Sunday, November 15, 2009

Standard-Examiner: How Much Should Your Mayor Make?

A tacit admission that another pizza delivery boy and ne'er do well is a bad idea for Ogden?

By Monotreme

The Standard-Examiner carries this interesting story this morning on the front page of the hard-copy edition:
How much should your mayor make?
In it, Mr. Schwebke interviews a cadre of local business "leaders" (all Friends of Matt, curiously), who think that the salary for Ogden Mayor should be increased "to attract more qualified candidates".

Is this a tacit admission that another pizza delivery boy and ne'er do well is a bad idea for Ogden?

Best Quote of the Month Award to Councilwoman Dorrene Jeske:
I'm sure he isn't paid as much as he should be," she said. "This form of government costs more than it's worth because of all the high-paid directors we have.
Kinda puts him over a barrel, doesn't it? I think that what she's really saying, in a very polite way, is that if he quit paying other people to do his job, then he'd be able to make more.

44 comments:

Curmudgeon said...

Mono:

Thanks for the pointer! WSU won, Wisconsin won, Notre Dame lost, and Ogden business leaders evidently think not only that Ogden can, but that Ogden must, do better than Hizzonah in the Mayor's chair.

It's been a very good day.

Curmudgeon said...

Couple of points:

1. If the pay for Mayor of Ogden is significantly lower than the pay for mayors of comparably-sized Utah cities, then raising that pay may be a good idea. [But the comparison should be with comparable-sized cities. Adding SL into the comparison as the SE has done in its survey makes little sense.]

2. If pay for the job is increased, and Hizzonah, Mayor Godfrey, runs for re-election again and wins, he should get the increased level of pay. Compensation should be attached to the job, and not varied according to the particular person holding it. The Mayor's pay should be the Mayor's pay, regardless of who the voters select as Mayor. Yes, even Mayor Godfrey if the voters put him in office yet again.

3. From the story: "OGDEN -- A group of local business leaders is floating a proposal to raise the mayor's salary to attract high-caliber candidates for the 2011 election.... The proposal is being pitched by Kym Buttschardt, owner of Roosters Brewing Company; Scott Parkinson, senior vice president with the Bank of Utah; Ryan Christiansen, senior vice president with Zions Bank; and Mike Dowse, general manager of Amer Sports Winter & Outdoor Americas."

As Mono implies, there is an interesting conclusion that can reasonably be drawn from this. It is that the committee has looked at the "talent" [politely so called] currently occupying the Mayor's chair and concluded that Ogden has got to do better. And so the committee proposes to bid up in hopes of Ogden doing better next time.

It does seem that portions of Ogden's business community, which used to loudly tub-thump for Hizzonah's expensive obsessions [like the $35 million dollar flatland gondola tourist ride to WSU], have gone noticeably quieter of late, as painfully obvious failure has piled on painfully obvious failure [think of the moribund River Project, the deteriorating Leshamville properties, etc.]. The head of the Ogden-Weber Chamber of Commerce for example --- who could reliably be found a few years ago in the heady early days of Lift Ogden at civic meetings and on street corners singing hymns from The Book of Matt --- seems to have developed a case of political laryngitis of late.

But since I live in constant terror of being thought merely a naysayer, let me congratulate the business leaders committee for I agree with it that Ogden badly needs a competent administrator in the Mayor's chair. It's taken the committee members a while longer than many here at WCF to reach that conclusion, but I'm glad they finally got there.

Welcome aboard, guys. Welcome aboard.

GORDO said...

THESE JERKS THAT LIVE IN UINTA AND LAYTON ARE TRYING TO RAISE THE PAY SO THEY CAN KEEP MATT IN THERE. HE ALWAYS GRIPES ABOUT LEAVING TO MAKE MORE MONEY IN THE REAL WORLD. HE IS LYING ABOUT REFUSING A PAY RAISE. GOLLY, YOU DUMMIES!

Pat Dean said...

