More "tall tales" from the Godfreyite camp
By Jim
This is a new twist.
According to this morning's Salt Lake Tribune article by Kristen Moulton, there are 2000 absentee ballots and 700 provisional ballots out now.
The provisional ballots are to be counted starting today.
The absentee ballots will not be counted until later, to allow mailed ballots to arrive.
Godfrey is now taking responsibility for "five or six" challenges to voters. His Dorothy Littrell and Jesse Garcia obsession continues unabated.
He claims no knowledge of the other 140-odd voters who were challenged by his renegade supporters over whom he has no apparent control. Lots of freethinkers over in the Godfrey camp, I suppose.
(Note to the meaning-impaired who have recently occupied this forum: when I say, "140-odd", I mean "about 140 and I can't be bothered to look the exact number up or calculate it". I don't mean "these people are odd". Many are my friends and neighbors who are trying to figure out how they ended up on a Nixonesque "enemies list".)
This morning's Standard-Examiner also contains two articles on the election.
This Charles Trentelman piece includes the first extensive interview with Blake "She'll never believe that, dude" Fowers, who explains some of his motivation behind the challenged voter list.
Apparently, Mr. Fowers' keen powers and Spidey-Sense have picked up a lot of fraudulent voter names, and he was just doing his duty as a citizen when he submitted those names to election officials. No political dirty tricks, no sir. Not retaliatory tactics. It's the same community spirit we see in those who are willing to follow police officers' wives and run down license numbers, and go tackle Evil Bicycle Thieves,
I have a suggestion. If the Godfrey campaign really believes that voter fraud was taking place, then they should have been satisfied with the relief they received, which was the checking of identification at the polls. Presumably, everyone who voted on a provisional ballot was allowed to do so only after they produced the required forms of identification. So, that process should have satisfied their civic-minded intent.
So I'm certain, since I believe that the Godfrey campaign's Mr. Fowers is only interested in the integrity of the process, I'm absolutely certain that there will be no further challenges to those provisional ballots and all ballots will be counted as-is without additional legal challenges.
After all, if attorneys under Mr. Godfrey's employ are challenging the provenance of provisional ballots at this point, it will be hard to support Mr. Godfrey's claim that he had nothing to do with the 147-name challenge list or with Mr. Fowers.
If, on the other hand, Godfrey-paid attorneys continue their obstructionist tactics, then it only reveals the true intent: to gum up the electoral works and pervert the intent of the voters of Ogden.
I mentioned a second Std-Ex election article, and here it is. It's similar to Kristen's, but with different numbers. What ought to be apparent... nobody seems to really know how many ballots remain uncounted.
By the way, I hope some of our recent visitors continue to hang around the blog. I have enjoyed posting my views and having them met with ad hominem venomous attacks. As Yogi Berra might have said, if he spoke Latin, "it's res ipsa loquitur all over again". I enjoy hearing opposing views and letting the quality of thought in them speak for itself.
Update 11/9/07 11:10 a.m MT: Kristen Moulton has a story up in the Salt Lake Tribune on election complaints being filed with Weber County and with the County attorney's office.
Update 11/9/07 9:24 a.m. MT: From this morning's SLTrib - "Gloria Berrett, county elections administrator, said Friday afternoon that she and County Clerk Alan McEwan, have decided to seek legal advice concerning the ballots. She declined to say why advice is being sought. However, election workers plan to continue working through today and on Monday, a legal holiday, to scrutinize provisional and absentee ballot envelopes. They want to ensure that only those verified as legitimate will be counted."
We just got off the phone with Gloria Berret, in connection with the above SLTrib article update. Ms. Berret informs us that the verification process mentioned in Kristen's article involves authenticating voter signatures only. This has proven to be a tedious process, due to the large number of provisionals.
Ms. Berret also informs us that election officials have not sought additional legal advice, beyond initial consultations with the Weber County Attorney's office earlier this week.
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216 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 216 of 216I say it is short for "Anti Liberty". This fits in very nicely with the Godfreyite mentality. In any event the writer known as "Antilib" and a couple of variations on that theme, appears to be quite taken with themselves, arrogant and a tad phony. All of which are also Godfreyite characteristics.
On the other had "Antilib" may just be a closet fag who has a bit of self contempt over his secret lusting for the late Liberace.
Somewhat Anti:
Some friendly advice from a long time lurker in these parts: (a) generally not wise to reply to name calling, ranting, etc. or to fire back. Pretty much pointless, leads nowhere and isn't much fun in any case. Just let it pass unremarked, reply to posts/posters you think worth replying to, and that you'd like to hear back from once you've made whatever point it is you're making. (b) Do not generalize about the entire blog, who posts here, who lurks about reading, based on some of the posts or some of the posters. It's a pretty varied and disparate group. I concede, the default reaction of some here --- but only some --- to anyone who disagrees with them, particularly about the Mayor and his entourage, is to attack instantly, both the content of the comment and the sanity, intelligence, and character of the commenter. But not everyone reacts that way. Not by a long shot.
