It's no secret that Weber County Forum is strongly strongly opposed to the use by Utah law enforcement agencies of ticket citation quotas. As our regular long-time readers are painfully aware, we've been railing on this subject for several years. That's one reason we were particularly delighted to learn yesterday morning that Rep. Neil Hansen's (D-Ogden) HB-264, which would prohibit law enforcement agencies from requiring officers to issue a specific number of tickets, warnings or complaints within a specific time, yesterday cleared the House Law Enforcement and Criminal Justice Committee by a 6-1 vote, paving the way for the bill to be presented to the House for a vote.
The Standard-Examiner's Loretta Park provides a front page story this morning on yesterday's committee hearing, including a fairly thorough summary of the witness testimony. Missing from this morning's story, however, is any discussion of the comments of committee member Rep. Carl Wimmer (R-South Jordan), who gently chastised some witnesses who testified against Hansen's proposed bill. As it turns out, Rep. Wimmer is himself a retired police officer, with personal experience with ticket quotas. As Rep. Wimmer commented, he himself had been admonished and denied promotions during his career in law enforcement, for failing to write three tickets a day; and he expressed his disappointment with individuals who refused to even admit the plain fact that ticket quotas exist at all. It would have been better, Rep. Wimmer commented, if advocates of ticket quotas were at least to concede that existing ticket quota systems are a useful law enforcement management tool, and argue from that position, rather than to mendaciously deny that such systems exist at all.
All in all however, reporter Parks provides a good writeup; and we were pleased to find this morning that the Standard-Examiner didn't bury this story somewhere on one of its back pages.
As an added bonus for those readers closely following this bill, we provide a link to the State Legislature's website, where a Real Player audio recording of yesterday's hearing is available. Our readers can fast forward to the last 35 minutes or so of the recording, for a sampling of the arguments, pro and con, which will be be no doubt re-argued as this bill progresses through the Utah Legislature.
We'd like to extend our congratulations this morning to Representative Hansen, along with our best wishes for success with this bill during this new legislative session.
And what say our gentle readers about all this?
Update 1/24/08 3:48 p.m. MT: The Salt Lake Tribune's most excellent Std-Ex veteran reporter Cathy McKitrick also has a story on this subject, published shortly after we published our main article, wherein Ms. McKitrick drills right down to Rep. Wimmer's comment, mentioned above:
Police agencies have long denied persistent rumors and complaints of traffic-ticket quotas, but a former cop now serving in the Legislature says they are real.Hopefully Rep. Wimmer will make himself available for testimony in further legislative proceedings, especially any upcoming upcoming Senate committee hearings.
"I worked for a police department and had to write three tickets every day. That was a quota, and they exist," said Rep. Carl Wimmer, R-Herriman, a former West Valley City and South Jordan officer.
Wimmer's revelation came during a legislative committee session Wednesday where lawmakers discussed Ogden Rep. Neil Hansen's HB 264, that would ban such mandates.
11 comments:
Reading the comments of Ogden Police Chief and Sen. Greiner [Republican, Ogden] in which he insists that no quota systems exist, and certainly not in his department in Ogden, I found myself wondering, yet again, why he is not asked, every time he says that, this question:
"Chief Greiner, if there are no quota systems in place now, then isn't it true that a law banning them will in no way affect your department or any other in the state since the law would forbid police departments to do what you insist they are not doing anyway?"
We do not have a traffic quota system and by damn we ain't gonna give it up!
It is totally amazing the blatant lies these opponents of Hansen's bill use against it. My mother used to call such things "Bald Faced lies". That fat ass Johnson's statement is a typical example wherein he first denies it, then admits it! -
"Ogden’s police officers have not had a ticket quota as part of their performance evaluation. The number and type of citations an officer issues is one of 17 factors in an officer’s annual evaluation"
and then the most chilling is when the Chief of police of Ogden gets up in front of his fellow law makers and law enforcers and says a flat out "Bald Face Lie":
“I have not seen any proof of a quota system,”
It is indeed a sad day in our Country when a sworn police officer and Chief of Police can so casually tell such blatant lies. Of course I think most people around here that know anything at all about the Chief knows of his character flaws. Certainly every one on the OPD who do not share those insidious flaws know his true colors.
