There's business-development good news for Ogden City this morning, gentle readers. There had been rumors floating about that another ski industry oriented equipment manufacturer was ready to move operations to Ogden City; and it appears this is exactly what will happen. According to this morning's Jeff Demoss front-page Std-Ex story, Scott USA has inked a pact to relocate its Clearfield distribution operation to Business Depot Ogden. Scott is a venerable recreation equipment manufacturing warhorse, with sports gear ranging from apparel to high-tech hardware. This is the kind of company that will give Ogden City real credibility in its quest to turn itself into a ski industry hub; and I believe congratulations are in order for the people who put the deal together. Notably, the BDO property is owned by Ogden City, but administered by a private developer/manager. Unlike the troubled Ogden City mall-site, where government officials are attempting to manage things in a true do-it-yourself fashion, the BDO project is run by an experienced property management/development professional, The Boyer Company. While Mr. Demoss's story doesn't provide any details about the negotiations that led up to Scott USA's decision to relocate to Ogden, I think its fair to infer that the process was relatively straightforward and seamless:
Steve Waldrip, BDO project manager for The Boyer Co. and the key figure in negotiations with Scott, said the building project will probably cost from $12 million to $13 million. He said no tax breaks or other incentives were needed to lure the company.Ogden City officials are naturally elated over this world-class business "catch." They're patting themselves on the backs, as reports Mr. Demoss in a second business section story -- and rightly so, I think. They should justifiably congratulate themselves, and we should all give them a tip of the hat, for showing the good sense -- in the BDO instance at least -- of hiring professionals to do a professional's job.
"This is a pretty straightforward deal," Waldrip said. "They made the decision to come here based on its own merit."
One wonders what could happen in the case of the Ogden City Mall site, if our city officials were to toss out Stuart Reid's grandiose central-planning master-scheme, put Boyer or some other professional developer in charge, and allow the downtown property to be professionally-developed, according to the dictates of the free market's "invisible hand".
And what say our gentle readers about this?
39 comments:
There's another thing that's notable, Rudi.
Scott USA evidently didn't require a fancy gondola system to locate in our town.
This is good! And the most significant part is this:
" He said no tax breaks or other incentives were needed to lure the company."
If it is true that this is a straightforward business deal, then those of us who have been advocating that the city back off and let the free market work freely have been proven correct.
In thinking about the mall site non-development, my feeling is that there are probably quite a few developers who have been watching the site. I read somewhere on this board that Citiventure backed out because Ogden City's specifications of what it would allow in there were too stringent.
And then there are the rec center plans, etc., and I am thinking that these things all play into a developer's decision as to whether to go in there. Like---Would their project work with a rec center nearby? Do they want to go in and put up with the year or so of construction it would take to build the rec center? Is the clientele of a rec center workable with what they have in mind? Do they want to conform to what appears to be the micro-management of their project by Ogden City?
In other words, I think that perhaps the city's plans and strictures have played a part in independent development steering clear of the mall site. Also, as you say, BDO is professionally administered, and has been, and Boyer obviously has a track record in management which Scott finds congenial, and it was Boyer, not Ogden City, it seems, who handled this negotiation. In addition, the deal with BDO is that money will flow back into it for a time, as evidenced by the new Ogden City budget. So Scott need not worry about that particular site being neglected or ignored.
And if the rec center does go in, perhaps there will be retail dealing in sports gear around it, and Scott will then be positioned well. From what we know right now, it sounds like a good deal all around.
Scott, Goode, Descente, or anybody else here now or in the future would not have come or ever will come if there weren't talk of the gondola. I think that none of the ski companies had tax breaks or incentives, besides the prospect of a gondola, and Ogden certainly would not be "entering a strong growth period" if the mayor and group had simply done nothing. Try and take the credit and shoot down the City, but know that this is happening because of the various things going on around here.
Amen to opie!
"Scott, Goode, Descente, or anybody else here now or in the future would not have come or ever will come if there weren't talk of the gondola."
Oh yeah, Opie? Perhaps you'd be willing to reveal to us how you're privy to all this information? Do you sit on the board of directors of all these companies? Were you present during all the negotiations? I'd really like to know how you've obtained this information. Enlighten us on your sources, please.
