Excerpts from this morning's Salt Lake Tribune story:
Rising tension in Ogden over police and firefighter pay raises and free-speech rights has City Council members ready to step into the fray.-------------
"Something has to be done," said Amy Wicks, vice chairwoman of the council. Councilmen Bill Glasmann and Rick Safsten agreed.
"This is not good. This is a black eye on everyone: the council, the administration, the police and now the public is affected," Glasmann said.
"This has gone from a disagreement at the bargaining table to too many conflicts and bitterness," Safsten said. "I'm extremely concerned about the status of things."
However, Safsten said he has confidence the chief acted properly. "I have confidence in Chief Greiner," he said.
"I'm getting calls and e-mails and people saying you can't just stand by while the mayor and chief of police are walking all over the police officers," Wicks said. "People think officer Jones ought to be able to express his opinion and his wife should be able to express an opinion."
Council contact information is available in the Weber County Forum "Government Toolkit," located at the top of our left sidebar. Keep the pressure on our City Council to treat Ogden's Finest fairly. Demand pay equity for our firefighters and police officers, and urge the Council to set up an independent investigation for Officer Matt Jones. Ogden Police Officers have gone out on a limb to inform the citizens of Emerald City about the existence of Boss Godfrey's traffic citation quota policy. We Townsfolk are therefore obliged, we believe, to stand in solidarity with our public safety officers, and to do our part, by vocally letting the council know exactly what we think about this administration's shabby and cold-hearted practices.
And a Weber County Forum "tip of the hat" to Kristen Moulton for scooping the Standard-Examiner yet again.
Update 8/4/06 2:39 p.m. MT: Readers of the KSL News website are having another field day, commenting on today's brand-new Boss Godfrey Super-sleuth story installment. For a few good laughs (about 70 so far,) be sure to check out the KSL Community Comment Board.
45 comments:
After reading the previous blogg. I believe that Jon Greiner stepped on a land mine this time.
The way that Godfrey and Greiner handled the Van Bill board incident just points out what the Firefighters and Police have been saying for the past six years. The Godfrey administration has bullied us around for way too long; we are not going to take it any longer.
The Firefighters and Police would like to thank the concerned citizens and especially our humble Blogmeister along with several others associated with him. Without your voices and help getting the word out, we would still be in the dark ages with this administration.
Only now can we see light at the end of the tunnel, I feel change in the air, and sense that the Council will come to their senses and fix the wrong doings by the vindictive Godfrey administration.
Once again, a sincere thanks.
Safesten really needs to do his homework. The Chief broke the law.
How can anyone have confidence in a Chief the breaks the law? How can you have confidence in a Chief that just keeps on blabbing, digging a deeper hole?
Incompetent, not worthy of being either a public servant or a State Senator.
Did the Chief really break the law or did your horse not win in the last political primary? I fear that too many of the accusations against Greiner are fueled by political hacks instead of citizens truly concerned about integrity. People argue about the timing of Officer Jones' suspension, but you could also argue that the complaints and accusations against Greiner are also politically timed. Why would Greiner stick his neck out on something that is clearly an issue between the adminstration, the council, and the police officers. Greiner has absolutely no involvement in the employee negotiations. Neither does Chief Mathieu (sp?), by the way. Why would Greiner knowingly "break the law" and then "admit" it in the newspaper? You can call him alot of things, but he is not stupid. He knows the law when it comes to calling in traces on license plates and he wouldn't do it and then admit to it in the newspaper if he knew it was breaking the law. That simply doesn't make sense. There may be alot of other problems going on, but Greiner "breaking the law" isn't one of them.
Anon:
I wouldn't call him stupid, as that could be considered slander. I would however label him as not the brightest bulb on the tree. Anytime someone in his position comes across a situation where their actions can be questioned, which the case in point is a perfect example, they should think long and hard before they act. Greiner didn't, and its likely going to get him in trouble. Personally, I think what he did was morally wrong whether or not it is eventually proved to be wrong in the eyes of the law. Also, we forget that Godfrey is Greiner's boss and we know what happens to those that go against the boss.
