Tuesday, August 08, 2006

To Protect, To Serve, and To Tax -- Updated

By Matt Mossbarger

One of the main roles of government is protect its citizens from harm. The Nation has the military; municipalities have the police and fire departments. Somehow though, in Ogden, the role of government is not necessarily to protect as much as it is to “generate revenue”. The golf course is on the auction block because it does not meet the aforementioned criteria of generating revenue.

No one is talking about selling the police department though, because it can generate big bucks for the city. In the city’s Performance Evaluation Standards for police officers, definite quotas have been set. The City Council then pegged the merit raises for police officers to a 4 or greater on their performance evaluations. What do the merit evaluations have to do with city revenue? Tickets… and lots of them, and lots of money from those tickets.

Police officers must now write more tickets in order to get a raise in salary. In the pursuit of a meager 5% merit increase after years of no increase, police are now required to write a certain number of tickets according to their job title. Patrol and Master Patrol officers, whose main job it is to keep us safe from burglars, thieves, murderers, and drugs, are now required to write 5 citations a week with 3 to 5 of those citations being hazardous condition citations (drunk driving, reckless driving, etc.). Traffic and Master Traffic Officers are required to write 8 tickets per day. How much money is that?

The force has 13 Traffic Officers and 48 Patrol Officers. If everyone wants their raises, there must be a total of 240 tickets from the Patrol Officers and 624 from the Traffic Officers per week. Tickets come in all flavors and sizes, but the average ticket is estimated at $80. The city stands to gain big money from those tickets: $69,120 per week, $276,480 per month, or $3,317,760 per year.

The reason this became such an issue this year is that the city now has the methods and means for getting the whole pot of money. The city’s recent establishment of a Municipal Justice Court allows it to keep all the tickets and revenue in house. The state used to get much of the revenue, but the money can now remain solely with the city. The city now has all the pieces in place for a “revenue generating” machine.

This affects the average citizen of Ogden in many different ways. In fact, an outright tax on the citizens would have been more kind. The citizens, now fair game for tickets no matter how small the infraction, are facing higher insurance costs, loss of productivity while waiting for the officer to write the ticket, and increased crime. Increased crime? Oh yes. The police cannot patrol as much as they used to because they are too busy writing tickets for the city. The city is also only adding officers in the Traffic Division, even though we need more narcotics and patrol officers and detectives, who are overloaded with cases.

The police have been trying to combat the problem through making the citizenry aware of this change in policy. In exercising their First Amendment Rights and guarding their integrity, the officers are placing their jobs on the line. In one alleged incident, an officer’s wife was recently seen by Mayor Matthew Godfrey while she was getting out of a panel truck that had billboards protesting this change in policy. Allegedly, the Mayor then watched the officer’s wife as she met her husband, who was there to take her home. The Mayor then admitted following the off-duty officer and his wife, who were in a personal vehicle, for a few blocks, because “I thought I recognized the officer” as recorded on Fox 13. Two hours after being followed, the officer was met at his home by a lieutenant who relieved the officer of his badge, car, gun, and all other police equipment. The officer is now on “administrative leave” and, also allegedly, calls to the Mayor’s Office the next morning unveiled the fact that he had been “fired”. The story appeared on Fox 13 the next day.

The message is obvious. Don’t rock the boat; shut up and write tickets. The city of Ogden needs intelligent leadership, and we need to be safe in our streets. The citizens of this community should not put up with this silent tax from the city.


This article, originally dated July, 29, 2006, appears as a guest editorial in this morning's Standard-Examiner. The author has graciously granted Weber County Forum second publishing rights, for which courtesy we thank him. Links have also been added by your ever-humble blogmeister.

Update 8/8/06 3:43 p.m. MT: We are posting this short update to confirm rumors circulating in the below comments section. Yes -- Boss Godfrey held an impromptu press conference early this afternoon, outside his throne-room on the municipal building ninth floor.

The purpose of this press gathering -- to announce that the Matt Jones internal investigation, together with all other issues pertaining to the Vangate controversy, are now being handed off to Weber County Attorney Mark Decaria's office for an independent investigation.