Good Point Monotreme,
If my memory serves me right, the reasoning behind the strong Mayoral form of government was that the Mayor would function or in fact be our City Manager.... Question, what would happen to the 34 people in Ogden City that today make more money than the Mayor... Just for what we pay Mr. Patterson, we could hire two very qualified individuals to assist the Mayor. Not to say that they don't earn their salaries but really, we live in a town of 78,000 If you took all the Employees that work for Ogden City and divide them into the number of citizens, the numbers will shock you..............
78,000 residents divided by 854 Employees = 1 employee to every 91.33 residents. Simply put about every 22.8 home in Ogden we have 1 employee. Do these statistics seem to concern you?
Well here are some statistics from other local cities:
Roy 37,112 Residents divided by 153 employees = 242.5 residents to every 1 Employee
Layton 68,017 Residents divided by 349 employees = 194.8 residents to every 1 employee.
This seems to be the norm throughout the State. Ogden just seems to have quite a high number of employees to residents, equal to twice the state average.... Just a little bit of information for you all to ponder.....!

wildcat said...

If a blue ribbon commission is to be put together I think it's task should be broader than simply considering whether to raise the pay for the mayor. I'm not convinced that THE problem with Ogden city government is that we have not been able to attrack quality candidates to run for mayor due to the low pay level - which, by the way, is currently higher than my salary and my wife's. There are other issues to consider. Most specifically the division of powers between mayor and council and even the question of whether or not council members should be given a pay raise. So, I'm not opposed to forming this blue ribbon commission, but if it is to form, I would like to see its charge be broader.

RudiZink said...

Pat:

At risk of coming off as a nitpicker, I'll alert you to a matter of definitional imprecision which for your blogmeister has become a pet peeve. The use of the phrase "strong mayor" in reference to Ogden City's "Mayor-Council" form of government is a misnomer. Here's a good essay on the topic of historical Utah forms of government, from which I've clipped this instructive languge:

The traditional form of municipal government has persisted since territorial times and it was not until 1959 that the Legislature provided for a substantial departure from it. It did so by an act entitled Strong Mayor Form of Government which enabled the larger cities to adopt, at their option, a strong Mayor form of government. That legislation was significantly innovative since it not only vested municipal government in a mayor and a board of commissioners, it also expressly separated the executive and legislative powers by vesting the former in the Mayor, as chief executive officer and by vesting the latter in the board of commissioners.

In 1975 the Legislature repealed the Strong Mayor Form of Government Act and enacted substantially similar provisions in what is now known as the Optional Forms of Municipal Government Act. The Act provided for optional forms of government known as council- mayor and council- manager forms and made them available to all municipalities, regardless of their classification. A municipality adopting the council- mayor form vests the executive and legislative powers in the Mayor and the municipal council. The Act designated the municipal council as the legislative body and it expressly defined its powers and duties as being passing ordinances, appropriating funds, reviewing municipal administration, and performing all duties that may be required by law. It further expressly placed limitations upon the authority of the council members as follows: “No member of the council shall direct or request, except in writing, the appointment of any person to, or his removal from office or to interfere in any way with the performance by the officers of their duties. The council shall not give orders to any subordinate of the Mayor or manager either publicly or privately, but may make suggestions and ecommendations. Nothing in this section shall prevent the council from appointing committees of its own members for citizens to conduct investigations into the conduct of any officer, department, or agency of the municipal government, or any matter relating to the welfare of the municipality, and delegating two these committees such powers of inquiry as the council making necessary.” Utah code annotated 10-3-1217.


The use of the "strong mayor" terminology is careless at best, I believe, and in a worst case scenario implies "extraordinary" power which the mayor really doesn't have in the "mayor council" form of government; so I thus constantly urge my political friends to abandon the use of that antiquated and misleading terminology.

Here's my most recent rant on the subject; and we believe the majority of the city council got it exactly right in this September 26, 2009 SE Guest Commentary.