Well. Hmm. If the Council really does want to take action in this matter, it would really be quite simple to do. As many of us have been saying for over a month now.
The initial problem began with the Council passing an ordinance that tied the performance evaluation scale, (which involves, among other things, a police ticket quota,) to salaries. The ordinance is written showing the evaluation scale in a box, with the scores needed to achieve raises on the left side and the raises themselves on the right side.
One very simple way to do this would be to amend the left hand figures in that box. Another way to do it would be to add other criteria, such as seniority, into the mix for the pay scale.
As you know, I attend Council meetings frequently and write about them here. The Council is always amending ordinances. In fact, the highly publicized incident of the amending of the ferret ordinance, showing humane and compassionate tendencies toward ferrets and their owners on the Council's part indicates an ability to amend motivated by public input and opinion.
This is possible. It has always been possible.
There have been a few comments from Council members about needing to follow "The Process," and this perceived necessity has been cited as the reason the Council has not moved on this. I have stated before and will state again here that procedure exists to facilitate action, not to squelch it.
All that has to happen is that someone make a motion to amend the ordinance, and that this motion pass by a 2/3 majority. This is because a simply majority is subject to a mayoral veto but a 2/3 is not. That would do it.
I think the best way to achieve this would be to invite the reps from the police and fire departments to informally discuss the problem issues with the Council. (If someone says this is not possible because of procedure, move to suspend the rules, which also needs a 2/3 majority, and then do it.)
Armed with this information, the Council could then examine the ordinance and request that a proposed amendment be written, including, if agreeable to all, the suggestions made by the reps. Then put it on the agenda. That to me would be the best way.
One thing our Council has to realize is that non-action is action. If there is a situation with which they refuse to deal, the message they send by that refusal is that they are all happy and comfortable with the status quo. Since obviously a large portion of the public is not, I for one would like to see some kind of motion to amend that ordinance on the agenda.
KSL is continuing to cover this story--on their website this morning:
Ogden Chief says Checking Officer's License Plate was Legal
Sam I Am,
Maybe you are right in possible motivations for the Chief's actions. Or, might he be obligated to have to look into possible inappropriate actions on the part of his officers, in spite of what it may look like to the public? Sometimes people have to do the something because it is the right thing to do, in spite of what it looks like to the outside world. We will see.
The grievance that public safety has had has been with Godfrey’s Administration and with the City Council. This started back in April when we were told that we will take what we are offered, (And like it!), by Mark Johnson. This whole situation could have been avoided if the City Council, excluding Ms. Jeske, had opened their ears and listened when the public safety employees had expressed their grievance in an open Council meeting back in the first part of June. Several thousand tickets, a “Blu Flu”, a hundred Godfrey brow beatings, a message van and a violation of civil rights later, the City Council has stated that they are going to fix this, finally, but do not know exactly how to do it. Here is a humble, but often repeated suggestion:
START BY REPEALING THE PUNITIVE EVALUATION THAT IMPLIMENTS A HIGH TICKET QUOTA ON OFFICERS AND PUNISHES THE CITIZENS (YOUR CONSTITUANTS).
You, the City Council, can completely fix the situation by adding these to your “to do list”:
HOLD THE MAYOR ACCOUNTABLE FOR HIS ACTIONS AND STAND UP AND DO WHAT IS RIGHT! TAKE A LESSON FROM PUBLIC SAFTEY AND DO NOT BUCKLE UNDER HIS BROW BEATING TACTICS.
Chief Greiner is being held accountable for what the Mayor told him to do. This about this: The Mayor is the one following Officer Jone’s wife, the Mayor is the one that contacted Chief Greiner and gave him the license plate number. The Mayor is the one who took vacation when the heat was turned on, leaving his subordinate to take all of the heat and an obvious sacrificial lamb. It is the Mayor who has done all of these things, although he was assisted by, for the most part, a rubber stamp City Council. Councilmember Jeske is the only one who has stood her ground on what is just, fair and ethically correct. Words that Mayor Godfrey has at best only heard about.
