There are two hazardous materials, petroleum and trichloroethylene (TCE), which have been identified at a twelve-foot depth, in concentrations which exceed state and federal maximum levels, according to Utah Department of Environmental Quality scientist Mark Novak:
Novak said the city's second round of soil and groundwater tests showed petroleum concentrations as high as 520 parts per million. The regulatory limit is 10 parts per million. Concentrations of tetrachloroethylene, a solvent used in dry-cleaning and metal degreasing, were as high as 13 parts per billion, more than twice the limit.In other words, a third round of tests has now been demanded by the DEQ, and the agency isn't quite ready to give the Rec Center project the "thumbs up" -- at least not until the real tests have been performed and evaluated. They're going to have to drill deeper, as the headline says.
Not knowing how to interpret John Wright's new data, I put in a call to a scientist friend that I mentioned in the comments to another article, and spent about 30 minutes discussing the situation with him this afternoon. My friend has been employed as an environmental quality scientist in the State of Florida for most of his post-collegiate adult life; and I regard him as an expert on the subject. I asked him whether any conclusions could be reasonably drawn from the information contained in the two newspaper articles. I'd already emailed the earlier Kristen Moulton article, and we went over John Wright's article over the phone.
The short answer: No final conclusions can yet be drawn solely from the data in the two articles, except that a serious contamination problem can't yet be ruled out, without more information. On the other hand, high TCE levels at twelve feet creates a high probability that higher TCE concentrations may exist deeper in the ground, and this could be the "tip of the iceberg," in the words of my expert, for the following reasons:
The problem with TCE relates to its unique physical properties, he explains. It's liquid, heavier than water, and quite volatile. It can cause lots of peculiar problems once it's leaked into the soil. What happens is that it drains with gravity through the soil until it meets an impermeable barrier layer like rock, where it will either continue to flow downward and laterally -- if there's a downward slope -- or start forming an underground pool, if it comes to rest on a flat or concave underground surface. If it forms such a pool, then it exhibits another property -- volatility. Once it starts to pool up, it begins to evaporate (just as water does at room temperature,) and will permeate the soil again as a gas, moving both upward and outward. After that, it will again condense and return to a liquid state, where it will again pool up, once it drains through the soil to an impermeable layer. The process repeats over and over again over time, and a fairly localized spill can thus saturate and contaminate the soil and bedrock in a wide area around the original spill.
Two other physical properties, toxicity and oderlessness, are the real problem. The stuff can't be detected by odor, (by the human olfactory system,) even when it's reached harmful levels. Here the substance's volatility comes into play again. The tiny TCE molecule can even permeate relatively porous concrete foundations when in gaseous form, and cause serious health problems to occupants of buildings located on TCE-contaminated sites.
It's nasty and tricky stuff, according to my friend, the expert.
My friend just laughed when I asked whether the problem might be resolved before the end of the year mall project "drop-dead date." He explained that the environmental quality cops are really wary of TCE right now, and the perceived danger level keeps rising as the scientific data flows in. "Don't expect Utah DEQ officials to go easy on the Ogden City project just because of a tight time-line." he said.
The good news: the oil contamination is apparently no big deal. It can be cured by simply hauling off all the contaminated dirt.
And more good news! The "brownfield" designation that Ogden City officials seek will be very helpful in the long-run, my expert says, if the mall-site turns out to be environmentally dirty. The EPA has lots of federal money available for site cleanup, as long as Ogden City doesn't mind waiting in a very long line. That's what many other cities like Ogden are doing right now, he adds. The Feds are somewhat serious about TCE cleanup, I guess.
There it is, for what it's worth.
Oh yeah. There's one more thing. There's even a blog that's dedicated to discussing TCE contamination. The Ogden situation is even mentioned there, too. I haven't had time to check it out myself; but maybe some of our gentle readers would like to do so.
Comments anyone?
Update 9/06/05 -- 10: 24 a.m. MT: Please take note that I've added The TCE Blog, (the blog mentioned in the preceding paragraph,) to the Weber County Forum National Blogroll, which is located in the right sidebar. You'll find an abundance of information on TCE contamination there. As an added bonus, you'll find that a new article, concerning Ogden City's situation, has been posted there today, along with a very gracious welcome to all Weber County Forum readers.
19 comments:
Well, I told ya....contamination can be a real nasty condition that has to be resolved prior to anything being built or money being lended. Utmo and that gang nonchalantley dismiss it, as does the Mayor, as saying that contamination is often found in many construction sites. What they fail to mention, in their "spin," is the time and cost necessary to resolve the problem. Even something that seems as minor as digging up oil stained dirt and hauling it way can become a nightmare. Asbestos may not be far behind, and that product the city owns for time and eternity, even if the site is encapsulated and the stuff hauled off to a dump.