Among "other" issues specifically mentioned during this press conference -- and to be investigated by Mr. Decaria's office -- all issues surrounding the possible misuse by Boss Godfrey and/or Chief Greiner of the BCI computer database.

According to Mayor Godfrey, Mr. Decaria's investigation will be broad in scope, and will look into possible legal and ethical violations.

That's the gist of it. There were no other significant new factual revelations. Boss Godfrey has apparently told his story, and he's sticking to it.

We are pressed for time this afternoon, but will review our notes, and may possibly update this addendum later this afternoon.


a humble public servant said...


Very nice.....The motive behind the tyrant is revieled!

a humble public servant said...

This is worth another read;

Publication:Standard-Examiner Digital Edition; Date:Jun 27, 2006; Section:Opinion; Page Number:7A

Ogden thinks of police as revenue-generators

BY TROY ARROWSMITH Guest commentary

The Ogden Police Benefit Association would like to inform you of what is and has been instituted by your elected city officials. After Mayor Godfrey’s administration violated several written agreements with the OPBA, we came to an impasse in our negotiations this year and pleaded our case to the City Council. We did this because Ogden city has withheld over 18 percent of wages from us over the past several years. The Ogden City Council, in turn, voted to punish both the firefighters and the police officers for going to an impasse, and instituted a new pay-forperformance standard.

How does this affect you? A little history is required.

When Mayor Godfrey took office in 2000, a payfor-performance plan was instituted; every police officer has had a set number of citations, a quota, which must be written every month in order for that officer to receive his wage increase.

During this same time frame, Mayor Godfrey has chosen to address the crime issue in Ogden by adding more officers to the Traffic Division (officers whose primary mission is to write citations). The mayor effectively doubled the size of the Traffic Division. No addition in personnel has been made to the Patrol Division (those officers who handle your calls and proactively prevent crime), to the Narcotic Unit, Gang Unit or the Detective Division. This is an obvious plan to use the police department as revenue generators and raise money from you, the citizens, to pay for who knows what project.

In 2005, Ogden officers had to write in excess of 20,000 citations just to get their wages to feed their family. This means that every man, woman and child who are Ogden citizens will receive a citation, at a minimum, every few years.

Are your elected city officials representing your views on this? Is this fair to you? Why are they trying to raise funds in such an underhanded way? Your elected officials are using the police department as a revenuegenerating machine instead of the job we were sworn to do: public safety.

Unfortunately, it gets worse: On June 13, and again on June 20, the City Council voted to enact a new pay-forperformance plan. Council members Wicks and Jeske were the only two who stood up for their constituents and voted against it. This plan means that officers will have to increase the number of citations they write to you in order to get their raise. These are patrol officers — graveyard, swing and day shift — who should be patrolling your neighborhoods and preventing crime, not taxing the citizens.

Are your elected officials truly serving you by forcing officers to watch a stop sign in hopes that they reach their ticket quota and get a raise? We feel that as police officers we swore an oath to protect and serve the citizens of Ogden. We feel that this not only means that we protect you against criminals, but in rare occasions such as this, we must protect you against your elected officials. We need your help, and ask that you call Mayor Godfrey and your City Council members and let them know that you support your police officers in this endeavor.

Arrowsmith is president of the Ogden Police Benefit Association.

Neil-H said...

Hi everyone,
I guess that it is time for me to finally chime in on this issue on this blog.

As I have watched the things that have been going on in Ogden city that I represent in the state legislature. I think that there are some very needed check and balances that need to take place.

We as voters deserve to have accountibilty and responibility called upon from time to time.
When the city attorney said,“My legal opinion has to be reserved for my clients,” Who are his clients may I ask?

The other day I had a voter call me and asked where I stood on the issues that have been reported in the newspapers about the police and freedom of speach situation.

I could have easily have said those are for the council and the mayor to decide, but I didn't.
I told them that how we as voters should demand certain standards from our elected officals, as well as those that earn their living from our hard earned tax dollars.

With that said, I would say that so long as the city attorney who earns his living from our tax dollars has the duty to make sure that the city as a whole, {all depts} are protected from abuse. he is after all the chief prosecutor for the city. He should always have the integrity of the city as the first priorty of his duty.