I will quote the article in the SE, some time ago:
“We feel that as Police Officers we swore an oath to protect and serve the Citizens of Ogden City. We feel that this not only means that we protect you against criminals, but in rare occasions such as this, we must protect you against your elected officials. We need your help and ask that you call Mayor Godfrey and your City Council Member and let them know that you support your police officers in this endeavor.”
We have stood up and fought the City Administration on its unfair ticket/tax evaluation system that is punishing the Police Officers, Firefighters and the Citizens of Ogden. With the Mayor bringing about the Officer Jones situation, it is the Public Safety Officers who need the protection of the citizens. Please continue to write your City Councilmember, The Mayor and send in your letters to the SE. Only together can we turn this situation around and end it. With this behind us, we can then work to bring Ogden back to the people and ensure that the little tyrant is accountable and not given a free hand to implement anything he wishes.
This is just the opinion of a humble public servant….
Dian,
KSL is continuing to cover the story by publishing an AP story from the Standard Examiner. At the beginning of the article you link to it says "Ogden, UT (AP)" which means it is an AP wire story. Then at the bottom it indicates that it the information is from www.standard.net.
Great way to follow the story. As I read the article I thought it sounded very familiar.
People argue about the timing of Officer Jones' suspension, but you could also argue that the complaints and accusations against Greiner are also politically timed.
How can you say that this attack on Greiner is politically timed?
His questionable misuse of the BCI system is in violation of the conditions of the contract signed by the Cities that use it.
His admission to running the plate number and admission to running others is brought upon himself, not a bunch of political hacks.
I would say that the way he keeps spewing in the media is enough to ruin his political aspirations, self inflicted. The voters are not stupid they can and do make wise decisions. I guess we will see when it comes election time.
From KSL's website comments on yesterday's story:
"Two of the officers that made statements in favor of Officer Jones and his wife,and had their statements published in the newspaper were removed from their position in Strike force and traffic and put back to patrol after making their comments, is that a coincidence too?? Just how many officers are going to be punished for their right to free speech?? How many officers are there at OPD??"
This was posted anonymously, but bears investigation; it certainly fits the pattern of retaliation.
I'm really sick of reading excuses for Chief Greiner's actions, ie, that he has to do what his boss tells him or lose his job. People have been known to quit their jobs over principles - apparantly Forgetfull John has none, but then we knew that already.
To the Various Anons in re: Grenier's actions
I doubt his tracking down the license number of a woman the mayor was following around downtown in order to identify her violated Utah law. But it was, in my view, clearly an unprofessional and unethical thing to do. The standard in Utah seems to be that there must be a legitimate law-enforcement reason for police to run license plates. Seems a reasonable and fairly easy standard to understand. Running a plate at the behest of a mayor annoyed because people are opposing his policies serves, so far as I can see, no legitimate law-enforcement purpose. He shouldn't have done it.
What happened seems obvious and simple and wrong: Ogden's police chief got a call from the mayor, [who was doing what he should not have been doing, following a city employee's wife around downtown], and asked him to do him a favor, run the woman's license so the mayor could find out if she was married to an Ogden policeman. Chief Grenier, who likes to talk about professional conduct and how he expects and demands it of the policemen he commands, should have been able to summon up enough integrity and professionalism to tell the mayor no. "Sorry, Mayor Godfrey, but I can't run a plate just to satisfy your curiosity. It would unprofessional of me. I can't do it."
Had Forgetful John done that, he'd have saved himself, and Mayor Godfrey, a great deal of embarrassment and trouble. But he didn't.
I know others at WC Forum disagree, but what concerns me most about the Godfrey administration and its major appointees is not that they might be engaged in illegal conduct, but that they are often engaged in unethical and dishonorable conduct. And they don't seem to understand why that is wrong. If you want to label that concern "political," feel free.
Please don't forget that there is a flip side to putting pressure on City Council to investigate and remedy this deplorable situation.
It is to show appreciation to those who express concern and do something about it. We want to encourage and reward those who stand up to Little Matt and Forgetfull John. Wouldn't it be wonderful if they were to do it again and again?
Hey Matt, how about going on "vacation" permanently?
Humble Public Svnt:
You wrote: This started back in April when we were told that we will take what we are offered, (And like it!), by Mark Johnson.
