We've discussed the possible arrival in Emerald City of a Wal-mart Supercenter so many times over the past few years that today's Standard-Examiner story seems almost anticlimactic. But here's the announcement that many of us have been dreading, under the headline, "Ogden snags its very own Wal-Mart." Walmart's coming to town, just as Boss Godfrey predicted back in January of 2005. Here's the lead setup, straight from this morning's Ace Reporter Schwebke morning piece:
OGDEN — Developer Gadi Leshem will present site plans to the city’s planning commission next week for a proposed 176,000-square-foot Wal-Mart Supercenter at the northwest corner of 20th Street and Wall Avenue.As our Ogden city center proceeds with its urban revival, we suppose we can forget the images of Gucci, Cartier and Prada. A year from now instead, Emerald City will have the Wal-mart brand endelibly stamped all over it.
Plans call for the store to occupy about 17 acres, said Greg Montgomery, the city’s planning manager. The property, which is owned by Leshem, is already zoned for retail.
Several buildings on the property will have to be demolished before construction on the store can begin, possibly later this year, Mayor Matthew Godfrey said in a phone interview Thursday from Las Vegas, where he was attending the Snowsports Industries of America annual trade show.
The store would generate $700,000 to $1 million a year in property and sales tax revenue for the city, as well help rejuvenate downtown, he said.
Anticipating the lumpencitizens' possible uneasiness about the addition of Wal-mart tackiness to our snazzy new downtown, Ace reporter Schwebke offers soothing words of reassurance:
Leshem could not be reached for comment Thursday. However, his spokesman, Alex Auerbach, said Leshem is pleased by how negotiations are proceeding with Wal-Mart.As to the issue of whether this new downtown big box store will help increase trade for other local businesses and otherwise be good for Emerald City, let's just say that remains a matter of some debate.
The city won’t provide Leshem or Wal-Mart any financial incentives for construction of the supercenter, Godfrey said.
The city’s Redevelopment Agency has obtained and transferred purchase options for at least 38 parcels within the second phase of the Ogden River Project to Leshem for the construction of Renaissance Village, a proposed 60- to 80-acre mixed-use development.
The Wal-Mart site is outside the boundaries of the river project and is not one of the 38 parcels.
The Wal-Mart store, which would have architecture that would complement downtown historic buildings, would help increase trade for other local businesses, Auerbach said.
Wal-Mart is also committed to participating in an initiative to clean up a two-mile section of the Ogden River downtown as part of a project being spearheaded by Leshem, he said.
So what say our gentle readers about all this?
20 comments:
Well we knew it was coming, so the WOW (Wal-Mart On Wall) is final exposed. I hope the gondola can deliver workers to this fine Chinese establishment.
Will all the small businesses that supported the administration in the election be pleased when the low prices at WOW drive them out of business? Will the restauramts on 25th be able to compete with Iggy's and other chain eateries? I hope so, since my friends and family enjoy the uniqueness of Ogden. I encourage readers to attend any planning meetings if you are opposed to big box retailers! It isn't too late to be heard. Downtown does need a grocery store, but a Kent's or a Harmons would have more appeal to the hometown locals, not just those who recently moved here to make a profit on our uniqueness.
Godfrey only takes campaign contributions from the locals with threats, then turns his back on them bringing in the big boys, and out of area developers. Whats wrong with haveing local developers do what Lesham, and Myler are doing?
All the time spent making give away sweet deals for Matts' friend we have another water issue again in the same area as last week. Godfrey is responsible for the problems, since he has chosen to neglect the basic services that the City should be providing, and does not. He is a a little immature brat with visions that are un realistic.
People need to flood the Mayors office with complaints.
Adios to the local retailers, Stop & Shop, Wangsgards, Harmons.
When Walmart was proposed three years ago, much of the opposition was due to the $2M subsidy it would have received from the city, and to the likely use of eminent domain to acquire portions of the property.
Now it appears that eminent domain will not be necessary, and they're promising there will be no subsidies. In other words, this is supposed to be a purely private venture, with a blessing from the city administration but no tangible assistance.
Knowing how this administration operates, I'm of course skepical and will be watching closely to see if there aren't some subsidies after all.
