population, I concluded that Ogden City did indeed have a property tax exemption. I know that it has a sales tax one.
However, in looking around on the Weber County website, I found that the Ogden City RDA is listed on the delinquent property tax rolls for 2004 for over $20,000. Ogden City Corporation and Neighborhood Development are also present there with very small amounts.
One also finds the "Secretary of Housing and Urban Development % Wells Fargo Tower North" with fifteen listings. (Is this an honor or what? HUD is on the Weber County delinquent tax list.) I am wondering if these listings are the HUD homes.
Like Dorrene, I am against the city's cutting into the ability of the private sector to buy homes to renovate and sell or rent through its deal with HUD, (especially since the mayor himself was quite successful at this and one would think that the city therefore might encourage this form of private enterprise to strengthen our economic base,) but am especially against it now if whichever governmental entity owns them is not even bothering to pay taxes on them.
If, that is, it does indeed owe them. Still don't know for sure. There is the law, and then there is the tax list. Will have to do more searching about this, obviously.
The Council/Manager form of government was recently the subject of an article in the Deseret News, and there is a good page on it for the Orem City Government, which lists clearly the duties and powers of the Council, and Manager, and the Mayor. I am assuming more oversight regarding contracts and financial deals is possible with this system, and if so, I think it's a good thing.
Weber County Delinquent Tax Notices, 2004
Mayors To Lose Power? Deseret News, Oct. 25, 2005
Orem's Government
From recent postings, it seems that a push to switch from the mayor/council model of city government to the city manger/council model is under way. Or will be shortly.
The city manager model has much to recommend it. It's an old progressive era reform. The originators argued that running a city took a particular set of skills that you were not likely to find in the kind of people likely to run for the job of mayor and get elected. And so, they argued, the city council,chosen by the people, should hire a professional to manage the city, and to report to the council. The advantage was [allegedly] more professional management of city affairs, and that people would have a clearer understanding of responsibility: the Council could not say "they mayor did it!" since the Council hired the city manager. All responsibility then rested with the council in the end.
However,there are drawbacks to this model as well. One of the advantages of a well-constructed mayor/council plan is that each can, if need be, check the other. An out of control mayor can be checked by a council elected separately from him. [Note: that check is what supporters of the new "slate" of council memebers claim is what happened in the recent election.] And an out of control council can, in theory, be checked by a separately elected mayor. But under the city manager/council model, since the council hires [and fires] the manager,there is really no check on the Council's authority between elections.
Would the city manager model be a better one for Ogden? Maybe. I haven't thought it through thoroughly yet, and I want to hear a lot more discussion from advocates on both sides. But I am concerned that much of the drive for switching government models springs from peoples' unhappiness with Mayor Godfrey. Changing forms of goverment because folks are happy with a particular mayor [or council] is generally a bad idea. If the change is worth it, it needs to be so regardless of who happens to be in office. I can see,if we make the switch, ten years down the road, voters angry at a council and its manager demanding that we change back so the people can independently select a mayor to check the council's power.
So by all means let's debate it. But let's make sure it's a good idea on its own merits, and is not a kind of knee-jerk reaction to our having at the moment an arrogant, autocratic and [in my view] ethically challenged mayor.
At this rate we'll surpass that record setting "Guest Commentary" of mid-Summer, wherein WCForum was beset with comments regarding my Union Square article. It's good to see the activity returning to this blog, as here we find quality and robust debate rather than the straight-laced congratulatory theme on the other blog that reads like the proverbial "needle stuck in the groove"....the same old stuff, over and over again.
I'm lost as to where Curmudgeon was going when he regailed EC & Ozboy about predictions. I couldn't find anything that raised my hackles; nope, all I read was facts stated and some opinion about how the Recreation Center became reality. The question of "will it succeed or won't it" was merely that, a question, followed by the reality of what will happen if it fails, what will happen if it succeeds. We all wish it well and we should do all we can to ensure that it does. The consequences of failure are frightening; the consequences of succees are uplifting.
With the building and completion of this center, Godfrey has assured us that many business will follow. In fact, during the final moments of Tuesday's meetings, he stated that over half of the old mall site has been committed to outside developers and that an infussion of some $100,000,000 is reasonable to expect. Once this is under way, it is thought that the buildings that border the mall site will be rehabilitated and filed with tenants, and that good fortune should spread throughout the downtown area. It's happened in other cities. Why not here? We only have one place to go and that's "UP." Might even be a good time to invest in some downtown property, for once the mall site shows some progress, the surrounding property is bound to increase in value.
Dian brings up a valid point with the Ogden City/HUD agreement. The properties that Ogden City gets from HUD falls from the tax rolls and remains inactive through their refurbishing and sale. The same was not true when the small, private developers did "their thing" with these properties. The houses remained on the tax rolls, licensing and other fees were assessed, and all things continued as usual through the rehabilitation and sale of the foreclosed property. I've had some dealings with this new program and the City houses seem to be a bit more pricey than those of the private sector. The City houses are nicely completed, to be sure, the parameters of the HUD deal responsibile for that. And in some cases they're even better than the occassional "hack job" I've seen come from the private sharks who just want in and out for a quick buck. But that's the exception and otherwise the privately done houses are equal in quality and better in price. Also, the handyman who wanted to buy a property to fix up and move into has been left out in the cold.