This can be serious business, especially with a time line. I'll bet the
Gov't is ready to lay down all the enrgy that is going into the Gulf Coast clean-up and put Ogden's mall site in front. That Gulf Coast, as it should, will be on the front burners with EVERYONE'S attention for weeks or months to come....money, hazmat crews, the works.
Godfrey should have forseen this possibility prior to buying the mall site. There's this thing called an Abstract of Title that shows everything ever built on the land and a glance at that could have tipped the City off that something might have leaked somewhere. Or, at the least, he should have had the site inspected a year or two ago, before sinking this time and money into it. And the City Council, exzcept for Wicks and Garcia, rubber stamped it with little or no research and knowledge.
And, in the Mayor's words, EVERYTHING depends on this Recreation Center, other businesses, Miller Theaters, Boyers, et al, even the freakin' gondola. And here he is, faced with either a "brownfield" designation, which I'm sure will attract builders and developers like the plaugue, or testing and cleaning.
And some people think that the City officials should be in development. Hell, they can't even jump the first hurdle. In fact, they didn't even recognize the first hurdle.
Brace yourselves. It may be....
A Plume.
I went to the blogsite Rudi referred to, and under Utah, where it talks about the mall site, the blogger wrote something like----It is hard to know whether they are talking about trichloroethene (TCP) or tetrachloroethylene (PCE.) and then went on to post the article. I think both terms are used in the article, but both are solvents and treated much the same way, it seems.
Nontheless, we should probably find out which one we have.
Being of an inquiring mind, I looked up PCE and found an article dealing with contaminants and the clean-up of Edwards Airforce Base:
"Environmental plumes are caused by contamination sources that seep into groundwater and expand in much the same shape as the fashion plume. The contaminant can move or spread depending on the geological makeup and water flow of an area.
According to environmental officials, plume is an accurate description of the movement of the contaminants."
This is what Rudi is describing: the movement of this solvent. This movement is called: a plume.
"Plumes of trichloroethene (TCE) and tetrachloroethylene or perchloroethylene (PCE), are a much more complicated problem. The contaminants, both solvents, are heavier than water, causing them to sink to the bottom of groundwater and sometimes into fractured bedrock below the groundwater. When this happens, the process of removing the contaminants is harder if not impossible...
...Cleaning up TCE and PCE requires officials to remove contaminated water from the ground. They separate the water from the TCE or PCE contaminant and find a process to best neutralize the contaminant without creating a new environmental hazard. "
This article about TCE and PCE also includes several other ways of clean-up currently being tested.
After reading this, I don't see how this could Not be a plume. That is what this stuff does. Makes a plume. It's how it works when it's in the groundwater. When it moves around and contaminates further areas, this is what is called a plume.
Plumes
It isn't a plume. Mayor Godfrey already told us it isn't a plume. It couldn't be a plume, since he knows what's really going on, and he never lies and is always right.
That's a very good link, Dian. As usual, your research goes above and beyond the the ability of the average concerned citizen.
Yes, my expert and I discussed the effect of fractures in the bedrock. Indeed, the existance of a major fault line, the Wasatch, within a few blocks of the mall-site raises problems, which we discussed. He said fractures associated with that ground-fault could be highly problematic, clean-up-wise.
We also talked about the differences between trichloroethylene (TCE) and perchloroethylene or tetrachloroethylene (PCE). They're both similar enough in physical properties though, he said, that he said they were often referred to generically as TCE equivaalents, even though PCE molecules are heavier in the element carbon, and present special cleanup problems.
One other nuance that we discussed was whether there had been any mention of heavy metals. He told me that the presence of high readings of heavy metals, along with high levels of TCEs, usually points to auto, radiator and machine shops as the source of such mixed contamination, whereas the absence of these associated metallic elements usually points to dry cleaners and print shops as most likely contaminent sources.
In this connection, I mentioned that one of our readers had pointed out that the Standard-Examiner had operated for a time very near the old mall site. He then mentioned that he'd worked on a cleanup near the Orlando Sentinel, where high-level TCE contamination had been linked to newspaper operations, and ultimately resulted in litigation.
I'm linking one article referring to the Orlando Sentinel problem here.
There were several other points that we discussed which I didn't discuss in my article, mainly for the sake of brevity, including vinyl chloride, another toxic compound, which my friend characterized as a byproduct of the breakdown of TCEs. This is also mentioned in the above article, although there seems to be some dispute whether it can be so characterized.
Is there a chemistry professor in the house?
These are the same solvents that Hill is mitegating around the AFB. In Roy, Riverdale, South Weber, Layton, Syracuse and Sunset.
But again....no freakin' need to worry, people. "Ity isn't a plume or anything," said our illustrious Mayor, Mad Matt. He told us that this was just a "minor" inconvenience that had to be dealt with and would be quickly resolved. It happens all the time, he said (paraphrased).