"I think that none of the ski companies had tax breaks or incentives..."
That's good, Opie. That's how the free market is supposed to work.
"...besides the prospect of a gondola, and Ogden certainly would not be "entering a strong growth period" if the mayor and group had simply done nothing."
Who said the Mayor should have "done nothing?" I think it's great that he's "greasing the rails" to lure these companies to Ogden, myself.
"Try and take the credit and shoot down the City, but know that this is happening because of the various things going on around here. "
Nobody's trying to "shoot down the City" so far as I know.
Some people are asking a few questions -- that's all. I will however volunteer that I do have a pronounced "bias" in favor of the operation of the "free market," and against centrally-planned concepts in general. Maybe that's what you're talking about when you talk about shooting down the city.
It seems to me that the companies you've mentioned have all located here absent the gondola that you're so crazy about, BTW. In other words, they've located here knowing that there isn't a gondola now... and the gondola may never happen.
Local circumstances seem to have been favorable enough that these companies have joined our business community anyway. I still don't understand why you believe a gondola system to be an essential, when the facts indicate that's not the case at all.
I'm not against the gondola, by the way. I think it's an intriguing idea, actually.
Of course the devil's always in the details. We still don't know exactly how we're going to pay for it, do we?
Nice analysis, Dian. what ought to be painfully obvious is that no private investor/developer will be interested in any project where maximum flexibility is substantially compromised.
A private developer needs the capacity to "roll with the market punches" as the market develops. That's pretty hard to do when there are government micro-managers controlling every detail and insisting on conformity to a centrally-designed and controlled grand plan.
In one sense Dian, that downtown dirt-pile presents some interesting opportunities. As my 85-year old mother likes to say, it's in the same condition as when her great-grandfather (Lorin Farr) arrived here in 1850.
It's a clean slate. It seems to me that its present condition affords the ideal opportunity to let the property develop according to natural market forces.
Maybe we ought to just slap a "for sale" sign on the old mall property and see who shows up to make their offers. The property could be broken up and parcelled out, and we'd have a couple of downtown blocks that would develop naturally, in the manner that cities and towns have developed through most of the course of human history.
They have located here on the PROSPECTS that there could be a gondola system. Obviously there were other factors (cheap land, etc.), but in my dealings with some of them, just the PROSPECT of the gondola has played an important role in their decisions. That is how powerfull this idea might be.
I have a little spare time on my hands this morning, so I'll take the opportunity to post a couple of interesting articles.
The first article explains how the bustling city of Houston, Texas approaches the issue of zoning.
The second article mentions an interesting anecdote that about the impressions of a Soviet central-planner who visited the City of Houston in 1975 and, then goes on to a few other interesting observations as well.
Before the central-planning commissars jump down my throat over these articles, I'll disclose that I'm not holding myself out as an "expert" on modern urban planning, but I find these articles quite interesting.
I'm basically throwing this out for discussion, okay?
"They have located here on the PROSPECTS that there could be a gondola system. Obviously there were other factors (cheap land, etc.), but in my dealings with some of them, just the PROSPECT of the gondola has played an important role in their decisions. That is how powerfull this idea might be. "
Once again I'll ask you how you know all this stuff. Do you have insider information, or have you been talking to the Psychic Friends Network;-)
If it's the former, please tell us who you are, or at least why you think we should take your word for this.
Thanks in advance.
I know he gets quite a bit of heat here, but I want to congratulate Mayor Matt and any others on bringing in a large player in the ski industry. Like him or hate him, you can't argue that it's not good for Ogden. Kudos!!!
Why don't you ask the guy who "claimed" that the Mormons wanted to buy the mall site, he seems to know quite a bit. And yes, I second the kudos to the mayor.
Opie in Ogden said...
"Why don't you ask the guy who "claimed" that the Mormons wanted to buy the mall site, he seems to know quite a bit."
Why don't we just ask you? You're the guy who's telling us he knows all the good stuff. Don't clam up on us now, Opie, now that the discussion's gotten so interesting...
And yes. Thirds on the kudos. I'm actually a big Mayor Godfrey fan.