Greiner also, in his most disingenuous mode, tries to deflect the "motive" for quotas away from the cash cow it is for the cities and police departments when he says:
"about 65 percent of any funds received from traffic citations goes to the Legislature to use in 13 programs, such as emergency medical services and crime victim programs. About 17.5 percent goes to the municipality in which the ticket was issued, and the remainder goes to the law enforcement agency that issued the ticket"
Notice he doesn't put a number to the cut the police department takes on each ticket written - that being 17.5 percent. So between the city and the police department they take a 35% slice of each ticket. That is a very large sum of money extracted by the cities and police each year from the hides of the citizens. I mean we are talking many millions of dollars. In other words plenty of motive for the cities and police departments to continue this insidious practice of fleecing the citizens with the old one two punch of ticket quotas and kangaroo courts that adjudicate them.
And you thought Sheriff Coltrane from Hazzard County was a sleazy work of art!
Great effort by Representative Hansen, perhaps the only honest politician in Weber County, if not the whole state.
Unfortunately his bill isn't going to get through the legislature. The power broker NeoCons that control this state are not going to deprive their pals at the local level this spoilage they now enjoy from this scam. And you better believe it is a scam that returns many millions of dollars to the cities practicing it. That is why the ULCT is against this bill!
Greiner will do some horse trading behind closed doors with his fellow Republicans and agree to kill this in the Senate.
Evil is as evil does.
This is very funny, where OPD Chief Greiner says this: “First, I have not seen any proof of a quota system...”
The problem apparently is that Chief Greiner hasn't exactly looked for the evidence; and it's apparent he hasn't "looked" very hard.
Here's Greiner's own OPD "Performce Evaluation" PEP sheet, which Greiner probably has in an internal file somewhere. It's under Chief Greiner's nose, but apparently he's too busy holding down two jobs to take a look at it.
Down in the lower left hand column you'll find reference to a traffic citation quota system, whereby Ogden Police officers can improve their pay ratings, by issuing tickets according to a fixed tickets written daily system.
A probably nore accurate description for this would a "Motorist Bounty," we think. Traffic Citation Quota doesn't quite cut it definitionally in the Ogden City case.
What Chief Greiner's Ogden City system does in the final analysis, however, is to let OPD officers "opt in" to "Da Chief's" Traffic Citation Quota Syatem.
There's no other possible way to interpret it, we submit.
Rudi, Greiner has three jobs. You left out the ass kissing of his boss, that's around 40 hours per week also.
What in this world has happened to Utah. The SL Trib reports that a Utah Congressman today told the Utah legislature "to prepare for less oil flowing to the country. " And he told the legislators " now is the time to apply for federal transit money -- before a critical mass of other states begins lining up to seek the funds.... "The competition is going to get more intense..." he said. "Utah is trying to accelerate its transit plan, and I would submit to you that now is the time to accelerate that process before a lot of people get in line."
And he spoke to the legislators about the sorry state of Utah's health care, and the need to muster state legislators and governors to overcome presidential vetoes to fix things:
Utah is 49th in per-capita health care coverage for its children [he said]. President Bush vetoed a bill that would expand coverage for children's health care, and the House was unable to muster the votes to override the veto.... "Lots of states are looking at different ways to approach the issue... [and] "What it's going to take is governors of both parties coming back to Washington, saying 'We're ready...."
A congressman from Utah told the Utah legislature all that? Sacre blue! What is happening? Of course, the Congressman was Utah only Democratic Congressman. But still.
The story can be found here. Will someone please send his comments on transit funds to the Mayor, whose blocking of Ogden's application for trolley or bus rapid transit funds is now beginning its third year, all to preserve his gondola dreams?
Greiner also spends plenty of time kissing the ass of his brother in law the undertaker.
Let's see, he gets retirement money from the Army for his lackluster career as a weekend warrior. He gets his police pension. He gets his salary as chief of police (yes, he is a double dipper). And he also gets a salary from the State for being in the Legislature. So he is sucking off FOUR public tits all at the same time. Not bad for a dishonest, incompetent, low intelligence brute who isn't worth a pinch of shit.
Here here Viktor
Old Viktor sure has got Greiners number!
In addition, I might add that Greiner is petty, mean and a real coward without his gun and backup.
Why are the police chiefs against the Citizens?
Because their Republicans!!!
If Greiner has not seen "proof of a quota system" then he must have not been a very good investigator or has been sitting at the chief's chair too long and forgot how to look for evidence. Especially the obvious right in front of him.
I don't care what he chooses to call it, it looks like a quota to me. If a bear defecates in the woods, it does not matter if you call it crap, poop, or shit, it is still fecal matter.
Rudi, that performance evaluation says at the top Traffic Officer. Does this apply to all patrol officers or just to Traffic Officers (if there is a difference)?
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