Great to see you actively posting on WCF, btw, Pat!

monotreme said...

I think the Mayor of Ogden (a theoretical mayor, not the current one) should make more.

Rudi, if people insist on using the "strong mayor" formulation, then I would say we should replace it with the phrase "strong mayor - strong council". I was happy to see Ms. Van Hooser use that phrase in the first council candidates' forum. It has a nice ring to it.

Jim Hutchins said...

I also like to read Mr. Dean's commentaries on this forum. Thanks for posting. We need more people like you in Ogden City government.

Dan S. said...

I say go ahead and give the mayor a raise. But then, whenever he spends money that the council hasn't allocated, take it out of his salary.

Pat Dean said...

Thank you Rudi for the information provided. You can bet your bottom dollar that I won't make that mistake again.....

What I wanted to emphases was that if you got rid of the Current City Chief Administrative Officer and those duties were performed by the fulltime Mayor, then I could see giving the Mayor a raise. But I'm also reminded that there have been attempts to give the Mayor a raise in the past and Mr. Godfrey refused to take it... Perhaps he understands his limitations and knows that if he gets a raise we will expect more from him?

In this economy of cuts and layoffs is it right and or just to seek a pay raise for any City, County or even State employee... let alone for a position that would be filled after an election...

In my experience of employee management, there are two kinds of Employees. First, the employee that works hard, goes above and beyond in hopes that he will be noticed and get a raise. Second, the employee that says I'm not going to do any more until I get a raise? Both are good employees but one just seems to rise to the top.... Or perhaps more simply said, is it just a job or is it a career...?

Stephen M. Cook said...

He should make roughly the average salary of the people who live in Ogden.
Attract a candidate? Bull.
What hew does is not rocket science; it is a managerial position.

Curmudgeon said...

SMC:

You wrote of Ogden's Mayor:

"What hew does is not rocket science; it is a managerial position."

True. But then, managing something like a mid-sized city isn't quite like managing a Burger King or a Dollar General Store.

Look, SMC, my guild oath as a professor requires me to grumble and complain at least five times a week about "the administration" or "the damn bureaucracy." But I also know that however much we grouse about 'em, administrators and managers are absolutely necessary, and if you're going to have a well-run university, or a well-run city, they'd better be damn good managers. I wouldn't be as dismissive as you are of the skill at it required to be a good one for something as large and as complex as a mid-sized city. And the consequences of having a poor one in place can be disastrous [think Enron, AIG, Lehman Brothers and the River Project].

And sometimes, since there is a premium in the market on good ones, you have to offer the going rate. That the voters don't always hire the best person for the job doesn't much change that. The going rate can be one element of what convinces good ones to apply for the job by filing as candidates. One element, but not the only one.

Just sayin'....

Anonymous#1 said...

Mayor-Council and Council-Manager forms of government are often interchangeable and non-discrete terms. By and large (since almost every city over 50,000 has a Chief Administrative Officer or City manager to run day-to-day operations) a strong mayor form of government means that the mayor has the power to veto the council.

Ray Vaughn said...

Before we talk about raising the Mayors salary we should consider a few things. Are there performance guidelines and standards to be attained? How do we measure the quality of his/her work? What do we expect to be accomplished? Does the Mayor follow and adhere to all applicable rules,regulations and laws? These questions should be fully addressed before any change in salary is discussed or implemented.

RudiZink said...

"Mayor-Council and Council-Manager forms of government are often interchangeable and non-discrete terms."

That's right, Anon. And it's that sloppy practice that we're trying to stamp out.

A Utah mayoral veto pursuant to the mayor-council form of government is analogous to a presidential veto under federal law. Did you ever notice that we don't refer to the federal form of government as "the Strong President" form of government?

The terminology is highly inaccurate and deceptive. We'd like to drive a stake through its heart.

Stephen M. Cook said...

Running a city is easy; I don't think I requires skills beyond a high school diploma and a penchant to lie often and blatantly..