Regardless of who hired him, or who he thinks is his client, the integrity of the city is at stake here. He should be able to interview those involved to find the truth of the situtation.
He should report to us taxpayers of what his findings are. But, If the city council thinks for one minute that he is unable to give an unbiased decision, then that is when the chair of the council needs to ask for the hiring of an independant investigation, and voted on by the city council who represents us, the voters.

Lets remember that I'm not calling into question the integrity of the Mayor or the Chief of Police, but am looking at whether the Integrity of the city has been compromised and that laws may have been broken.

So lets get to the truth and do away with all the rumors.

Anonymous said...

You really are true Statesmen. Thanks for fighting for what is right. Sadly, the so called dignitaries just don’t get it. They forget who they are and where they came from? The real purpose of government officials, is to serve, not to be served.

Anonymous said...

Gary Williams clients are the Administration, the Council and ALL other City Departments, including Police & Fire. His quote makes perfect sense.

sharon said...

Matt: Excellent commentary. Thank you.

This is Tuesday.

Therefore, drop whatever other plans you made for tonight and attend the City Council meeting. Stand at the microphone and say to the Council what you are so eloquently saying here.

Our police and firefighters NEED our public support.

Hopefully, Scott Schwebke will acutally print some of your remarks so the readers of SE get a true picture of the doings at these Council meetings.

Officer Jones and his family need us to stand for them . Hopefully he has a first rate CONSTITUTIONAL attorney who will bring this arrogant administration to its collective knees.

Gary Williams showed his bias and apparent slavish devotion to Matt Godfrey by saying he couldn't make a statement to the SE beacause "my legal opinion has to be reserved for my clients."

Again, Neil Hansen and I ask, "which ones???"

How can Williams possibly display anything but bias against Matt Jones when he's hired and fired by Hizzonah?

And this is the case with the Justice Courts that Attorney Martinez has articulated before the courts. TAXATION TAXATION TAXATION....and dancing to the tune the piper Mayor plays.

Please come to the Council meeting tonight. Stand up for justice and freedom of speech (while we till can).

Matthew Godfrey has been more detrimental to this city than any other person in memory. This should serve as a lesson for voters. Please be very sure of any candidate's background, experience, AGE, MATURITY, PSYCHOLOGICAL HEALTH, and TEACHABILITY on the issues. Also a little (sense) of self-deprecating humor helps.

Never vote for a candidate because you know his/her father-in-law, cousin, brother-in-law or wife's hairdresser. Aren't we smarter than that????

A grown-up for mayor is always a good prerequisite.

sharon said...

A work meeting will follow the Council meeting. Chris Peterson is supposed to present his 'plan' to the Council.

Didn't I read that he wants the Council to 'sign' a letter of intent or some such thing?

Why? They don't need to sign anything with Peterson. They can listen to his studies,( if he has them) and plans just as attentively without their signatures on a peice of paper.

Anyone can attend...no speaking at the work meeting.

a humble public servant said...

I hear the Mayor has called a news conference for sometime this afternoon. I will give you a prediction:

The Mayor will remove the ticket quota section of the police evaluation. He will do nothing else to fix the wrong doings with public safety. He will not comment on the Officer Jones situation.

This will effectively take out the message that the police have used to fight the punitive evaluation. He will also do this to show that he is still in charge and to steal the thunder from the City Council’s meeting tonight.

I hope I am wrong.

copperpenny1954 said...

News Conferance? As on TV, radio, where? Please keep us posted. I have to hear this ...

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
minus1 IQ said...

Norm Ashton was the Ogden City Attorney ever since I remember until he was appointed as a new Municipal Justice Court judge.

He took a couple of thousand pay cut to make the transfer from the City to the Court to still earn around $96,000.00 per year.

What has not been publicized is that he also went for his retirement compensation from Ogden City which has to be substantial so we have another double dipper on the public payroll.

The assistant Ogden City Attorney also made the transition to the Municipal Justice Court as another judge. We have no figures for what she gets at the Municipal Justice Court but it has to be substantial or she would not have left Ogden.

The Justice Court only handles traffic violations and minor Ogden City rule violations with no criminal matters. Those go to District Court.