Absolutely right. I heard Mr. Johnson explain to the council that putting the city's "best" offer on the table and then refusing any changes was his "negotiating style." Sorry, an "offer" like that is not a negotiation. It's an ultimatim. I'm hard put to see how anyone with any grasp of the history of labor negotiations in the US [public and private, successful and unsuccessful] could possibly conclude that "take this and like it, no discussion" is a negotiating tactic at all, much less one likely to succeed.
To then go one step further and punish the public employees involved for merely exercising their right under city procedures to take their requests to the council for its consideration speaks volumes about both the arrogance of the current Administraion, and its incompetence. If I wanted to devise a plan to absolutely guarantee bad relations between city employees and the city government they work for, I could not have done much better than what the Godfrey administration devised as its labor "negotiating" policy [politely so called] this time round.
So, I think you got it exactly right, Humble.
So Safsten thinks the Chief is a real stand up guy!
I sure hope that no one was surprised by this, after all they are cut from the same bolt of arrogant cloth.
Just proves the old adage: "Birds of a feather flock together".
Safsten is up for relection this fall, I am sure a significant number of his constituants will remember this in the voting booth. I know I am sure looking forward to reminding them at that time.
As to "anonymous" statement:
"I fear that too many of the accusations against Greiner are fueled by political hacks instead of citizens truly concerned about integrity."
Typical reasoning from another sycophant of the Little Lord. Try to ascribe public sentiment to a small radical fringe group. Blame the victim for your own arrogance, Stick your head further into the hole in the ground and see only your own pollyanish version of events.
I highly recommend every one read today's "NonSequiter" cartoon. It perfectly describes the Godfrey, Greiner and related appoligist's, mind set!
Anon:
I agree that officials will sometimes have to make decisions that the public may not understand, or agree with, but I don't think Greiner's actions were out of "obligation". The mayor asked him to run the plate and he did, for better or worse. I think if he knew about the storm that would ensue, he would have told the mayor to take a hike. Also, the statements that Greiner has been making in the paper tend to be contradictory and confusing, leading the public, which sometimes "doesn't understand why these decisions are made", to believe that something is amiss. Also, the officer may have had legitimate complaints filed against him, but the crux of this argument is the supposed retaliation against him for voicing his opinion. I think you will be hard-pressed to make the argument that his actions were inappropriate, at least from a legal standpoint. I also think you will be even more hard-pressed convincing anyone, especially anyone on this blog, that Greiner did what he did because it was the right thing to do.
Thank you, Curmudgeon, for eloquently distinguishing between illegal and unethical behavior.
You've reminded me of a conversation I once had with a colleague who had participated in a panel discussion on ethics at WSU. Mayor Godfrey was another member of the panel. According to my best recollection of my colleague's report (yes, this is hearsay), the mayor expressed the opinion that in business (and government?), anything that's legal is also ethical. So either he simply doesn't understand the distinction himself, or he holds the radical view that legislative bodies are the ultimate arbiters of what is right and wrong.
In the present case, fortunately, there do seem to be applicable laws--if not on license plate lookups, then at least on employees' and their spouses' rights to engage in political activity.
Curm -"legal vs. ethical" - you are right on!!!!!
Oh Boy!
If the Mayor's office was telling callers that Jones was fired because of the van deal then watch for heads to roll of the persons answering the phones with that statement.
Don't forget that Godfrey got rid of the prior City Recorder.
I know I will be soundly beaten for what I am about to say but I have to say it anyway.
From the posts on the first KSL story someone posted what they claimed was an email from Godfrey, while it had some things that didn't match exactly what has been printed it had some interesting points that no one here has addressed.
1. The OPBA (? Ogden police union) told the chief that they had nothing to do with it and even identified the person they said was responsible.
2. The mayor saw the van being driven by someone other than the person who had been identified so he decided to observe who it was.
3. When the mayor determined he thought a person involved might be an OPD officer he provided the license plate number to the chief.
4. The chief ran the plate to determine if the person involved was an OPD officer and it turned out it was.
Did they chief not have duty, when confronted with information that the union (his officers) may have not told him the truth when they said they were not involved with the van, to investigate?