Utah Universities graduate people with managerial/business skills from MBA programs; we think that most any of these intelligent, well studied, and honest persons could fill the shoes of our Mayor.

I have been watching Wall Street claim, "we cannot attract top shelf talent unless we pay them 25 million a year".
I can't believe my fellow citizens are buying this crap.

These financial wiz-kids are not that smart, talented, or "better than you" to the tune of making 400 times a year more than you make.
A raise to attract better talent. What a joke.

Curmudgeon said...

Ray:

Hard to put in place, nearly impossible in fact, pay/performance standards such as you suggest for an elected official. The list of performance standards you want would be appropriate for a city manager hired by the Council [city manager form of municipal government]. But for an elected mayor, the job review at which his or her performance in office is assessed is called "the next election." And for an elected official, that's as it should be.

Have to confess, though, that seeing the "Mayor/Council" form of government at work in Ogden over the last eight years has given me a new appreciation for that old Progressive-era reform, the city manager form of municipal government.

Ogden Dem said...

Based on the data from Pat Dean, although I think some numbers may be a bit off, I believe Ogden's population is closed to 82,000 - 2005 census it was at 81,600. Regardless, I would wonder why in the heck Ogden needs so many city employees?
Again, based on Pat's data - Layton has a population 13% smaller than Ogden but they have 40% less city employees - hmmmm, curious.

Fireman Joe said...

The fire department has lost positions, the police department always has open slots. Year after year we hear the mayor tell us " there's no money for raises", while his people get hired right in at the top of the pay scale.

Stephen M. Cook said...

People seem to need rulers over them. If you pay more for the privilege of being told what to do, you think you will receive a more powerful overlord, which will allow your pack-animal urge to obedience and obeisance to continue with renewed fervor.

The idea that Ogden could not function almost as well as it does now, with virtually no one at the helm does not even occur.
Pathetic puppets, the lot of you.

A Chaocracy is called for; no one who seeks power should be allowed to wield it.
Select rulers at random from all adults, allow them a short term with which to mess things up; provide them with a well paying - high turn over civil service to advise, when required.

You cant tell us things would be worse off under such a system, we think we would be better off; the kindly lady down the road would have as much of a chance as Joe Dripping Real Estate Testosterone over at New Castle Mortgage.

But the idea of trusting random process to appoint those who administer public office is too frightening to the lot of worshipful humans.

They need a God/King/Bull Ape to lord over them. Weak puppet things.

Superman said...

I am going to use the hop-scotch rule in this response and jump all over the place.
When we changed the form of government we have in Ogden from a weak-mayor or ceremonial form to a strong-mayor or executive form of government the City Manager at the time was Cowells Mallory. When it was evident the community was behind the change and he would be looking for employment elsewhere he became a strong outspoken advocate to eliminate the weak-mayor government because according to him “it didn't work in Ogden.” He spoke quite often about all the council bosses he had to please with at times individual threats from several council members of him losing his job if he didn’t do what they told him to do. Not only was he on the receiving end of endless requests from council members to take care of their pet projects, so was his department heads. If an outspoken council member wanted the snow removed from her street first she called the department head direct. Some council members even became prescriptive as to how a department head should circumvent established city policies to benefit them personally. Ogden’s mayor as a member of the city council was relegated to being a ribbon cutting baby kissing mayor with little real political power. True the powerless mayor could do relatively little damage while holding the office but in the case of Ogden the lack of power created little or no progress.
The citizens of Ogden went to the polls and determined the change to a strong-mayor form of mayor-council government was in their best interest. With the change to a new form of Government a CAO responsible only to the mayor was appointed to supervise department heads, prepare the budget, and coordinate departments. However, this did not deter some members of the council who still thought they could apply pressure on the CAO to get their way. Our first CAO eventually escaped and took a similar job in SLC. It took years and attrition of the council members to finally get things on track.
When changing to the strong-mayor government the salary and the roles and responsibilities of the mayor was clearly defined. There was no community uprising or inference that good people won’t run for mayor unless the salary exceeds six digits. Council member Dorene Jeske asserts "This form of government costs more than it's worth because of all the high-paid directors we have.” Was it not the city council that approved the positions including a council director and also their salaries all of which are more than the mayors? Was it not the city council with the urging of “their” council director to implement a policy that if an inept department head or one who is not a team player is let go by the mayor that the tax payers of Ogden have to pay an inordinate severance package? Who is really at fault here?
Who in their right mind would want to run for mayor in Ogden no matter the salary and subject themselves and their families to the scrutiny, criticism, hate mail, and personal verbal attacks on their spouse and children? Who would want to be mayor in Ogden knowing they will be fed to the wolves because of their stature? Why would a person want to be mayor of Ogden knowing that if members of the City Council don’t like their personality or methodology that the stone throwing will begin.
A prominent Ogden community leader once stated, “Ogden is the only place I know where they eat their young.” Unfortunately there are many who want to be first in line when the feeding frenzy starts. Whatever happened to doing what’s right and what’s in the best interest of Ogden and its citizens? As elected officials we expect as much. Also, obviously many in Ogden don’t own mirrors.