This new type of court used to be handled by a Justice of the Peace who was not even an attorney before the scheme of a Municipal Justice Court was concocted. That is where the "Justice" part of the title comes from.

Several questions here. Why do we need two high priced attorneys to run the Justice Court?

The other obvious one is not a question at all but an explanation as to why the quota system for police has evolved in force.

When will the Ogden City Administration finally realize we are not as dumb as they would like to think we are and that we know what is going on.

Anonymous said...

Do you have any idea how many Ogden police sergeants and lieutenants are double dipping right now? Maybe our city could pay the cops who actually get out of their secured, bunker like office and work more money.

Anonymous said...

...if these a$$holes retired.

althepal said...

Keep in mind that neither of these two Ogden City retreads have any judicial experience either.

Still, it's not a REAL court anyway.

a humble public servant said...

There are no sergeants double dipping. All three chiefs and 2 lieutenants, with one LT wating in the wings to return, that are double dipping.

Anonymous said...

hey mr. humble...do you really want me to name names?

a humble public servant said...

Sure....What's there to hide?

copperpenny1954 said...

"hey mr. humble...do you really want me to name names?"

IF you do, you better make sure your facts on this are correct. I doubt you're dumb enough to name names.

Anonymous said...

How can anyone who has ever worked for an employer state that this poor little police officer's free speach was violated?

If I ever pulled something like that and spoke out against my company, I would be on Monster.com tomorrow!

Anonymous said...

I am sure Burger King would treat you better than that.

Anonymous said...

shit that's funny anon...geez

Anonymous said...

Ron Gardner has been double dipping for years!

Anonymous said...

Ron is not a Sergeant, Lieutenant or a Chief.

number1 iq said...

I find it most interesting that we were never able to get any data on a GRAMA request re City Attorney Norm Ashton in all those years he served.

When he retired the Standard E gave more info on him that I was ever able to find out. That he was a former partner in Fabian and Clendenin and his old partner now a Supreme Court Judge came to the ceremony to give accolades.

I dare anyone to get a City document re Norm Ashton. He was in office so long that could it be that he had too much dirt on too many mayors so the files all just got lost??????

copperpenny1954 said...

seems Mr. Amonymous here belongs to the 101st fighting keyboarders.

Hey Amon, do you think Desente would treat you that way? I'd stop working with the company if I were you1

wally said...

CopperPenny....you beat me to teh computer! Exactly what I was going to ask the kid.

sharon said...

HPS..pls tell the particulars about the news conf.

toadhall said...

Please HPS give some details on the press conference. As in when, where... and would they like a large crowd.

Curmudgeon said...

On free speech in the private workplace:

You can indeed be fired for criticizing your boss or the company or its products if you work for a private employer. The First Amendment will not protect you. It limits only government action respecting speech.

However, in order to avoid the blatant politicization of police forces and other public employees, laws have been passed in many states, including Utah, restricting an Administration's ability to either coerce or limit the political speech of public employees off the job.

We have a long and not encouraging history in this country of public employees ... and in particular police forces ... being used to further the interests of particular political machines. [My grandfather was a cop in Jersey City under the notorious Boss Hague regime. I grew up with stories around the dinner table of what happened there.]

So, while anon's claim that he could be fired for such shenanigans as he put it if he worked for a private employer is true, it is also irrelevent. The officer involved works for the City of Ogden. As such, he is protected from political maniputation of his speech off duty by his boss or by the city Administration. He is protected in that regard both by specific Utah legislation and by the first amendment.

An employee of a private business would not be protected similarly.

dan s. said...


If you stop and think about it for just a few seconds, you'll realize that your comparison to working for a private company is mostly irrelevant. With only the rarest exceptions, private companies are not democracies.

In order for a democracy to function, the citizens need to be free to express their views on matters of public policy. Citizens who happen to be employed by the government deserve this right as much as anyone else, and since they often understand the government better than others, it's especially important that their free speech rights be protected.