Rudi, I've been thinking for quite some time that parceling the mall site off might be the way to go. An intriguing way to do this would be for the city to announce that it is open to proposals--Not exclusively for the whole site, but for whatever parcels developers or business owners are interested in. Make it clear that the city is adopting a hands off approach to the site insofar as developmental plans of its own. Leave this invitation open for 60 days or so and see what you get.
The Episcopal Church already has submitted an offer in the manner.
Allow the people to own something, for heaven's sake, either the building, which they will be constructing, after all, or the land, which they may be buying, or preferably both. I am sure there are downtown building codes and laws in place that they will have to comply with and these should be good enough.
What I am thinking might happen here is that individual business owners then might form informal consortiums of their own. Nobody likes to be first and alone in this sort of thing, but people know each other, and talk might get around, and they might figure out a way to work together there to feed each other's businesses.
I say give them an opportunity to go for it.
In this way, sales and property taxes will be flowing into our coffers instead of having increments flowing out. Sound like a plan?
When everybody else on this site starts giving sources for their allegations, I'll give mine. But since it ain't gonna happen, see you later alligator. Know that I have interviewed some of the ski folks who have moved here as well as had extensive conversations with them, and that's the way it is.
Show em opie! Do not cast your pearls among the swine.
I know the Mayor has been quite busy lately trying to bring businesses to Ogden. Everyone here would be proud of Godfrey if they knew what he has been through lately in reference to SLC's mayor (anderson) sending his henchmen to Ogden demanding Godfrey reveal his contacts and company names of those he is trying to lure to Ogden. Godfrey subsequently had them thrown from his office and city property.
I say congratulations to BOYER and their professional staff of business people who helped pull this deal off. This is something that the little big guy on nine could only dream about accomplishing. He of course is going to blow his horn for all to hear that he and his dream team (the gang that can't shoot straight) pulled this off. The perfect opportunity for more lies from behind the curtain on the ninth floor.
I think this is great for Emerald City, but remember there are no new jobs created for the citizens of Oz, and this is simply a move by a great company from the suburbs into the city. It appears that the move was prompted by Scott needing more space than they had in Clearfield, not because of any thing that this gang at city hall did.
As pointed out in the article, and by other commenters, this was strictly a business deal with NO public money gambled. Another article of proof that the private sector should be doing this development business, not a bunch of public trough sloppers that can't seem to get anything right.
This incidently is the first ski oriented business to come to Emerald City that has many employees even if there will not be any new jobs right away. I believe the much heralded Descente and Good have fewer that 10 employees between them and contribute less to the towns economy than the average convenience store on the corner.
To think that a multimillion dollar company would make a move of this magnitude because of some vague promise that in the future we MIGHT have a gondola is just one more example of the completely idiotic thinking of the Lord Mayor and his circle of sycophants. They really do seem to have their own parallel universe that they live in where up is down and down is up.
Welcome to the land of Oz Scott, your a great addition and I hope your business continues to grow like it has in the past.
Beware of the incompetent central planners at city hall. If they get to close they will screw your deal up!
Just wonderin if "Opie" is short for Opium?
It could explain a lot about what has been happening with the little wizard of Oz and his runnin buddies the last few years.
Opie, the problem with people like you is that you draw these conclussions about the gondola straight out of the air. You offer no support; no have obviously not talked with Scott to see what impact the gondola had; and you just wander around throwing out this "if we build it, they'll come" insanity.
You need to evidence these facts before you go around spouting off about them. So, we'll just consider the source as being insignificant and basically meaningless, someone who'se taking up space rather than providing anything substantial.
Enjoy the ride.
So Rudi's a great-great-grandson of Lorin Farr! It so happens that the powers behind Lift Ogden are great-great-great-nephews of Franklin D. Richards. Farr and Richards ran Ogden City in their day, and how fitting it is that their progeny are still stirring up the animals.
The Salt Lake Tribune of Feb. 1, 1879, laughed until its sides ached as the Farr and Richards factions competed in an approaching mayoral race. The nominating convention quickly deteriorated into mudslinging "until the singular spectacle was presented of brethren ... charging each other with crimes and offenses which constitute the real bond of their union."