"Truth, Justice and the American Way

Superman said...

Hear hear Stephen M. Cook, hear hear.

"They need a God/King/Bull Ape to lord over them. Weak puppet things."


"Truth, Justice and the American Way

AWM said...

SMC is dead on!..more money won't guarantee a better applicant pool...I subscribe to the 25/75 percent rule...25% of the employees keep the other 75% heading in the right direction. Doesn't matter whether you work for Ogden City, Ford or IBM that's how it always seems to balance out...raise the pay and you'll still have the same percentage mix of qualified and unqualified folks trying to get the job, just more overall will apply.

JEFF said...

When I asked the water department head how much revenue per month he recieved he didn't know, and expenditures. He had only been on the job for 4 months at the time, but I would assume he needed the figures to plan a budget. These department heads seem to be vastly overpaid if they are only puppet figures.

Maybe all of the financial data goes through the mayors office before it is filtered down to the departments.

Danny said...

This is pretty straightforward.

Ogden as a lot more cops and fire people than most cities. We've known that for decades.

And as far as the mayor needing a raise, yes, the "masters of the universe" who are used to running things in Ogden watched the last election, and have concluded that Godfrey is unlikely to win another term.

But they still want him. So the plan is to run one of themselves, who will be a figurehead, and who will hire Godfrey to keep running things.

But even a figurehead needs at least 100 grand a year. I mean, come on.

gordoMONDO said...

HOW STUPID ARE YOU? CHRISTIANSEN LIVES IN UINTA, AND HE HS MONEY INS LAYTON ROOSTERS; THE BANK OF UTAH GUY LIVES IN LAYTON; KYM BUTTSHIT COULDN'T GET A JOB AT ARBYS IF NOT FOR HER FAMILY MONEY AND SHE'S A PILE OF CRAP; MIKE DOWSE IS A MORON WHO CAME HERE BECAUSE THE STATE GAVE HIM $9 MILL. TJEY WANT TO RAISE THE MAYOR'S PAY IN A VEILED ATTEMPT TO KEEP THE DWARF THEY LOVE IN OFFICE: AS THAT DIPSHIT CURMUDGEON KEEPS ON SAYING, TEH STANDARD IS BEING PLAYED LIKE A FIDDLE. DO YOU THINK A GONDOLA LOVER LIAR CRIMINAL CAN GET ANOTER JOG? NO!!!! IT'S A SMOKESCREEN FOR MIDGET GODFREY TO PAY FOR HIS HAIRPLUGS. GOD YOU GUYS ARE MORONS.

ozboy said...