Of course, free speech is never unlimited. Courts have found that speech pertaining specifically to a public employee's job duties is often not protected by the First Amendment. (Silly example: The First Amendment would not protect a police officer who tipped off a drug dealer just before a planned sting operation.) But a general complaint on a matter of legislated policy is just as protected when it comes from an affected employee (or an employee's family member) as when it comes from any other citizen. And in addition to the First Amendment, there's a Utah state law that specifically protects political speech by municipal employees when they're off duty.

dan s. said...

The press conference should be going on right now. I was told that it would be at 1:30, in the mayor's office. And no, I wasn't invited!

the meaner me said...

Here's what the Trib said about the news conference (posted at 2:52.


Ogden mayor seeks outside probe in police dispute
By Kristen Moulton
The Salt Lake Tribune

OGDEN - Mayor Matthew Godfrey on Tuesday asked the Weber County Attorney's Office to launch an independent investigation into disciplinary actions taken against an Ogden police officer.
Matt Jones was placed on paid leave by Police Chief Jon Greiner two hours after Godfrey followed the officer and reported his license-plate number to Ogden's top cop.
The mayor suspected Jones was linked to a van decked out in signs protesting police ticket quotas and pay policies. It turns out, Jones' wife had been driving the van.
Greiner argues he did nothing wrong in running the officer's plate and insists heplaced Jones on leave for unrelated activities.
Godfrey maintains he did nothing wrong as well. But he acknowledged Tuesday the dispute has raised questions and tensions in the northern Utah city. He said he hoped an outside probe would settle those questions for residents and City Council members.

sharon said...

Yeah, I watched the 'press conference'.

Godfrey had on his halo, and his hand over his heart.

I was convinced.

It's really sad that no police rep was there to speak also. Even outside the building.

I hope many people show up at the Council meeting tonght and take the mike.

I saw Councilman Glassman there. Didn't recognize anyone else from the council...but did see Geiger looking 'thoughtful'.

a humble public servant said...

Well I suck at predicting!

I don't get to my computer to often, so sorry for all of the unanswered posts. I only heard of the news conference, not the details as to why. I depend on this blog for most of my information.

Intersting tactical move by the Mayor. I am unsure if this independant investigation includes the violation of civil rights with Officer Jones & his wife. This deflates what could or could have happened at the CC meeting tonight.

Curmudgeon said...

On the Mayor's Conference and Move:

He reacted late to the problem his own actions and those of Forgetful John Grenier created, but he finally did something shrewd. One, this puts a bandage on the bleeding while people wait for the outside investigation to conclude. And it permits him to answer to all questions "I don't want to comment while the investigation is going on."

Second, the outside investigator will focus on internal police procedures in re: officer Jones' suspension, and on the legality of the other questionable actions. I warrant he will neither delve into nor comment on the ethics of the Mayor's actions. If the investigation sticks entirely to legalities, the Mayor has a chance of emerging with a cleansing report he can point to as exonerating him. It may, of illegalities. But not necessarily of unethical behavior. But it was a smart thing he did today, if late.

I expect the investigation will not examine free speech issues at all. But we shall see.

ARCritic said...

I would like to address some things in Matt's commentary.

First, the amount of money the city gets from tickets is lower than he claims because of state madated revenue sharing. The state takes, I believe it is 35% of the top, then shares the balance in some method.

Second, isn't it the job of police officers to give tickets? Seems I remember an article about a State Trooper who was being commended for busting so many drug smugglers along I70 in central Utah and they talked about how many of the perps he got from finding something to pull them over for and then finding the drugs or something else to nail them for. In the article it indicated that troopers who didn't make many stops or give many tickets were much less likely to make as many warrent arrests and drug busts. Turns out part of becoming good at finding bad guys is pulling people over and doing some investigating. For that reason I would think some level of ticket quota would be a good thing and while it has been said that an officer can get the full raise without meeting the ticket quota or even giving any tickets, it has also been said that by not giving any tickets you don't get a raise. And that seems to follow my thoughts. Pulling people over gives an opportunity to find the bad guys. Will many good people get caught in the net? Probably but if they were breaking a traffic law then do they have a right to be upset that they got pulled over?

I really hate being the position of defending Mayor Godfrey and Chief Griner and the council for really anything they have done but sometimes (probably most times) many on this blog are so biased against them that they fail to see any good that goverment does.

