I have to hand it to Don Porter, though. After wandering a little bit, this editorial actually finally cuts to the chase. It frankly addresses the precise question many of us have been asking. Even assuming we citizens are alright with the general concept -- mad or not -- who exactly will be asked to pay for it, we ask? Apparently there's been a recent "shift" in the approach to the problem of project financing among the gondola-boosters, the Std-Ex editorial writer reports. Bingo, Don Porter, I say!
For a time, the gondola's supporters imagined they might be able to sell the idea as mass transit, and thereby snare massive federal and local transit funding to help pay the construction costs. But a thorough transit study put that idea to rest.
Now Lift Ogden is frank in its description of the intra-city gondola: It's a tourist attraction, something that will perhaps ferry students to Weber State, but that will be foremost a unique asset to draw skiers to Ogden via a soon-to-come commuter-rail station, on up to Malan's Basin and, perhaps someday, over the top of the mountain to Snowbasin. And it will enhance the city's already growing reputation among ski-industry companies -- a handful of which have relocated to Ogden in the past year.
It's audacious, if not mad. But what has us intrigued, and inclined to support it, is what a pair of our editorial board members were told recently during a meeting with Ogden Mayor Matthew Godfrey: The city portion of the gondola would only be built at the same time as the university-to-Malan's Basin line, and it would be financed entirely with private funds -- the city's contribution would be the rights-of-way along the surface streets.
We've been told the same by members of Lift Ogden: The business community will find the funds and build this thing.
That, in our book, is a vision we can get behind. It's not mass transit, as we remarked in an August editorial, but a tourist ride. It's to be paid for with private funds -- including operation and maintenance in the years ahead.
I had an interesting telephone conversation with one of the "Lift Ogden" folks a couple of days ago, in which we discussed the "financing" obstacle. He told me that a private investor group was in the process of being assembled, with the object of at least contributing to the construction of the downtown gondola leg. I heard the same thing in last Tuesday's "Lift Ogden meeting, and Bob Geiger told me the same the next morning. The Std-Ed article further corroborates that, of course. The "devil's in the details," after all, and the financing of this project is one devil of a detail.
I hope the Std-Ex is right, and that the taxpayers of Ogden won't be expected to pick up the tab on this, if the project indeed moves forward. And in terms of selling this plan to the public at large, I believe a well-heeled group of local citizens with cash on hand would work wonders in selling this plan to the lumpen townfolk. It's encouraging to hear that out local gondola-boosters are at least talking about putting their money where their mouths are.
If they can do it all with private money I say, "let's do it."
I do have a couple of questions, though. When they speak of "private funds," are they speaking of strictly local private investors, or is it public bonding they're talking about, in whole or part? If municipal bonding is involved, public property security issues come into play, public property is put at risk, and the financing therefore isn't strictly "private."
And another question -- why are we talking about this right now, with a municipal primary looming in a little more than two weeks? It strikes me as odd that this project is being frantically brought to the public forefront by the Std-Ex editors at this time, when we could be devoting our attention to the dismal records of our current city council rubber-stamp majority block-vote, who haven't accomplished very much in the last two years, other than to drive Ogden city deeper into debt. As the Std-Ex editorial says, this gondola dream has been alive "for decade, after decade, after decade." It's not as if we need to solve this decades-old problem in the next week or two. What's up with this anyway, I ask? A skeptic might even come to the conclusion that somebody's trying very hard to obfuscate the real issues, and to change the subject, right on the eve of the upcoming elections. Now's the first time in a couple of years to replace a couple of citizen-unfriendly councilmembers! Why isn't the Std-Ex talking about that?
What about our gentle readers? Does anybody have anything to say about this situation, other than just to roll their eyes?
As an added bonus, today's Std-Ex editorial cartoon from the always-excellent Calvin Grondahl, (and a tip of the hat to Centerville Citizen for the suggestion):
16 comments:
Did anyone notice the platform shoes that Godfrey is wearing in today's Grondahl cartoon?
Oh wait, he's sitting in a booster seat too. I guess I missed that one.
Relevant reader letters from today's Std-Ex:
As a community, let's not buy 'snake oil'
Taxpayers likely to pay for Ogden changes
Support the mayor and his plan
If the downtown-to-WSU gondola could be built entirely with private financing (assurances for which I find highly suspicious), and if Lift Ogden drops once and for all the preposterous claim that the gondola constitutes public transportation, then who cares? Let them build it.