Nothing has changed much in Ogden politics.
But as to the gist of today's posting -- I think Dian is right. Can't the city just turn the mall over to the Boyer Company and Earnshaw Enterprises?
The link to the mall's "Grand Plan" is regretfully 3 years old. Might anyone have a more recent one?
As went the BDO, so goes Scott. It's the Boyer Company who made this deal happen, not Godfrey. Godfrey and his gang are "too busy" with the wreck center to even look at offers, let alone try to lure a business into BDO, which is under the auspicies of Boyer.
CityVenture walked out on Ogden after having had enough of Stuart Reid and Mayor Matt. Both Boyer and Miller have yet to sign anything like a deal memo or agreement regarding the mall. And now, suddenly, with Scott moving from Clearfield to Ogden, which I wholeheartedly applaud, credit is given to a foolish idea about some half baked gondola system that is years away.
Opie, you need to go back to class and LISTEN and LEARN. Large corporations DO NOT make magnitudinal moves such as this because a mayor and a few folks like you THINK that a gondola is Ogden's saving grace. The saving grace is to let the city government govern the city and the business people do their business, unfettered with plenty of greased skids.
It amazes me how anal some people are to (one) suggest such idiocy; and (two) to think that anyone would fall for it. Such a waste of words and thought, on such an unrealistic position by such unsubstantuated mumbo-jumbo. A foolish little boy.
Who the hell are these so-called POWERS of Lift Ogden? Can anyone tell us?
I'll back up Opie on this one. Ask Descnete, they are the size of Nike worldwide. Do you think that a company the size of Nike would make a decision like that? Gieger most certainly had to convince their board of directors, just as he said in the article yesterday. I have asked Curt Geiger directly about the influence of the Gondola on the decision, and it most certainly factored in.
I would also like to offer my congratulations to the mayor. Knowing him, I know how hard he has worked for this. Thank you Mayor.
Boy oh Boy Utah Mo Boy, I sure hope that Geiger and the little mayor don't turn any corners real fast, you just might end up with a broken neck!
I'm sure the Samuri in Osaka had to approve Geiger's move to Ogden, but the bottom line is that he is their main man in the US, he makes them lots of money, and a minor move like this doesn't mean squat to a major corporation like Descente. What possible reason could they have for denying his move from Denver to Ogden? Do you really think that these major domo's in Japan would make a move based on some stupid scheme like the gondola that may or may not happen? These are pretty bright business people that don't run around buying into dumb ass ideas in order to make decisions. That is something your idol Matt does, with tax payer money of course.
As for Descente being as big as Nike - so friggen what? What does that mean for the citizens of Ogden? How much taxes to they pay to Ogden? How many employees do they have in Ogden? Last I heard it was 6 or 7! So much for them being the size of Nike! As some one else has pointed out, Descente doesn't mean as much to Ogden as any one of the hundreds of convenience stores around town.
The more you post, the more I am convinced that you're a real live suckin up dolt.
Its evident there are some here that would't be happy if Microsoft moved to Ogden. We should give credit when credit is due just as quick as pointing out mistakes we may perceive. I also personally know that Mayor Matt has worked tirelessly on getting these companies to Ogden despite efforts by SLC to retard progress for SLC benefit. SLC should be the vilan here not Godfrey who OBVIOUSLY wants whats best for Ogden, no matter how you feel about the way he goes about it...
"The more you post, the more I am convinced that you're a real live suckin up dolt."
Now, now, Douglas. Let's not go overboard here. UTmorMAN is a very honest and decent guy. He and I talk on the phone fairly frequently. I'll assure you that he's not a suckup. He's just idealistic.
Think about where your political consciousness was when you were as young as he. Have you lost it totally?
I like the young fellow. I regard him as not only a blogger colleague, but a friend.
Watch your step, fellow gray-haired old dude.
As other posters have said here numerous times, it's smart young fellows like UTmorMAN who are the keys to Ogden's future.
He's mentally tough, too. The insults fall off his back like water off a duck. He keeps on coming back atcha.
I like that in a young feller like UTmorMAN.