So, do a little picking and choosing. Let the venom pass unremarked and unresponded to.
From my own POV, one of the unfortunate results of the instant attacks on anyone who shows up to argue on the other side of any question relating to The Mayor and his "vision" [politely so called] is that relatively few return to post again , and so conversations that might have been struck up and proved instructive [for several reasons] never get started at all. Carried far enough, the result in the end would be a lot of people endlessly posting "yeah, I think so too" which would get pretty damn dull pretty fast.
Pick and choose and ignore the venom. And never but never respond to it in kind or, better I think, in any way at all. OK, end of wholly unsolicited advice.
PS: in any properly run country, reading Bill Orally, the Loofa King, to children would constitute child abuse.
I think antilib is a frustrated female with low self esteem who hates the women's liberation movement. Perhaps a dominated woman who has bought into the female is inferior notion. She also dislikes and is jealous of strong independent women?
For sure she isn't the only one here that can pull amateur psychological profiles out of her butt!
This is what sums it up....
With the chips on the table, but the gondola plan unconfirmed, why would such large companies make the move anyway? "Well it’s like the stock market," as many of the company’s described to me, "Ogden is ‘within reach’ (as the city’s tagline reads), but its stock is still low." Courtney Boyer of Nidecker describes the city as "in denial about its economic situation."
Opposition to the tramway (among other reasons) has arisen for fear of Ogden becoming the new Park City—over populated and too expensive to live in. However, these entrepreneurs fully believe in Mayor Godfrey’s vision of turning Ogden into North America’s premiere action sports hub. And what if the tramway is not approved? Then the company’s that bought into bad stock will sell. The hub’s core business hope that perhaps in a few years from now Ogden will establish a "cool factor" that will enable it to become the center of action sports (and not just known for its lack of life, police presence and dirt cheap weed).
I find it fascinating that many of you sit on this blog and complain about the mayor and how unintelligent any supporters of his must be, however in Ogden, it's split about fifty fifty. Why do you continue your venomous attacks instead of leading by example and trying to rebuild the bridges that you feel are burned? Many of you feel as though the mayor has personally wronged you, especially with the voter challenge, even though his supporters admit he didn't know about it. There are other reasons that you severely dislike him and "his people" but if you all want the unity and openness that I hear you advocate for, then why don't you start?
Maybe this is why I'm idealistic, I believe that people have some good in them and I believe that the Mayor wants the best for Ogden; he just has a different view then you about how to accomplish that. Maybe if we all stepped back (and I believe the Mayor and "his people" are doing this because the community is so split) and tried to work with the system that we could make Ogden a truly amazing city again. Let's talk about solutions instead of just discussing our hatred.
Young Idealist,
In theory what you say holds merit, however it is impossible to build bridges when the Mayor completely refuses to consider any opinion other than his own (except 2 months before an election). He claims we are a republic, not a democracy, however he appears to equate republic with dictatorship. I'm tired of being dismissed as uninformed, unintelligent, and uncaring because I use logic and common sense. Unity and openness require that both sides work together.
Antilib, have you not noticed that your choice of moniker reflects the negative? By chosing Anti you have branded yourself a naysayer.
Your ridiculous attack on Jason also shows that you are not too aware of your own shortcomings. We all know that Rudi deleted 3-4 of your own posts due to f-bombs and profanity.
Your attack on Dorothy also reflects your denial of everyones right to use the system that claim such an expertice in.
All that aside, why is it none of the pro lying little matty posters on this site will address the most basic commonly asked questions posed by the other side? The ones regarding honesty, ethics and morality.
Do you truely believe that legality trumps all of these? That just because one gets away without being found guilty in a court, that that, alone excuses them?
How if you are a woman, can you justify supporting a guy that abuses his spouse? Is it because she hasn't filed formal charges, therefore it didn't occur? Or the fact he's covered up multiple complaints of sexual harrasment and porn, on city computers in the ecconomic developement dept.
He's lied repeatedly to the City Council and withheld so much information that they requested, in order to make an informed decision.
How do you reconcile all these transgressions? We won't even go into his most recent campain behavior, it speaks for it's self.
Young idealist:
I saw what was going on here and certainly tried the approach you're suggesting for some time.
Then, over and over again, the futility of trying to reason with the mayor has pushed me over the edge.
In this town, there have been two categories of people: those who agree unstintingly with whatever the mayor says or does, and those who are marginalized, ridiculed, and belittled.