I'm not a chemistry professor, but I am a realist and the problem really stems from a bunch of ignorant people thinking they are developers/builders who obviously don't know what the hey they are doing, doing it anyway. They spent millions in buying the mall site, millions more to tear it down, and will spend millions more to clean it up.
The Ogden Standard Examiner was right across the street and operated for decades in the Kiesel Bldg. Goodyear or Goodrich Tire was on Grant; dry cleaners and laundrys, Read Brothers (tanning hides, etc.), Lock shops, you name it, they were there, spilling chemicals, cleaning goods and spills, washing who knows what down the drain. And these "leaders" of ours just charged right into the fray without any thought of possible contamination and or, if found, what the consequences would be. The Mayor thought it up, most likely at the urging of Stuart Reid (who has disappeared, like a college coach who violates the rules then abandons the team, leaving it to pay the NCAA penalty while the coach assumes another, lofty position with a new team), and Safsten, Jorgenson, and the remaining members of the Gang of 6 hurriedly voted on the idea, and here we are, stuck with the whole mess.
There are two obvious factors here: complete mismanagement and what to do with the mall site. Hopefully, we'll put somebody else in charge of the later.
Thanks Neil.
I suspect many of our readers will be researching and following developments at your excellent site.
I'll be adding your blog to my blogroll today, BTW, for the convenience of our WCF readers.
Most of the citizens of Ogden City are completely oblivious to the potential problems existing on our downtown redevelopment site -- so far.
A few of us will be working to correct that deficiency, I'm sure.
I laughed for half an hour after I read the "Plume" post... indeed... it is a plume.
When I first read Godfrey's quote, I thought it was in reference in exaggeration to a nuclear cloud on the mall site... the infamous "plume". If the mayor was indeed making a reference to the evironmental term plume as it described the movement of contaminants like TCE then I for one misunderstood his quote in the Trib.
On the other hand, if he was exaggerating... then it makes the cosmic joke even more rich... it is indeed a "plume"... and a troublesome one. While I enjoyed the irony, I must say that I wish it wasn't at the taxpayer expense.
While the mayor has also found a loophole that would allow him to demand the site clean-up come from previous owners, I would think that it would be nearly impossible to determine which former business caused the contamination. With the plethora of businesses that have been located on the site in past years, how would the courts determine exactly who is to blame... is the business still in existence?
Either way... the tax increments seem to be a lost cause at this point. Any bets on how much this is going to cost when the dust settles?
Rudi, did your expert mention whether or not this "vaporization" from said Plume is causing toxic air pollution down there? Neil said that this vapor can concentrate when confined in buildings on these sites, but since it is just a dirtfield right now, does this vapor just dissipate? Or is it hazardous?
If it is hazardous, would it help if we kept it wet, like you to do keep down dust? Would that at least keep it away from surrounding buildings and the population? Am hoping this is not a problem, or course.
I am also wondering about our rusting water system. Even though one article said that there are no wells there, one would think that this TCE might get into a rusty pipe and from there into the water going into homes. That is scary.
A couple of years ago I remember receiving a brochure that was an Ogden City Water Quality Report, and this said that everything was fine. Now I'm wondering.
Arcritic, do you know how HAFB is doing with this problem? Quick and easy, or long and drawn out? Are there any reports of illness clusters in that area because of this?
Adams Avenue was once named "Spring Street." Any guesses as to why? Yep, underground springs in the area....aquafiers, the whole shebang.
Add the industrials that were present and maybe, just maybe, we have a plume. I dson't know where Godfrey gets the audacity to jspin it the way he does, but it's obvious the guy's scrambling and spending many long hours awake at night, trying to figure out how he'll wriggle out of this multi-million dollar pho-paw.
And the City Council members who rubber stamped it, without doing their research, just accepting the Mayor's words....gotta give them some credit, too, eh!?!
Toxicity spewing forth, small enough to penetrate cement pads, then attaching thmeselves to the AC units and blowing about the new Wreck Center or lounging in the tide pool and climbing wall, blowing freely through the air in the wind tunnel....what a regional draw!
I can't wait for the gondola.
And where are all these supporters? Strangely silent, cutting and running. In former President Bush's words, "Tried to tell ya, but ya wouldn't listen." And now, we have to anti up. I think you supporting folks need to be first in line with your checkbooks. After all, it's you who have been behind this Mayor, Council and insanity, not us.
Is your money really where your mouths were, Bernie, Utmo, etc.? Let's see how loyal you guys really are.
Get me a shovel and show me where and what to do!
I'm right behind Utmorman.
Start digging for the TCE UTmorMAN. We need to get to the bottom of all this.