But the irritation with this whole shebang won't go away, and that's because the gondola craze still smacks of mischief, a red herring to deflect gullible public attention away from rottenness in Ogden. The filling of that gaping hole in the ground that once was the Ogden Mall is the only game in town, and until that is done, what else matters? The Godfrey administration has squandered more than its fair share of opportunities to put Ogden back together again. Meanwhile, Dec. 31 fast approaches, after which, we're told, the RDA law slams the door on tax increment money for wreck center construction.
And then what?
Private investors huh? Maybe Chris Peterson can take up a collection.
The city portion of the gondola would only be built at the same time as the university-to-Malan's Basin line, and it would be financed entirely with private funds -- the city's contribution would be the rights-of-way along the surface streets.
Yo-ho. From being "two separate projects" before, they have now gone to "only be built at the same time."
This is unusually phrased, "only to be built at the same time," and I imagine its meaning to be that the two legs are no longer separate projects.
Why.
Why do they both have to be built at the same time? Why this change?
It's called "linkage," Dian....Godfrey's new buzz word. Downtown, linked to WSU's campus, linked to Malin's Basin, eventually, as soon as the two principals make-up (and you just know they will) linked to the top of Snow Basin. Except for the lowest link, it somewhat makes sense, provided the Devil in the Details don't get loose and pull a fast one on us.
And Moroni, yours is probably the most well versed, well written, most logical posting I've read on this here blogsite, and when one considers posters such as Dian and Toad Hall, that's saying something. But damnit, man, this one today is just flat brilliant.
Bravo!
MM said:
" The filling of that gaping hole in the ground that once was the Ogden Mall is the only game in town, and until that is done, what else matters?"
And speaking of that, in today's Trib, we find that the feds are going to help us with clean-up but they are "awaiting the city's application for “brownfields” assistance," and they haven't run the new tests yet because "the drilling crews are busy on other projects."
One question seems to have been cleared up finally, however:
"Environmental tests at the north end of the 20-acre site, where The Treehouse Museum is being built, found no pollution, museum director Lynne Goodwin said this week."
Maybe the Treehouse Museum paid for its own tests. Am very glad to hear there is nothing there.
Thank you again, Kristen Moulton.
Ogden to get help with testing old City Mall site
Interesting read, yesterday's Editorial in the local newspaper. Some history, some facts, so speculation, some attitude, some change. All regarding the gondola, or maybe it should be said, "the gondola system."
Having been brought to the forefront several times in the past, and basically rejected, it's now back, looming larger than ever, the city's future tied to it like a passenger's skis. I have to debate that aspect, but having a "properly financed and constructed gondola " (wonder what happened to the TRAM idea) running inconspicuously (if that's indeed possible) up the South side of Malin's Peak, through Strong Canyon, to either a Malin's Basin Resort or to a tie in with Snow Basin, might not be too bad of an idea. Done right, and I emphasize the word RIGHT, it would most likely be an asset to the community.
The ski industry, the tourism industry, and sightseers of all ages would benifit from its existance. It's construction alone would bring a few jobs to town; it's maintenance, and that of the resort, would also add to our job force, and if Lift Ogden and Descente Ski is correct, more ski businesses should arrive, bringing more jobs. Not alot wrong with that picture. Also, I think a ski town concept is much better than the state of malise we now enjoy. At least there's some movement, which is sorely needed.
However, the Mayor claims that it's necessary to build his "downtown leg" at the same time as the "mountain leg" (my quotation marks). I'm not sure I follow his reasoning, or its importance to do so. My thoughts, and I'm but one individual (but I do talk with and listen to many of our citizens), are that this downtown leg is quite premature. Too many questions remain unanswered, questions such as: will it serve the public as transportation? how will it really be financed? how will it be maintained? what is its utility? how will it impact the environment and the people's property it passes?
Until those questions, and a myriad of others, can be answered to the satisfaction of ALL THE PEOPLE, this idea should be placed on hiatus. Too many variables; too many pitfalls; too many unknowns. Reminiscent of many of the Mayor's other projects, where he blindly charged forth, disregarding the downsides, and came up empty handed at a great deal of expense to the City.
Ogden doesn't need a broken down or unfinished erector set running through the heart of town, a track, if you will, leading to the dirt lot that is the former mall site, for all to see, citizens, visitors, and businesses alike.