Was I the only one to have read that the officer involved had received a punishment of a suspension without pay for a previously investigated citizen complaint?
And what are you graded on at work? Does 3-6% of your grade depend on something that while part of your job is not something you enjoy doing? That is what the police have.
And Dian is one of our great investigators here, so here is a question I have that she or someone else might be able to answer. When did this 'quota' system become part of the grading of OPD officers? And how has it changed over time?
One last thing about traffic tickets is that the state siphons off a significant portion of the fines that people pay so it isn't like the $92 you pay for a ticket goes straight to the city's general fund.
Now do I think the police and firemen got a raw deal in their negotiations? Yes.
Do I think they should have the right to protest thier grievence while off duty? Yes but if union members are involved with the van and the union said they were not then they have some explaining to do.
Do I think anyone on either side of this is guiltless? Absolutely not.
It has been quite a ride watching all this go down though.
With the new Ogden City Justice Court opened in July, a much larger portion of ticket revenue will be entering the city coffers.
Typical events are occurring at OPD as we speak. Check out the post at KSL, which is 100% accurate:
"Replyofficers moved back to patrol
by Anonymous G. (#82140) @ 11:26pm - Thu Aug 3rd, 2006
Two of the officers that made statements in favor of Officer Jones and his wife,and had their statements published in the newspaper were removed from their position in Strike force and traffic and put back to patrol after making their comments, is that a coincidence too?? Just how many officers are going to be punished for their right to free speech?? How many officers are there at OPD??"
Promoting DownTown Ogden:
Since the general topic [specifics aside] involves the competence of the current city administration, perhaps this isn't too far off the mark.
Heard yesterday from someone who attended a bigish teacher convention/meeting at the Convention Center in downtown Ogden this week. The parking lots [pay lots] near the Convention Center filled up quickly, as did the on-street two hour limit parking places. The convention goer [who got there early enough to get a spot in a pay lot so she didn't have to worry] noted that Ogden parking enforcement was very busy enforcing the two hour parking limit, writing tickets.
Occurs to me that someone may have dropped the ball here. In other cities I've been in, when a big meeting is in town or some big event, they sometimes suspend the parking limits on the streets when there is insufficient parking available to handle those attending the meeting. Sometimes they even cover meters with paper bags indicating free parking that day. It in no way helps promote the Convention Center and Ogden for convention and meeting participants there to go home with parking tickets because the pay lots were full, and there was no other nearby parking available except the time-limited street slots. If that's what happened, it probably shouldn't have.
Before I draw a storm of objections: I have no idea who dropped the ball on this, if anyone did. The Ogden Convention and Visitors operation, maybe; or the managers of the Convention Center; or the administration generally. And I am in no way criticizing the parking police from do their jobs, as the laws require. Merely pointing out that perhaps a little less attention on pie in the sky gondola and real estate speculation schemes, and a little more attention to the nuts and bolts of making what Ogden already has work for convention and meeting groups would be a wise thing for the City to consider.
Curm:
I think you hit the nail on the head. We as police officers feel the same way. We want to get back to the basics of police work and this is why we are protesting the revenue generating evaluation put in place by Godfrey and the City Council. We have much better things to do than to insure that every out-of-towner leaves Ogden with a nice little ticket as a reminder of their visit to our great city.
Anon: On KSL report.
I think we have now clearly reached the point at which Rep. Neal Hanson's suggestion should be taken seriously. That at the very least the public presumption that the leadership of the OPD can objectively and fairly investigate both its own actions and those of the policemen involved has been seriously compromised. Absent that presumption of impartiality, I doubt any resolution of matters imposed by the City or police leadership will seem fair to the public at large. Or at least to that part of it following all this.
The City and Department leadership should welcome Rep. Hanson's call for some outside and independent authority to be the investigating body from here on out. I would think the City would welcome handing this hot potato off to an outside impartial agent as a way out of the hash they've made of things so far.
Let me be clear: Hanson's suggestion applies to the matter of the officer suspended, those re-assigned, and Chief Grenier's conduct. The matter of fixing the mess the Administration has made of the contract negotiations is the Council's business. And responsibility.
arcritic,
To my knowledge, the ordinance tying the present PEP program to the merit pay scale was passed by the Ogden City Council in June.