This scenario is yet another example of Ogden City, Inc., the holder of some $186,000,000 in commercial projects throughout the city. Maybe Dorrene Jeske will re-visit this and the new council can take another look at the whole, bloody mess. I'm not sure that a government should be involving itself, to the extend that Ogden City has, into this arena, but it has. The figure is staggering. The RDA, which is the workhorse of this entrepreneurial enterprise, was not intended to do what Ogden's has done. It's main focus was to remove REAL blight and to then inject Infrastructure into the property, those making it attractive to the private sector for development. Downtown has needed some help, but I think the City has gone above and beyond the scope of the original intent.
Let's hope that the new council make-up can get a grip on this run-away machine and reign it in. My thoughts are that the entire developmental process needs to be re-visited, from the first stop at Planning to the last stop of "Occupancy." Many good and sound projects beckon the private sector, from the IGA Center on 24th and Monroe to the vacant lands that exist within the city boundaries. Plenty of room for a big box there, without running the people out of their homes because of socio-economic class and geography. Fair Housing applies to those already in place, in my humble opinion. Hopefully, the city council sees it the same way. Opertunities and options are everywhere.
Have a nice Thanksgiving.
Realtor on Deck says:
"With the building and completion of this center, Godfrey has assured us that many business will follow. In fact, during the final moments of Tuesday's meetings, he stated that over half of the old mall site has been committed to outside developers and that an infussion of some $100,000,000 is reasonable to expect."
Is this the same Godfrey that has told us for years that the tax payers of Ogden will never be on the hook for this ego monument of his? Is this the same Godfrey that would lie even if the truth was better?
If so, I sure wouldn't be in a big hurry to be buying up property down town.
The operative word is "might." The golden rule is: "Buyer beware."
Speculation is the game. Maybe, with the infussion of the three new council members, an infussion that, contrary to many's opinion that this will just be a reversed version of the old 5-2 power block because from LISTENING to their words and reading between the lines I find them to be autonomous and basically dancing to the beat of their own individual drummer, rather than being under the control of any one advocacy group or individual. A part of their plan is to re-engage and administer the "Checks & Balance Sytem," which will create some well discussed and well thought out and crafted initiatives, something that has been sorely lacking over the last several years, and keep the Administration in check as per these magnanimous projects, etc.
Unlike the sore "loosers," if you will, who backed the incumbents and the Valley Girl (can you imagine the "Wows" and "Dudes" and the "I'm searching for the right phrase that I wrote down earlier but seem to have misplaced," that would come from that scenario), I have faith that these newly elected council members will walk the walk, do the research, gather the facts, ask for and consider the input, look hard at BOTH sides of every issue, even if it means slipping into the opposition's camp now and then to get a feel of what and how they do things, and then, and only then, present their well informed position.
The Recreation Center's ultra-complex financial apparatus, as creative as it was, and it was that indeed, puts Ogden City at tremendous financial risk and the moment the vote passed, those involved had to go to work. Even though, at nearly 11:00 p.m. and to an all but empty council chambers, Glasmann made some very interesting comments. He sent a message to the council and the Mayor, which were both comforting and encouraging. He suggested that everyone shelve their differences and work toward the success of this project, reminding all that the new council was now custodial in nature and as stewards they'll be keeping an eye on the building and completion of the recreation center and then the day to day operation of it, doing their utmost to ENSURE that the project will be executed in the way it has been represented, such as no cost over-runs, a timely completion, and, once up and running, friendly service and rents paid on time, et al.
Indeed, it is time to put our difference aside and work for a successful venture, for the ramifications of failure are so detrimental that the only dollars Ogden could expect to pull in would be from those who pull off of I-15 to visit Utah's new "Ghost Town," just like the one they have somewhere near Barstow, California.
Sorry, but somehow I got off the real estate purchase thing, that seems somewhat tempting to me, but hey, it's Thanksgiving, and I have a tendancy to keep piling stuff on my plate. Enjoy yours, and to those who continue to whine about the election results, remember, the less than 7% of the voters who elected the current council some years back was significant to you then, so maybe the nearly 20% of the voters who elected the new council members should maybe be given the same accord.
But then, this is politics, and absolutely NOTHING that happens here surprises me.
PAYSON (AP) — Payson officials are looking at a number of options to replace or redo the city's 30-year-old pool, including building a recreation center.
But Dennis Thomas, whose family owns Dumbbells, a power-lifting gym in Payson, said municipal recreation centers nationwide are losing money, even in big cities..."
"...City officials said about 80 percent of the residents responding to a mailed survey favored a recreation center..."
"...A recreation center also could thrust the city into competition with a private venture..."
Etc.
Can the state of the art Payson Gondola be far behind???
More here:
Cost of recreation center worries Payson residents, Deseret News, 25 November, 2005
The Payson Gondola....has a kind of familiar "ring" to it, doesn't it? Just think, it could be "the only thing like it in the world. It could link to light rail, which links to Ogden, which links to downtown, which links to the college, which links to Malin's Basin, which eventually links to Snow Basin."
Gee-zust Web! From Payson to Snow Basin, in a few easy LINKS!
With a little weight lifting, bowling and surfing thrown in. Maybe a night in the new hotel.
GAWD-A-MIGHTY!
It will put them on the map, I am sure.
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