I personally find that the appearences of this vangate situation stink to high heaven. I also believe that in the end it will all come to naught.

a humble public servant said...


I agree with all that you said except one thing, it is a criminal offense to violate one's constitutional rights. The Mayors actions are not just on an ethic level, but a criminal one as well. Let us not forget the following statute:

10-3-826. Official neglect and misconduct class A misdemeanor -- Removal from office.
In case any municipal officer shall at any time willfully omit to perform any duty, or willfully and corruptly be guilty of oppression, misconduct, misfeasance, or malfeasance in office, the person is guilty of a class A misdemeanor, shall be removed from office, and is not eligible for any municipal office thereafter.

Amended by Chapter 178, 1986 General Session
Download Code Section Zipped WP 6/7/8 10_03078.ZIP 1,748 Bytes

a humble public servant said...

I agree about the State Trooper doing a great job and being commended. To think he was able to do all that without a ticket quota, since the State Troopers are not required to write a certain number of tickets.

What percentage will the state get off of ticket fines with the new court opening in Ogden?

Anonymous said...

Did any of you catch that on channel 2 news with Rod Decker. The mayor maintains there is no ticket quota in Ogden City. Now the problem is he doesn’t perceive it as a quota, he only perceives is at a performance evaluation.

However he doesn’t even acknowledge it at all.

Therefore, it is like directly lying. Because he refusing to clarify the difference.
It is too bad that the new media doesn’t get a copy of the evaluation and have it point out at point blank at the mayor and have him explain the difference. then have the media play back the video clip that went on the air.

Anonymous said...



I can understand the sense of fear one might feel in the naming of names of our beloved OPD. Humble and Arcritic, I know, my friends, I know.

Sitcom viewers did you know that you can retire from OPD as a Chief or LT, collect your retirement and be REHIRED and REFILL your SAME LT or CHIEF POSITION!!!

My fellow Ogdenites, the City Council, the mayorman, and Jonny and cast are not requiring our minions to write tickets for revenue. THAT IS TOO SIMPLE.

The reason that there is a need to generate money is to pay the retirement pay AND full salary to our retired Chiefs and LT's.

Hmmmmm, when was the last time there was a retirement party held at OPD? When was the last time our proud administrators retired without the fanfare, bells and whistles, and mention in THE STANDARD EXAMINER?

Why are our most egotistical and arrogant administrators HIDING FROM THE RETIREMENT LIMELIGHT?

Shhhhhhh, is anybody looking?
I have a secret to tell you.....
Do you promise not to tell?

Giggle, giggle, it's as if they have never retired!!!!! Who knew?
Jonny is retired and he is still a chief. (giggle giggle.) Randy, who may have shot the puppy by now, is also retired. What about Rage? No, the other one?

Who is awaiting in the wings, could it be our favorite cowboy?

Shhhhhh, don't tell anybody.

Oh, just check out the agenda for the civil service commission, you know it is all public information.

Just don't tell anyone I told you!!!

Shhhhh. Promise not to tell?

Tickets = Taxes = Revenue?


Tickets = Taxes = Jonny's Salary!

Anonymous said...

Do you have a link to the civil service agenda?

Curmudgeon said...


Oh, I agree in re: violation of constitutionally protected rights being a crime. What I was suggesting was that the investigating officer/committee will, I suspect, not examine that aspect of the business, but will stick largely to procedural matters [the suspension of the patrolman; running plates for the mayor; etc.]. I will be surprised if the investigating agent goes into the free speech aspects of what happened. And if he tackles it at all, it will be via the Utah law regarding off duty speech of public employees, not the First Amendment. In other words, he will opt to narrow the scope of his report as much as possible [a common practice, usually much applauded, among courts: to rule on constitutional questions on the narrowest grounds necessary to reach a decision and to avoid going beyond that.]

We'll have to see. I could be pleasantly surprised.

Anonymous said...


You sound like you are a cop, or possibly a retired cop. maybe one who has an office by the eoc?

Monotreme said...

A modest proposal

Hey, I have an idea. Since we are supposedly doing performance evaluations of public safety officers, what if Our Fair City's administration actually devised a system that [wait for it...] uses performance measures?