Regarding the running of license plates, I have found the following:
The Bureau of Criminal Identification (BCI) holds classes in order to certify law enforcement officers. Chief Greiner is a law enforcement officer. Officer Certification Training, for instance, involves accessing the Utah Criminal Justice Information System (UCJIS.) Utah Motor Vehicle File is listed as part of this system, as is the Utah Driver's License File.
In this training, officers learn policies and procedures dealing with the circumstances under which officers may access this information. Can't find these policies and procedures online. The question here is: was the incident in which this plate was run in conformance with the criteria needed for a law enforcement officer accessing this system?
I do not know what is supposed to happen if, for instance, it is found that a law enforcement officer did not conform to the BCI's policies and procedures. Maybe some public servants can help.
Utah Bureau of Criminal Identification
X-HUMBUG says: Das little Fuhrer Godfrey and the suspension of the First Amendment: Remember Bruce Edwards and the 25th St. sign fisaco? Godfrey's actions in that mess cost the City of Ogden (and its' taxpayers) $7 MILLION in settlements and court/attorney costs? How soon we forget. More recently, after the SLC City Weekly
hit the paper racks on May 11, 2006, the supporters (some would say "jock straps") of our Lord High Mayor, Emperor Of Ogden and Protector of Vacant Lots, removed all the copies of that paper form said news racks. Take a look at the "Little King's" propaganda now showing on the www.ogdencity.com web site about what form of government we have here. "What First Amendment?" My suggestion: "Lift Ogden, Impeach Godfery!".
This is a good Idea and what is good for all of taxpayer in ogden, is good for the mayor. come police lets really inforce the laws that the police cheif and mayor want you to. this should help you out on your quotas.
Notes from Kls blog,
Heres what we did!
by M T. (#50508) @ 12:05pm - Fri Aug 4th, 2006
I am a cop and not in Ogden THANK GOD! We had a similar problem facing us with a Mayor and a yes-man Chief. Our raises werent tied to citations, but our quarterly performance reviews were. With a poor review within a two year peiod your chances for a promotion were nill. So we decided on a very legal and annoying course of action.
Our 'traffic' cars are unmarked. They also look like most other vehicles on the road. The Mayors vehicle however stood uot like a sore thumb. He had purchased himself a rather flashy SUV on the taxpayers dime of course. It was truly one of a kind in this medium sized city. Every officer who saw the vehicle would cite for any infraction no matter how small. Rolling stop signs, no complete stop on red for a right hand turn, no front plate, tint (yes he had illegal tint installed), two miles per hour over the posted limit etc etc.. The Mayor lost his drivers license.
The Mayor hired a driver, again at taxpayers expense. This driver/bodyguard made almost $100,000 per year. The citizens were outraged. The driver drove the same flashy SUV. The driver/bodyguard now became the target of any and all traffic laws. He even parked in a fire zone once and the vehicle was impounded. This angered our little Napoleon to the point he installed red and blue 'undercover' lights on his vehicle.
Well you can't do that. He is not a state certified police officer, neither is his hired goon. He used the lights once to attempt to avoid being stopped for going 32 in a posted 30 mile per hour zone. I just wish I had the driver/bodyguards booking photo to post when he was arrested for impersonating a police officer.
Long story short the Chief was fired for insubordination (law suit pending). The Mayor rides his bike to work because his wife refuses to drive him (too many tickets, one more and she will lose her license). The Mayors two children have moved out of the county to avoid further violations. Citations are no longer a direct factor in quarterly evaluations. We only did what they wanted us to do, issue more citations. He is up for re-election and thus far has stated he will not run for office again. You folks in Utah just need to learn to play the game by their rules, remembering the rules aply to them too.
I would just like to go on the record to say that if Mayor Matt and forgetful Jon have nothing to hide and did everything by the book or the law.
Then why don't they come out and hold a press conferance and tell the truth of what happen and why, and nothing but the truth. Like Joe Friday says "Just the facts maam, Just the facts.