As they say, one step at a time.
Thanks for the info, Bob G. I appreciate your detail and candor.
What you're describing would be an essentailly private project, where costs would be mainly borne by private investors, which is as it should be. If this project proceeds as you describe it, I doubt there will be much public opposition. As a matter of fact I believe many local citizens who were previously sitting on the fence will rally around this project. The public benefits of such a project are quite obvious, in my view, so long as public funds are not substantially put at risk.
I appreciate your checking in at Weber County Forum, and hope you'll respond with further information as further questions arise, despite the bad manners of one of our forum regulars.
Yours this kind of dialogue-promoting comment that I envisioned when I set up this site; but the dialogue process won't work unless we hear from all the "players."
I like your passion and enthusiasm too.
And an aside to Ozboy: Years ago, a Justice of the United States Supreme Court explained, "I don't know how to define it, but I know it when I see it." He was talking about obscenity. He might as well have been talking about art.
I deleted a post of yours this morning which might be described as art. I know a troll flame when I see it, though, and I thus banished it to the WCF Dungeon early this morning, after some deliberation.
Try to understand that I invited Bob Geiger to participate here, as a guest in my cyber house. It's a complete waste of my time to try to maintain a forum such as this, if newcomers like Bob are greeted by cranky old regulars, who immediately jump down their throats.
So B. Gieger, what "accomplishment of great things" have you been personally responsible for? In fact lets expand that question to include the Mayor or any of the team whose finger prints are all over the crime scene that is represented by this obcene debt our town has.
If you're anything beyond daddy's helper, and apparently now chief apologist and propoganda minister for the Lift Ogden group, why don't you tell us about it? Who have you worked for besides the old man? What qualifies you and your posse to decide what is best for Ogden's future?
While you're at it why don't you tell us about all the resorts the propoganda says Peterson has built?
And how about the mayor's resume before he got his hands on millions of free public money and an obedient city council?
By the way, as a long time and very successful business man I would advise you to get the big hotel guy's signature on a firm contract before you order the Gondola cars.
I would also like to repeat that I am all for either or both Gondola's as long as you don't try to build it at the expense of, and on the backs, of the common folks of Ogden.
Your last post on the other thread incidently was pretty good and appeared to be somewhat factual. At least it didn't seem to be as full of BS and hype as your other posts. I think your whole group would have a heck of a lot better chance of success if you played it straight and knocked off the coy little games.
Oh, also I am still smiling over your little story about the New York business man who couldn't wait to buy a condo only a block away from Roosters. To inhance it a bit, I have taken the liberty of adding into my retelling of the story that the rich guy lived on the upper east side a block away from Elaine's!
And finally I would be more than happy to repeat to your face any thing I have ever written herein. Let me know when and where, hell I'll even buy lunch. One condition tho, no knives or brass knuckes and if you get me down real quick you have to back off before my pace maker gives out. Deal?
BobG
I am duly impressed. I am always very proud of Ogden boys who go out in the world and kick a little ass.
However, I still stand by my position of opposition to what I consider an evil empire that has gained control of Ogden.
Unfortunately your group has become synonomous in my mind, as well as most citizens, with the Godfrey administration. Perhaps it was your initial tactics and the general perception of the gondola as another one of Godfrey's far fetched schemes that do not address the real and very ominous problems facing our home town.
I really don't dislike most rich folks, just some, and I don't even begrudge them their toys. I am just totally opposed to them passing the tab off onto the common people.
How about lunch at Roosters? I hear it's a world class joint. Hope you don't mind if I order the Crow.
Looks like Ozboy should order a double order of crow, well done.
Daddy's little helper, huh? Remember, he who assumes, looses.
OzBoy fears nothing but the United States Marines and the Internal Revenue Service!
And Crow can be quite delicious if sauteed, over a medium flame, in butter with a squeeze of lemon. It is the only dish known to help build wisdom. Wisdom comes in real handy in identifying BS and arrogant officials.
Sorry to be the one to tell you this Bob but I've eaten at Roosters, Roosters isn't exactly a world class restaurant! But I will be in contact in a week or so, and look forward to you changing my mind on that and the Mayor. If you are able to do either I will give you my good conduct metal and expert marksman badge to add to your undoubtedly large personal collection. I have had both for a very long time, in fact since way back when I actually had good conduct.
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