Number of tickets written is not a valid measure of performance in the realm of public safety.

Reducing the average speed on Harrison Blvd from (say) 43 mph to 41 mph would be a performance measure.

Reducing the number of accidents involving drunk drivers would be a performance measure.

Then, and I know this is a novel concept, we could actually let the public safety officers figure out how to hit those performance benchmarks. After all, we assume they're professionals who know how to discharge their duties.

Let them figure out how to hit the standards we set. If it's tickets, so be it. But then our city administrators will be setting performance measures instead of revenue-generating measures.

What say you, fellow bloggers?

Anonymous said...

The retirement pay comes out of the state system it is not paid by the city-this is the only reason the city allows this to happen. Full pay plus retirement pay=a sweet deal for the top of the food chain while the bottom feeders get the shaft.

Anonymous said...

Is it true that the little man on the 9th floor did what Rep. Hansen asked for?
That is for a indepentant investigation on the police matter.

Do you think that we will know who the invetigator is, so that if we have some thing to report on the Mayor that we can talk to him also.

sharon said...

Godfrey has Mark DiCaria's office conducting the 'investigation'.

Nothing against Mark, but he's the Weber County DA...and we need someone with NO ties to Ogden.

Another ploy by Godfrey to wield control.

Godfrey gave one of his 15 minutes replies to me tonight. The man loves the sound of his voice. He ended his explanation of performance standards, and NO quotas, by saying that (I suggested) that no tickets should be issued. He is sooo disingenuous.

BTW...Ch's 4and 5 have just done stories on the Vangate. Larry Warren on Ch4 said that "Griener said that when the salary negotiations were taking place the officers themselves wanted the ticket quota put in." This after saying that there is no quota system.

And that the officers themselves are spreading that rumor!!

The Council must insist on an investigator far away from Ogden.

Who will believe anything that the County Atty's office comes up with?

Attended the work meeting with Chris Peterson and his doublespeak atty. I'll let Ozboy give the rundown.

What a boondoggle....the bottom line: Ogden changes its General Plan first...and then they'll unveil a little more of their unformed plan.

Another humble servant said...

Anon, you need to get your facts straight, or do your homework. The dollars that would normally be paid into the retirement system for Police and Fire. Around 30% of gross for the Police, and around 8% for Fire is paid back to the employee (Greedy Bastard) who is retired and still working the same job.
There is no benefit to the City to pay top wages to these gluttonous administrators when they could be paying a lower salary to a new administrator at the bottom of the pay range.
Don’t forget, the Fire Chief is retired, the Fire Marshall is retired, and a couple of others in the fire department are retired.
One of the reasons the City is screaming poverty, is because the retirement office in a round about way penalized the City, because of its good ol boy syndrome of taking care of the faithful servants on the top end.
Just imagine making full retirement pay, then turning around and still collecting full benefits plus the money the city would normally pay on the employee’s behalf into the retirement system. That’s a chunk of change.

Can you say gluttony? Greed? And special favors for the loyal few?

And, when they retire, the position isn’t even posted, the little lord lets the loyal few work part time then rehires them back in six months. WHAT A CROCK O POO.

wasatchlady said...

Police duties include issuing tickets for genuine infractions of traffic regulations. How many of you have wished that there was a police person around when you nearly got hit by someone driving through a a just turned red light? Or wished that the police had seen the driver speeding and passing you in a no pass zone on 32nd street? Or many other violations that left you feeling in danger on the city streets of Ogden?

The point is that there should never be a quota...there should be genuine enforcement of the traffic regulations... The issue should not be how many tickets are written, but whether or not the tickets written are for real violations, however many that may be. Are people speeding in school zones, running red lights, stop signs, endangering pedestrians, driving under the influence of drugs or alcohol, perhaps just not paying attention because they are on a cell phone or didn't get enough sleep the night before.

Performance standards are not a new phenonema for either government or private businesses. But, and this is a huge but, evaluations are generally linked to achievement (being good at your job). Not the number of tickets written, but the number of citizens served.

sharon said...

Oh Yes. The dear mayor while denying a quota...remember the police have started that rumor...did say that 'customer service' is what police should be doing for the Ogdenites.