I would hope the city council will step up in there next city council meeting and move for an independant investigation and find out what is really going on with the administation,
City Council memebers this is your reponsiblity and your duty to all the taxpayer of Ogden.
You are the check and balance on the administation and should hold them accountable and respondsible for their actions.
Godfrey if you want to play private eye then get a licence and quit the city and go play private Eye. Heres looking at you kid.
Officer said:
If it is proven the investigation started on friday then obviously all the statements from Griener of the last week are lies and he should be immediately fired.
I think that it is the purview of the Mayor to hire and fire department heads.
Isn't it?
Erik,
Since no one has responded to your post, I thought I would. I think that would be a great idea. Please let me know when you would like to start getting the funds together, and I have a few dollars that are burning a hole in my pocket. You can get a hold of me by use of this blog... or you can e-mail me.
The timing of this being politically motivated against Godfrey and Greiner where Greiner is running for the senate, is laughable.
To all law enforcement officers....When criminals get caught, they the perpetrators would like to blame their victims, or accusers, such as the eye witnesses, the police officers, the prosecutors, the judges, the jury, and/or their defense attorney if they are found guilty.
It is everyone fault but their own?
This is the attitude of the typical non remorseful criminal would say or feel.
Am I right?..... all of you sworn in Law enforcement officers!!!
Typical criminal mentality !!!
Is that what Jon Greiner or Matthew Godfrey is saying?
I sure hope not.... after all they have integrity and standards.
So if timing is bad! Well Mayor Godfrey and Chief Greiner, you are the ones that set this timing in motion..... Lets not blame everyone else.....
It is too bad that the Ogden City Council didn’t have the intelligence or the balls to immediately place both the Mayor and Chief of police on administration leave pending a criminal investigation until an independent outside prosecutor and investigative team could go over the facts, the statements and require them both to take a polygraph tests.
Yes under federal law all government employees are subject to such a polygraph tests. Plus were Chief Greiner is a police officer he would be subject to Gerridae rules, that is all law enforcement officers are subject to. . who are under investigation.
That was the law that they (the Mayor and Chief used to hang the three officer out to dry that were involved in tow gate scandal....remember).
Oh Silly me I forgot this is a scandal within itself.
Granted, those writing to a blog aren't necessarily representative of the entire population. However,the number of posts to the KSL comments on the GodfreyGate story from people who say they have moved from Ogden, moved their businesses from Ogden, or now will not come here because of the ticket quota is really disturbing.
So much for making Ogden thrive, Mr. Mayor! Would you please resign before we sink even lower in everyone's opinon?
I just read the KSL comment board.
It is disheartening to see how many people will not live, work, shop, or drive in Ogden again.
So many have moved.
This mayor and administration are ruining Ogden.
Now with this "Will Ticket for Food" scheme that Godfrey has ordered, we are an unwelcoming town.
How can we thrive if people refuse to come here to support the Junction, dine, attend plays, sporting events, etc if they have to fear getting a ticket just for driving through Ogden?
This is demeaning to our police. This scheme has reduced the drivers to 'revenue generating machines.'
Godfrey and Greiner have trampled on the right of free speech.
They are punitive and arrogant. The voters are not gullible.
The polls will be open in 3 months and 3 days. The voters will turn out in droves, just to say "NO"!
It would behoove members of the City Council to remember that some of them will be coming up for reelection.
Hopefully, they will get their act together and censure this mayor, and reopen negotiations with the firefighters and police.
It is a simple matter to REamend the ordinances the previous council gutted. Take back your rights and responibilities to be a legislative body.
It's a shame that SLC attorneys speak out about this egregious misuse of police powers that has punished Officer Jones; and Gary Williams seems to have taken a hike, or is hiding under his desk by order of his boss?
All these sycophants forget that they don't work for Godfrey, they work and are paid by us!
Let's all put signs in our yards that say "We support OPD and wives..and freedom of speech".
Bet there would be more than LO signs all over town!
A gondola won't 'fix' our town. Getting rid of Godfrey will.