Today I was sitting in the Shepherd Union Building at WSU and I had some guy hand me one of the gondola packets. Man, I don't see why some people are so driven to get that thing going. The packet almost makes it sound as if Ogden's future all depends on whether the gondola is put in place. I'm a little skeptical myself.
If stupid twerps like this UtBoy/Godfrey suck up is the future of Ogden, I am moving to Salt Lake! We truly have had enough of the mass idiocy that pervades this administration.
Speaking of SLC, this myth of Rocky trying to horn in on Godfrey's action are truly laughable! Last week when this moronic urban legend first went around it was the Governor Huntsman's operatives that the little jerk threw out of his office! Maybe next time these suck ups spread this tale it will be George Friggen Bush hisself that the heroic mayor throws out of his office for trying to get in on this fabulous success that Ogden is rolling in!
The whole bunch of them are pathetic.
When a major move like Scott's to Ogden is formalized, most entities involved sent press releases to the media. Reporters read these and then make a few calls to get direct quotes from the key players.
The quote from the Mayor said that Scott's presence worked with the grand plan for Ogden and that Scott would be an asset.
The Boyer rep's quote, in which he was named by Wright as the main negotiator, was the one that contained the info about no tax breaks or incentives.
The Scott contact was quoted as saying they were out of space, Ogden had close proximity to the mountains, and that Scott felt Ogden was entering a period of major growth.
What was Not mentioned was the proposed gondola, Lift Ogden, or any part Ogden City played in the negotiations. Two Standard reporters talked to and obtained direct quotes from the principal players, including the Mayor, and they said nothing about those things.
Don't you think that if Lift Ogden, the proposed gondolas, and the Mayor had played a key part in Scott's move, somebody would have mentioned that and these reporters would have put that in?
Also, Ogden recently hired a PR person. Shouldn't that individual have fired something out right away about the part the city played in this move, if it played one?
These things we know---that local government and the private sector are showing themselves as welcoming to sports oriented businesses.
But insofar as this particular deal is concerned, it seems that it was stricttly between Boyer and Scott. If other entitles deserved credit for this, in my opinion that should have been in those two news stories.
If it's found that these other entities should have credit for this, well and good, and they deserve recognition. If I hear the Scott rep say that the proposed gondola was the deciding factor, okay. But if they had nothing to do with it, and certain people are trying to make it appear as if they did in order to support private agendas of support for Lift Ogden or the current administration or whatever, that makes those very entities look bad, like they try to take credit for others' achievements.
Nobody wants to support that.
If Utmo is Ogden's future, and he is really stuck in believing that the city's future is tied to Godfrey types and mythical gondolas that DO NOT serve the public, only a handful of elite skier wanna-bes, then I'm afraid that New Orleans has a better shot at recovering than we do.
What is this foolish obsession with Mayor Matt's crummy little, ego monument gondola? It has 2 stops. It won't cater to the working people who need to get from Monroe to Home Depot. It won't run in the wind or lightening. And it won't access the handicapped.
To even remotely suggest that a gondola running up 23rd to WSC is akin to the re-birth of the railroad is sheer lunacy. Do you gondola supporters actually think that the boys in Osaka and at Scott headquarters sat around the corporate table and said, "and besides the skiing, kthe Mayor has proposed a gondola that may or may not ever happen and because of that, we're moving." Good lord people, this is Descente's Kurt Geiger's home town, that's all. He probably just wanted to come home, and bring his son and 4 employees with him. The lease a floor in a building across from City Hall and drive to work in their 'Vettes. The shipping, the manufacturing, the money....all happens somewhere else. And the damn gondola doesn't have a thing to do with it.
What will Scott Poles & Goggles use a gondola for? They need the space, Boyer, who runs a damn tight ship, had it, a deal was made, and nobody ever mentioned Matt Godfrey or the Gondola, according to every news source there is. And if EITHER had a damn thing to do with anything, don't you think that this new $28k PR gal would have been blowing her trumpet louder than the Angel Moroni?
If this is an example of future leadership, we are in some trouble. It's time you came out of Fantasy Land and looked real hard at the real picture. I'm a supporter of youth, but damn it guys, you need to understand how it all works, and what you reach for regarding this idiotic $25 million gondola, isn't the way.