I'm not pleased that Godfrey and Leshem have chosen Walmart as Ogden's downtown anchor store. In fact, I think it's about the worst possible choice. I would have preferred something on a smaller scale, with more local ownership if possible.
On the other hand, it isn't clear to me that Walmart will be bad for the downtown area and its existing businesses. Let's face it, there's very little retail downtown at present, so we don't have a lot to lose. By bringing more people downtown, it's entirely possible that Walmart will actually help the other businesses there, especially the restaurants and movie theaters. Time will tell.
The biggest unanswered question for me concerns design. The article says that the architecture will complement downtown, but there are no details. I'm guessing that this will be a sprawling, one-story building surrounded by an enormous parking lot. That in itself would be bad for downtown no matter how you look at it, because it discourages pedestrians--and downtown can't function without pedestrians. If Leshem and the administration have any sense, they will insist that this be a two-story building with a smaller footprint, built out to the sidewalk on Wall, with multiple entrances so pedestrians can come in from any direction.
Rather than simply opposing the project, I'd suggest that we insist on these sorts of design features.
On Wal-Mart:
1. It's going in on private land already assembled, already zoned commercial, and not in an RDA zone. Seems to me virtually unstoppable in that case. I don't think it's wise, but it's Mr. Lesham's land, it's zoned commercial, and it's not under RDA review. Not sure the Council could [or should] be able to stop a project like this merely because they think it unwise unless city money is wanted to finance part of it. There may be substantive public policy reasons for the Council to try to intervene if it chooses to... traffic, safety, etc. But thinking the project unwise is not enough given it's all on private land already zoned commercial and out of RDA oversight.
2. The eminent domain ban the legislature put in that stopped development of the first Wal-Mart planned for downtown has had at least one good effect. The new site is two blocks further from Historic 25th Street than the earlier proposed site.
It will generate $700,000.-$1,000,000.in tax revenue for the City. I wonder if Matt has plans to piss that revenue away on other giveaways to his crony’s.
In the mean time our water system is rotting under our aggogant noses.
I would bet that the City did most if not all of the leg work to acquire the properties for Lesham to capitalize on, it is in the area that Godfrey was working UTA over for their property that they have down there.
My other concern is how will it work with the river parkway right next door? I am pretty sure that there will be plenty of smiley bags and other trash generated along the river by the Chinese based Wal-Mart that Lesham the criminal is so bent on cleaning up and restoring.
Interesting how this Walmart in no way fits lying little matty's stated vision and objectives for Ogden. Nothing high adventure, won't bring anyone in from outside of town,(Ogden is surrounded by Walmarts)may draw some Ogdenites downtown instead of shopping at their closer neighborhood groceries but not too sexy, unique, or excuse me, bling.
What it might just tell us is the type of developement gadi really has planned for the river. Heavily government subsidised low cost housing, future Walmart shoppers. lying little matty can't get himself away from his fantasy of being a first rate slumlord.
Bill:
Be thankful for small favors. Mr. Godfrey and his Corps de Flacks have not yet referred to it as "Ogden's High Adventure Super Wal-Mart."
Not yet....
Dan-
I like your comments regarding design. A Wally will be built, that has long been evident. With that being the case, I would hope everybody's efforts go towards ensuring that a more compatible Wally will be built (rather than just opposing it). Ogden cannot be a pushover about this or Wally will walk right over us. I hope that everybody involved in the approval and development process, from the Mayor, Gadi, the Council, planning council and staff, etc. all work to see this through. Wally's is crap store and I don't shop there, but if I have to drive by this every day I want it to be something I can live with.
Godfrey is a proven pushover, look at the people he admires and chums around with. He is an idiot, and the so-called buddies will continue to manipulate him and take our tax dollars to other parts of the counry.
Godfrey is a proven pushover, look at the people he admires and chums around with. He is an idiot, and the so-called buddies will continue to manipulate him and take our tax dollars to other parts of the counry.
I'm curious as to how much profit Gadi made off of selling the property to Wal-Mart, since the city was offered more money and then turned it down by another interested buyer. The property has been vacant since the first rumor of Wal-Mart coming to town. I hope in future deals the city council is more active in securing the best offer for city involved property.
I agree. Let Mall Wart (Your Source for Cheap Plastic Crap) come downtown. I can see the benefit.