ALL THOSE RED SIGNS IN OGDEN SHOULD NOW READ "LIFT OGDEN THROW GODFREY OUT"
I see that the City Council agenda for August 8th has been posted and item #10 is of some interest. Here it is:
10. Closed Executive Session. Consideration of adjourning into Closed Executive Session pursuant to the provisions of Section 52-4-205(1)(a) and 52-4-205(1)(b) of the Open and Public Meetings Law for the purposes of discussing the character, professional competence, or physical or mental health of an individual; and employee negotiations, respectively. (Adjourn/not adjourn into Closed Executive Session – roll call vote)
I wonder whose character, professional competence, or physical or mental health they will be discussing along with the “employee negotiations. Sadly all will be discussed behind closed doors once again. At least Mr. Cook finally got the statue that justifies the closed door meetings right. I guess even a blind squirrel can find a nut now and then.
Here is another point that might interest you:
REMINDER: THERE WILL BE A SPECIAL WORK SESSION IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING THE COUNCIL MEETING. THE PURPOSE IS TO HEAR A PROPOSAL FROM THE DEVELOPER OF THE MALAN’S BASIN/GONDOLA/HILLSIDE DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS REGARDING A PROCESS TO CONSIDER THE PROJECTS.
This is found at the bottom of the agenda.
Will the Council finally stand up for what is right, just, and what they were voted in for? I guess we will see…..
When a Law Enforcement Officer uses B C I.
The Officer must have reasonable suspicion, that a crime has been, or about to be committed.
When a Mayor calls you to say a truck has a sign on it; IS IN NOW WAY SHAPE, OR FORM, REASONABLE SUSPITION OR PROBABLE CAUSE.
There is no Judge that will buy Chief Greiner’s Rationale. But I guess Councilman Safsten has bought it.
The person that wrote that the City Council needs to put the Mayor and Chief on administration leave is right.
However, they need to be on permanent leave.
Hopefully, some place where their corrupt political ambitions will not be oppressing anyone person, or group of people, which includes, Police Officers, Firefighters, Other employees, Drivers of Motor vehicles. Political statements, business that put posters in their windows (where the courts have ruled that their illegal ordinance was a violations of freedom of speech). It is too bad they don’t understand what our forefathers have went to war and fought for.
Oppression is a very serious matter. Not only in the eyes of the law.
Even some of the writing of Church General Authorities have consider it as serious sin as adultery.
Humble:
Don't read too much into the Closed Exec Session item on the agenda. It would say that if the Council were considering any personnel matter that might lead to termination etc. It is conceivable it's related to the current situation we are all discussing, but the probability is not high.
As for the work session following: I believe Mr. Peterson has lawyered up and it is his atty who will be making the presentation, or part of it. Let us at least be grateful that the presentation is being made at an open, public meeting so the public will know what is being pitched. Be thankful for small favors, I guess....
O.K. i have a good solution for the ticket quota, all of the people that Godfrey know from church live in this area, form 24th street to 27 street and from Harrison to Taylor I think that these peopld have plenty of money to supplement the tax System of a quota, that the more tickets that you write in this area, the more the mayor will know how well his system is working.
I would suggest that the same goes for Forgetful Jon in his neighborhood. he lives on fern drive behind the busse pond. I bet those people even have more money to contribute to the police salary and Jon can tell all of his neighbors that he is greatful for all the money for his department.
Enjoyed what M.T. who wrote on the KSL blog, and is a cop "NOT IN OGDEN THANK GOD!", had to offer.
He and his fellow officers ticketed their mayor for every teesnsy infraction til the mayor lost his license!
Then his hired driver, at $100,000. salary (can you believe this?) Is he SURE this isn't Ogden???.....is ticketed and 'booked' for something!
Now the mayor's wife won't drive her husband to work anymore cuz she's ONE ticket away from losing her license!! And their kids have left the county.
This is toooo delicious. Let's go Ogden cops!
While you're at it...tail Mark Johnson too. Oh, the justice of it all.
PS The quarterly quota system was terminated!!
Just doing the mayor's bidding.
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Anon:
Just a caution. I wouldn't assume anything posted on a blog or website was so, unless it was sourced, or could be corroborated. Might be. Might not be. Just be a little cautious about assuming things are true unless/until they can be corroborated.
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