Scott, along with Descente, Goode, and the rest would use a gondola to have access to nearby locations to test products, have photo shoots, and a number of other things. BTW, Scott makes more than just poles and goggles. They make some of the best mountain bikes around, as well as other products. Heck, I read just today in a magazine that they are introducing a line of skis in America. All of this, along with products from the other companies could be easily tested with the help of a gondola system.
"Scott, along with Descente, Goode, and the rest would use a gondola to have access to nearby locations to test products, have photo shoots, and a number of other things."
Your shear ignorance Mr. UtMoMan is absolutely stunning! Do you have any idea what really goes into a professional photo shoot or a product test? Do you have any idea how much equipment and how many people are involved in these kinds of productions?
And your thinking that all this action is going to get there in a gondola, or that they are going to be doing this sort of thing frequently enough to justify a $25 million dollar public funded grip truck/gondola?
To suggest that this is justification for the gondola idea shows just how unknowing you really are.
Somebody here mentioned that you seemed to have your nose up the mayor's kiester. i don't believe it, I think you have your head up your own ass.
Ignorance is bliss, they say, and these gondola whackos lead the pack.
It's obvious that Utmo and his bunch have absolutely NO IDEA about what's involved in professional photo shoots and or product testing. These foolish souls have yet to walk around the block, but continue to think this garbage up in order to support an idiotic, 25 million dollar, half baked scheme by our rahter unsteady mayor. The sad part is that they believe what they're saying. Guys, ya just can't reach into thin air to come up with this supportive nonsense without any knowledge. Hard to believe that you come up with these outlandish statements. It's even harder to believe that you think you're correct and that we'll buy into this baloney. You offer NO evidence, no studies, no support of any kind. The fact that you say these insipidly stupic things does not make them right. You need proof and facts to make these remarks, yet you offer none.
It's bad enough when a guy doesn't know what he's talking about, moreso when the guy knows he doesn't know what he's talking about, and even moreson when the others know that he knows that he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about, yet continues to talk out of his butt.
I've never seen anything quite like this. The question is, why?
Okay friends, go and ask the Presidents/VPs of these companies. They are their words, not mine.
I've discussed the "parcelling out" option with several prominent Ogden real estate brokers, Dian, and they all agree that it would generally be an economically "healthy" approach.
The fly in the ointment, however, is that nobody I've talked to believes private sales could in any way generate the $10-14 million that the city already has in the property as its cost basis, and such an arrangement would have to occur at a loss. Ogden City simply paid too much for the mall site.
That wouldn't be such an awful thing in my view, as whatever loss that the city might take would be ultimately recovered, by increased property and sales-tax revenues in the long run.
There's an abundance of political ambition within our current government, however, which is why the the administration is so stubbornly sticking to the original centrally-planned grand scheme, I believe. Selling the property at a loss would amount to political suicide for current city officials, I think. And I'm sure several of them have aspirations for higher office.
With their track record of misery, stupidity, and financial failure, I'm sure they'll do just fine. I support their cause, for if that's the case, they'll leave here and go there. Go get it, guys!
"Selling the property at a loss would amount to political suicide for current city officials, I think. And I'm sure several of them have aspirations for higher office."
I've heard of a phenomenon called "being kicked upstairs." It does happen.
So where is opie, utmo, all those guys who support the Mayor and claim that this spoke, being Scott Ski, is because of the gondola? Now that the WRECK CENTER is quickly becoming a $20 million wreck, can the gondola be far behind. Just think, with a little tweak here and a little tweak there, Godfrey can run this fool air transport system right over the oil field and TCE bubble so we can all get a "nose hit!" More to the Regional Draw than was expected.
Instead of a "spoke in the wheels" there's now a "wrench in the gears."
Bad news, ski buff supporters....Rossignol and others just pulled together a multi-million dollar deal to re-locate in Park City. Hundreds of jobs. No downtown gondola, only the trams going from the hotels to the top.
Guess we need more than the gondola idea to lure 'em in. Maybe some more downtown condos for pre-sale.
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