Wednesday, April 07, 2010

Standard-Examiner: Shell Out For Another Parking Garage?

Horse puckey...

By: enough

Shell out for another parking garage?
Ogden parking structure sought?
Didn't Godfrey give away a parking garage to Marketstar on Kiesel between 24th and 25th?

And didn't the city build a parking garage on Lincoln between 20th and 21st, and give it away to the American Can owners?

Now another to build on the dime of taxpayers and to give away to whom?

Horse puckey...


history tells all said...

They haven't even paid the bonds off for the parking in the junksion since 1980 and they want to give another away. Pay off the bonds first you monkeys and then think about doing another. But just who is the crony that is going to get the bid is really what this is all about.

bike said...

More mass transit, Bike, and foot traffic; less fat dinosaurs driving their couch-on-wheels around.
Less parking downtown, not more.

what will it cost us said...

They don't call them FAT CATS for nothing, always looking for the government to pay for parking for private business. How about meter parking like most real cities.

How crowded is the Junction parking structure? Do we charge the condo owners for the use of the parking structure, is the city liable for damage for residents?

Use the open spaces at Frontrunner and walk.

Get out and walk a few blocks, it won't kill ya.

park this said...

Who dreams and prioritizes these projects up? Taxpayers have zero say in these spend spend spend decisions.

Curmudgeon said...

Here's the problem, guys. Tens of thousands of people, potential customers for any storefront business that might open on that block, don't live near reliable public transit. They live the suburban sprawl N, W and S of Ogden. For a great many people there is no fast, convenient, inexpensive way to get to that block and shop on it. Had Ogden and N. Utah done better planning two decades ago, there might be. But it didn't happen.

And so, any business --- remember all those manufactures outlet stores Hizzonah assured us were just a few last details away from signing leases on the three city rehab properties on those blocks --- thinking of coming in will naturally ask about, and worry about, close-by parking for their customers. Particularly stores that need large numbers of customers to make it, like manufactures outlet stores. If I were such a business owner, I'd certainly ask "where will my customers be able to park close to my store?"

As for the businesses building such a garage on their own, that would hugely increase their up-front investment, and they'd have to be fairly sure they could recoup the cost over a reasonable time by the business they do. For relatively small storefront operations, that's dicey.

Please note: I'm not saying another public-subsidized parking garage back of Washington is a good idea. Merely trying to note why it's going to be difficult to lure businesses into those venues without significant nearby parking, and why requiring anyone interested in leasing one of those shops to build it may be a deal killer.

A well routed trolley line could help bring shoppers downtown, but that's years off. This may be one of those times when it would be best to simply do nothing until the short term [1-5 years out] economic picture is more clear. Building an expensive tax-payer backed parking garage on spec, in hopes it will attract tenants, seems just now like a potentially expensive gamble that may not pay off as hoped.

To see another example of an expensive public gamble that did not pay off as hoped, simply look across the street at all the empty un-leased storefront shops at the Junction on Washington and on Kiesel, two years after the Junction opened. We're all still paying for that mis-calculation. Or look just north to the still mostly vacant much-touted River Project, another one that didn't work out as hoped.

You'd think those expensive mis-calls would generate a little humility and caution in the Mayor's Office regarding its ability to make sound public investment decisions. You'd be wrong.

Curmudgeon said...

Park This:

Sorry, Park, but you're wrong. The taxpayers do have a say in these decisions --- every two years, when they elect City Council members, and every four years when they elect a Mayor.

blackrulon said...

The tens of thousands of potential ccustomers? The vacant buildings on the east side of Washington have no customers. Why not simply run a bus or trolley shuttle to business sites? Enough giveaways. Is it now impossible for something to be built or financed without government handouts?

OneWhoKnows said...

Sounds to me that you think you have all the answers, but you would be wrong. Just because Ogden was once a train town and trollies existed here, they went away because people didn't use them. Do you see any correlation between the two?
Godfrey is looking for his legacy because he knows his time is about over and that people are finally seeing what a real prize they elected. The Junction isn't cutting it and making payments on the 100 million dollar investment, so he's beginning to spin and back away from that one. The River Project is a good idea in concept, but it will be further delayed and scaled down, mark my words. Even his Greiger buddies bailed on him. Ice Tower, how's that one coming? Gondola failed because he went about it wrong with the taxpayers dime.
Don't you see that most of his ideas have failed and that it is time to elect another, maybe even you?
The bottom line is simple, times change and so do people. I'm a native of Ogden for 60 years, born and raised here and I'm for Ogden to grow and improve and remain a very nice place to live. Under the present crooked leadership and so-called vision that he claims he is NOT happening. I suggest the following, get in your car and come to town. If your wife has the car, take the bus. Maybe if both are not possible, walk along all those trails he put in and eventually you'll end up on Washington Blvd. Maybe you can save a tree along the way?

ozboy said...