However, as citizens we have two responsibilities: to see that the design is compatible with the natural beauty of Ogden (yes, even Wall!) and to make sure that the city administration doesn't "give away the store" (literally, in this case) with tax increments and baubles, bangles and beads. If we do, then we fail to reap any potential benefit from having this hideous thing downtown.
(Just so you don't think me too hypocritical, yes, I shop at the hideous Mall Wart, whenever I need cheap plastic crap, which is several times a year.)
Dan, Curmudgeon and Bill - All of your points were well stated and right on point.
As to Godfree's statements about no city subsidies, I say we should all be very wary of that. The little criminal has lied to the citizens too many times for us to start believing him now.
Other than that, I am very excited about the prospects of being able to jump on the FrontRunner in down town SLC and riding up to Ogden so I can do my shopping at WallMart. I was hoping something like this would happen so I wouldn't have to shop at this disgusting new open air mall the Church is building in down town SLC - and get this, Without a WallMart!, if you can imagine that.
With the newest WallMart in all of Utah, and the ice tower, Ogden cannot help but become the new high tech Rec, and high class merchandise center of the Intermountain west. Such a combination will surely be a magnet to draw people from all surrounding states. Where else are you gonna find a day glow miniature golf layout and a WallMart all within easy walking distance of each other?
Mono, funny you should mention cheap plastic crap. There is a move affoot, certain very large metropolitin areas are banning cheap plastic grocery bags. Might be nice if they would extend that to other cheap plastic disposable things. This could have a significant impact on our economy. We could start manufacturing here at home the real long lasting and reusable items that cheap plastic replaced. Who says you can't reinvent the wheel.
From the "Where does it really go?" dept:
I thought (correct me if I'm wrong) property taxes around here are paid to the Weber County Assessor's office - and the money is distributed as follows:
Ogden City - 21.9%
OC School Dist - 38.5%
Weber Cnty & State - 39.6%
And aren't sales taxes slated for:
1. Going straight to the state, then distributed
2. For Dec 2007, the only list for sales tax Ogden showed up on was (drum roll please) Transient Room, and that only $10,064.
Isn't the whole idea to get the homeless shelters out of town? Would the Matty Master want gadi's WOW subsidizing the homeless shelter with even more money?
Hmmmm ...
TLJ
A downtown WalMart is probably the only way to get some active(buyer) traffic downtown. I've seen the documentaries and have serious reservations over WalMart's overall business plan and it's effect on small communities and businesses. Unfortunately this is the period in American consumerism that we have arrived. It has been a steady and progressive regression to low prices and one stop shopping that could easily be foreseen to undermine the many small businesses that made up downtowns like ours. In Ogden's case, the downtown had already been gutted by the retreat of the Union Pacific Railroad and the bypassing of US89 by I15. At least we are now at a point in time where the outcome is very clear and we know that the future is not in some caricature downtown dotted with sidewalk cafes, galleries, and antique stores and not a single shop selling necessities. We will soon be able to shop for necessities downtown and make a stop at 25th St. for some grub. Seems to me WalMart will round out the downtown experience. The unfortunate result will be that specialty grocers will now turn away for another decade while WalMart steals the show. I'm giving it all a chance. Riverdale WalMart will be closer to me than 20th and Wall but I will do my civic duty and shop in Ogden. Let's put a positive spin on Wally's and push them on the architectural details.
Well there goes this blog's favorite sophist manipulating other's words and meanings in his seemingly never ending quest to be the one and only master of reason and thought! The Curmidgeon post above is typical of the pedantic drivel that streams endlessly from his keyboard! He took another readers comments, put his own meaning on them, completely ignored the real intent of the other writer, then put that person down for getting it wrong! The guy must have an ego bigger than all of Weber County and a desperate need to prove every one wrong whether they are or not.
I have been reading this blog for almost a year now and learned it is best to ignore this person's constant stream of self congratulations. When you see the bi-line Curmudgeon it is best to skip to the next comment.
Will:
You wrote: When you see the bi-line Curmudgeon it is best to skip to the next comment.
Which, I notice, you didn't do....{grin}.
I agree with Will S. on his evaluation of Curmudgeon and his constant stream of corrections to every one's thinking.
Even in his answer to Will's accusations he demonstrates his intellectual dishonesty by avoiding the specifics and diverting attention with another example of his sophistry.
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