Curmudgeon said...


Note, if Ogden changes its general plan first, then the Mayor can simply sell Mt. Ogden golf course and the attached city-owned park lands to Mr. Peterson without any further Council action. Not even a vote. That, I think is how things stand.

If I am incorrect about this, I'd be happy to be corrected, but I believe one of the final actions of the "old" council on which the Mayor had a docile majority was to take the dollar limit off the amount of land the mayor could sell on his own authority, without specific Council approval.

Anonymous said...

humble servant-it really is asmart mov e on the mayors part-take the two employeee groups that you have conflict with, offer the chiefs sweet deals=yes men in charge

OgdenLover said...

Last week's story had Mayor Sam Spade following Mrs. Jones to the municipal parking lot where her husband was waiting in his parked car.

Yesterday, the story was that Officer Jones was following the van.

Can't Mayor Mighty Mouse find one version he likes and stick to it?

Southsider said...

I love the spin in this quote in the SL Trib from Godfrey's press conference:

“They'll also be asked to look at my involvement, limited as it was,” Godfrey said

"limited as it was"!

And of course the classic:

“The concern I had and the chief had was that his officers weren't telling the truth,” Godfrey said. “We fire people all the time for lying.”

Lying? There's lying in Ogden City government? Who could that be?

Curmudgeon said...


Hmmmm... continuing the have the City Website tell people that the gondola will make it unnecessary for people to have to drive to snowbasin from downtown isn't a lie? Strange definition of untruth our mayor has....

ozboy said...

Mr.Curmudgeon, as bright and worldly as you obviously are, you are obviously clueless when it comes to the theory and practice of the "Flexible Truth".

It is all the rage now in governments at all levels throughout America. It was givin birth in the U.S. by the NeoCon Numbskull School of People Control that captured the Republican party over the last several decades, and has made great inroads into conquering the Yeller Dogs as well.

You must get clued in, really. I understand that our dear little beleaguered lord may begin a new course at WSU in this inovative modern political practice.

We very well may become the only city in the world that has a major school of disingenuousness that is connected by Gondola to a train station.

Anonymous said...

Dear Another Humble Servant,

Thank you for clearing up the facts and to be, ooops, honest, I am just an old time "bit" player at our humble "play house" and did not know how the gluttony works!!!! This may explain why the administrators get richer and, alas, since I have yet to meet my "standard" I stay poorer.

I just wanted to name names, I love to name names. Little Scotty Conley, our resident cowPOKE, heeeheee, was on the June 10 (if I recall the correct date) agenda of the civil service commission to be reconsidered for "reappointment".

Yes, fellow viewers, you, too, can access basic agenda information on the Ogden City Web Site, just go to the "Agenda" link on the left and review all options for all meetings. On May 10th the agenda indicated a review of the jurisdiction for the grievance of our outspoken Melcher player.

Oh well, this fearful anonymous player is feeling the more tragic components of the tragi-comedy, this fine day and will sign off.


actually, nothing is going to change in this dirty little shop.

sharon said...

I attended an "ethics" workshop because our beloved 'I have more integrity than anyone in this room' was on the panel.

After stumbling into our seats, stepping on backpacks and feet on the passage, we look up and omigosh, omyheck, can you believe it??

Matt had called in at the last minute...couldn't make it.

Hey, at least he had the integrity to let someone know. Wait...maybe the moderator just figured it out when Matt was a no-show?

Bryan said...

Although this is a late chime in there is one thing that I dont see being discussed in the "quota". And thats the Hazardous Conditions tickets. That little statement right there means that officers now have great incentive to get into a pursuit. In one pursuit they can fill their quota, get a new vehicle (gotta wreck your current car to do a pursuit right), and if the offender happens to injure or kill someone in the pursuit the officer is set for the whole month.

Basically "God complex" Godfrey is making it extremely lucrative for officers to do pursuits regardless of conditions. While I doubt that most officers would go for a pursuit in conditions that would be harmful to us citizens, Im glad I no longer live in Ogden and will be making sure to do my shopping in other cities until this "performance evaluation criteria" has been revised.

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