Finally, some of the Godfreyites surface. With shovels in hand. It's a pity they aren't more concerned, for with everything that the Gov't has on its plate, and the time that Gov't takes to execute its affairs in the best of times, this Wreck Center clock, I'm afraid, is going to run out.
If that happens, what about the $30 million loan? Any idea who gets to apy it off? BAM! You got it, Utmo and friends....YOU DO! Along with all of us, and the dirt lot remains a dirt lot, seething contamination into our pure Rocky Mountain air.
Yeah guys, grab your shovel. It's a real friggin' joke!
Woodward, you really made me laugh with that one, and we'll probably joke about this here for quite a while, which is fine.
But on another level, this is really serious. Not just the fact of the contamination itself, but the fact that we only found out about it recently, and the dirt pile has been there for how long now?
Does anybody at City Hall realize what a close one this was?
Does anybody there understand that, if not for a request for testing from a financial lender, the city might have built the rec center on a toxic site, possibly causing terminal diseases and deaths in people?
Does anybody realize that the Children's Treehouse Museum is Already Under Construction? Was that site ever tested? Did it occur to anyone that you might have approved putting people's children right on top of petroleum and TCE toxins?
We got lucky, and that's what makes me angry. Because I don't think Ogdenites should have to rely on luck. I think we should be able to rely on our elected officials to make wise decisions and leave no possibility unexplored when it comes to our health and safety.
That didn't happen.
We owe the fact that we now know about this contamination not to the diligence of City Hall, but to the diligence of a private financial lender! This is, in my opinion, gross negligence on the part of City Hall, especially since it was no secret that businesses which could have been sources of pollution were once located on that site.
I think we deserve at the very least an apology, but we didn't get one. Instead, we got the latest clever plan on how to make somebody else pay for this.
I hope everybody realizes now just how important those council jobs are. I hope members no longer cave because they're under a deadline, they want to get out of there and go home, they're under peer pressure---whatever things contribute to people in meetings rubber stamping and shooting things through--I hope that stops now.
Worst case scenario---this could have killed somebody. It could have made people sick. Possibly, it already has. Then again, maybe not, and maybe everything will be fine. But to my way of thinking, our health and well-being and lives are not something you dismiss because you're working under a tax increment deadline or you're bored in a meeting or because you have trusted that all things have been taken care of and therefore don't bother to ask, or because you don't want to deal with testing and are hoping nobody brings it up, or because you just didn't think.
That just won't do.
Now that other agencies are involved, we can probably rest assured that this will get cleaned up somehow and that nobody's kids will get sick from it, but the fact remains that, for whatever reason, City Hall put us at risk.
Assuming that the new tests reveal serious problems, I think it's the rubber-stamp city council that will have put us at risk.
Megalomaiacs like Safsten, Stephenson, Burdett, Filiaga & Jorgenson shoved the whole deal down our throats, when they ought to have been looking after their constituents, the citizens of Ogden.
Five members of the city council should be ashamed of themselves for this.
It's definitely time to clean house.
I can't wait until November.
It's time to vote the bums OUT!
From my understanding if this stuff vaporizes into the open air there is not a problem. When it vaporizes and gets contained in a building then the consentrations can get to the point of being dangerous (like when the mall was there, though that was a pretty big place and the consentrations may not have ever gotten to dangerous levels.
The Air Force tests the ground water in the area around identified plumes and are mitigating a number of areas. In Roy they have put wells in to pump contaminated water out and treat it so that the chemicals don't continue beyond the current limits. They also test the air in homes and if there is any detection (not just dangerous levels) they will install venting systems which basically suck the air out from under the home and vent it to the outside so that it doesn't seep into the home.
AR, regardless of the concentration level, would you really let your child hit the surf pool or the wind tunnel, knowing that the contamination is there, at some level? Probably not. Mine wouldn't be allowed on the site. Like earlier said....what a regional draw. And you can get more of the same sitting in one of Larry Miller's theater seats while you enjoy the movie and breath the air.
Keisha, I heard Filliaga report that during the "Budget Session" they worked past 10:00 p.m. and that often times he have to be awakened to cast his vote. I hope the Wreck Center sessions were held around 3:00 in the afternoon, or before lunch.
How much was just swept under the carpet in these sessions, in order to "beat the clock?" And, as Dian says, there are literally lives at stake, or at least the quality of health.
And, if Godfrey has problems with the gondola route, he could always divert it over the 21st Street landfill, even take it through that horrid building where those huge garbage scooper machines work, just for a little scenic moment.
Quite a deal we have going....and this madness has its supporters. If they would spend the time and take the urgency with this as they did with the ferret, we....aw, forget it.
Good info, arcritic, thanks.
I would imagine HAFB's problem is much worse than ours, but it still sounds like a tedious process.
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