Actually the trolleys didn't go away because no one was using them. The primary reason they went away was because General Motors and other Bus manufacturers entered into a grand nationwide scheme to eliminate them so that they could sell more buses. The subject has been covered in several historical investigations. Perhaps some one here, like Google Girl, could look into it and come up with some links to the real story about the demise of urban trolleys.

park this said...

Curm, I dont think a new parking lot was ever a subject in the last few elections. So, when I voted, I wasnt looking for a candidate who supported or opposed a new taxpayer financed parking lot.

Curmudgeon said...


Of course there was not a referendum on the proposed parking garage at the last election. But on election day we chose a Mayor [with a long record in office of making not-so-hot investments of the taxpayers money] and people for the city council who would have to vote on the Mayor's economic recommendations over the next four years if he won re-election.

And the voters chose Godfrey. Again. To make economic decisions for the city for another four years. And several Council members who would vote on those decisions when it came time to fund them. In that sense, then, the voters very much had a say on the current proposal: they chose to continue Godfrey in office, and so to continue his policy of investing heavily with public money in speculative projects. Whether they chose Council members who will go along with his riverboat gambler approach to public policy remains to be seen.

Danny said...

Curm, you are so full of it.

We don't have a say on any of this in at the ballot box.

In Ogden we have this blog, so we know more about the candidates. But most places, what does anybody know about city council candidates?

People need to call these council members before they bleed us dry! A proposal like this garage should not see the light of day. The bureaucrats who came up with it should not be funded by taxpayers as they are. Their budgets should be eliminated so we do not have to deal with this crap!

These council memebers walk and knock doors then they get in office and treat us like babies that they need to feed.

The con men who surround the corrupt Godfrey drain off their take, while the fools vote with Godfrey and the public watches TV.

People need to call the jackballs on the council and give them a piece of their mind. They need to get them to CUT CUT CUT! Eliminate this bureaucratic scum!

Stop funding this corruption. Stop acting like jerks! Stop taking our money to pay for Godfrey's schemes!

Danny said...

Anybody seen this video of wholesale slaughter?

All Hail the US

While the city council is thoughtfully reviewing then voting for Godfrey's corrupt scams, the US government is enforcing our nation's values by murdering people and force feeding them on what the latest jackball administration wants.

Does anybody remember this country was founded and thrived on LIMITED GOVERNMENT?

When do we call it TOTAL CORRUPTION?

When does our nation get to where it would make the worst Roman emperor blush if not there already?

Curmudgeon said...


Sorry, Danny, but there was an election, and the Mayor won it. Voters opted to return him to office despite his record of making very questionable investments of the public money in a variety of speculative ventures that did not pan out as expected. And we elected Council members as well to review administrative proposals and decide on whether to fund them or not. Said it before, will say it again: we get the government we deserve. We elect it. If voters fail to inform themselves, the onus is entirely upon them.

Not sure what you think elections are for, but in this country, their main purpose is to put people into office with the power to make decisions on the whole gamut of matters that come before them during their terms in office. We elect a Mayor to do that, and a Council to do that. We may not like the decisions they make, but we [as a people] put them in office charged with the authority to make those decisions. Again, that's the whole point of having elections in the first place.

Don't know where you're coming from, but here in the US, that's what we have elections for. We could both say a whole lot about Hizzonah and his poor management of Ogden's affairs and his poor business judgment. But all of that was obvious, or should have been, last election, and we [the people] still returned him to office. Plain and simple.

Curmudgeon said...


Just to keep the record clear, the film clip records an event that occurred in 2007.

ozboy said...

Mr. Curmudgeon

Just to set the record straight - regardless of when the video was shot it documents the de-humanization of our good old American boys and shows them committing cold blooded murder and enjoying it. Who ever approved the strike, especially the second round, ought to brought to justice.

And before you right wing nut case reactionaries attack me, please note that I too proudly wore the uniform of the US military and would so so again to defend the Constitution. However, I do not consider murdering children and then laughing about it a defense of that Constitution.

Googleboy said...

GM Killed Trolleys?

ozboy said...



Pretty interesting read for sure. I attended a meeting in Detroit in the early eighties where this series of events perpetrated by GM was presented by some naybob of some sort. I vaguely remembered it.

And congratulations on beating Googlegirl to the punch on this one. We can always rely on one of the two of you to steer us to the gory details in our perpetual quest to separate the shit from the shinola.

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