About a month before the election I had a long phone conversation with him. I respectfully and carefully laid out points on which I had concerns. He minimized each one, and told me I was wrong over and over.
I finally said, "well, then, we agree to disagree."
He responded with, "if you want to go vote for a second-grade schoolteacher, you go ahead."
That's the kind of conversation that will push one into venomous attacks on this blog.
If you have not seen his rude and condenscending side, then it's because you've never disagreed with him on anything.
Bill C, I believe the posts you are refering to that Rudi deleted were not from antilib but from someone else posting as President, or some such name.
Bill C...
I just typed out a paper claiming that I heard YOU slap YOUR wife. I had it notarized. There, now I am on equal grounds with the claimant you feel is valid.
Has your wife filed a report? I say it happened, I filled out an affidavit and had it notarized, so by your standards- you beat your wife.
Mr. Trentelman's column in this morning's SE [Sunday] seems not wholly unrelated to what we're discussing some at the moment. He wonders if "calling people stupid if they don’t buy" makes much sense as a marketing tactic... or a political one. "That’s what he [Patrick Byrne, CEO of Overstock.com and voucher advocate] did when he said the school voucher vote was 'a statewide IQ test' that Utah failed."
Trentelman add's that Byrne's "attitude was all too typical in the elections we just had:"
On election day, I was torn. Both candidates have good qualities. I’m still not sure I picked the right one.
It wasn’t the candidates I had to ignore, but their supporters. I can’t count the number of times I was told I was anti-growth, or anti-open space, unless I voted this way or that.... Anyone who calls me names earns my scorn."
Exactly.
Trentelman's full essay can be found here.
Ozboy:
I take issue with your supposition regarding my freindship with Captain Morgan; I have had a passionate and mutually beneficial relationship with reebs for 20 years, and have torrid, on-again, off-again affairs with fancy gin. As to my pscyhological profile, I only have the following to offer:
THE SKI IS BEAUTIFUL BLUE
Curm, I think Trentleman had a poor choice of words in his column describing the voter challenges. He wrote that challenges should be targeted and not scatter-gun. While I think I know what he's trying to say here, on its face the phrase suggests that Fowers were not targeting specific voters to challenge. Reading Trentleman's column might leave one with the impression that Fowers just randomly selected a hundred or so Ogdenites to challenge, when there was nothing randomn about it.
Cato, Antilib acknowleged being president and corrected Rudi as to gender, this is the same person.
To on equal grounds, I have no wife to beat, nor did the officer of the year, from OPD report in a deposition that I did anything of the sort.
But set that aside and please defend the ethical and honesty issues.
I have to say that so far all of lying little matty's defenders on this forum have admitted to having held their noses while voting for the guy. Something stated by no Van Hooser supporters.
Cato:
On that point... the deliberateness of the selection of voters to be challenged... it will be interesting to see how the votes of the challenged break down on the Mayor's race. I wonder if the challenged votes that are allowed will be reported separately as a category. I suspect not.
Bill C.
Cato was correct I am not Mr. President, I corrected Rudi on my gender because I thought Mr. President was a nickname he had given to me, it was not one I had ever chosen for myself. It is not my style to resort to using profanity and none of my posts have been deleted because of profanity. A posting Mr. President and somewhat antilib are two different people, you can confirm that with the site’s administrator.
Curm
Thanks again for the advice and I myself have acknowledged the negativity inherent in my name and thats why at the end I added somewhat to the anti. I enjoy a great political debate/argument/discussion and I don't immediately take a counter point to the things that are said on this forum. However, it is not fun or beneficial to either side when the debate erodes to a mere exercise in profane mudslinging. I think you guys have started a pretty impressive forum here and I think intellectual and opposing comments only serve to give this blog more credibility. However, I don't feel like any opposition is truly welcome here.
Ozboy
I clearly wrote that jason w's "posts portray him as....." I was not making a clinical diagnosis and I certainly did not call him nuts, not once, but its interesting that thats where you went. His posts are angry, stuttering, shallow, repetitive and meandering and I don't believe you could make a credible case against my analysis of "jason's posts" at least not by using any of jason's posts. For example:
jason w. said...
You assclown. Go back to school, you silly-ass Geiger. Geiger, Geiger, Geiger, Geiger...
or
jason w. said...
Dear Great Gaggle of Douches:
You all suck. Lying Little Matty Gondola Godfrey is a liar. Wake up happy with that, Geigers. You stupid Geigers. Geiger, Geiger, Geiger, Geiger, Geiger...
I think they speak for themselves.
I truly do think that there are a great number of intelligent and passionate people commenting and reading the posts here in this forum, unfortunately those who just respond with a knee jerk slew of insults against any opposing positions, ruin the discussion.
Again thanks curm, you have always been fair.
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