Two of the great fallacies perpetrated by this class of liars and thieves (real estate hustlers, bankers, lawyers, politicians, etc) who have so thoroughly screwed up the economy are:

1. Paying more money to executives gets you better talent and thus superior results.

2. Bringing more businesses into a community lowers peoples taxes.

If No. 1 were true we wouldn't have had the complete melt down of the economy that was devastated by some very highly paid but incompetent executives.

If No. 2 were true then the bigger a city got the lower taxes would be. This is just opposite to what happens in the real world.

GORGOGEIG said...

JEFF CHRISTIANSEN IS A LOW-LEVEL PRIVATE BANKER THAT LIVES IN UINTA. KYM BUTTSHIT SPEN HER WHOLE FAMILY MONEY BUILDING ROOSTERS THAT GETS GEIGERS AND GODGFREY TO TIP $3 ON A $75 TAB. pARKSINSON LIVES IN LAYTON. WHO GIVES A FUCK WHAT THEY THINK MATT GODFREY SHOULD BE PAID. OH, YEAH, LET'S NOT FORGET THAT ASSHOLE DOWSE WHO MOVED INTO TEH GATED 29TH STREET COMPLEX AND WANTED TO SELL IT FOR A A CIRCUS RIDE. WAKE UP IDIOTS! THESE ARE FOOLS AND MORONS. AND SHUT OR HOLE, PETE YOUR WIFE IS A MORON. SHE STUDIED MCDONALDS DRIVE THROUGH TUBTIL SHE SHIT OUT $500k OF HER INTERITANCE. ASSHOLES.

south bench said...

you pay the mayor more, next year you will be paying to department heads more, then you will pay middle level managers more, then perhaps city council will vote them selves a raise. Meanwhile, everyone who works for a living has stagnant wages. Even the teachers, who are still basically having bake sales.

The mayor can live in a modest home, work hard, and barely make ends meet, just like the majority of the people in Ogden. The last thing we need is salary creep on the part of people who are serving the public. Supposedly.

AWM said...

Well, as GORGOGEIG so plainly stated in the vernacular of the peasantry...that was the first thing that went through my mind as I read the article..why do 4-5 business people give a hoot what the mayor of Ogden is getting paid and why do they think a raise will get them a better mayor (via a bigger applicant pool)..There is no guarantee the puplic will vote for the most qualified anyway (if recent history is any indication).

Curmudgeon said...

Superman:

The alternative to the Mayor/Council form of city government is not a weak mayor/ council form, but the City Manager form. The council hires a professional city manager to run the place, on contract.

There is no perfect form of government, at any level. All have advantages and disadvantages. On balance, the city manager form seems to have the edge from my POV... not an overwhelming edge, but a recognizable one never the less.

As for name calling, hate mail, etc... really doesn't matter who the CEO of Ogden is or how he or she is selected or what kind of job they do: they're going to be denounced by somebody, have their intelligence and integrity questioned by somebody, etc. Comes with the territory.

Curmudgeon said...

Oz:

This debate over compensation for public service has been going on since the first days of the Continental Congress. The arguments for significant pay are two: (a) that if the job does not pay reasonably well, there is a danger that elected mayors will make up the difference between what they're getting and what they think they should be getting by doing favors for the well-heeled and being compensated by them, one way or another. And (b) if the job pays poorly, those who are not independently wealthy will not be able to afford to serve, and so the post will of necessity be open only to the wealthy. Not a good situation, the founders thought, for a republic.

Seems to me, either a mayor or a city manager overseeing a "business" and budget the size of Ogden's ought to be paid reasonably well if we hope to have competent mangers apply for the post [either by running for it or applying for appointment as city manager]. What I'm not quite sure about is why we're paying the Mayor and a CAO to do what, seems to me, is essentially the same job: be the acting day to day managing executive of Ogden City. Seems to me one person ought to be doing that job, not two. And if one was doing it, it'd be worth paying him more than an Ogden mayor now gets --- and we'd still be saving a bundle by paying only one CEO, not two.

disgusted said...

i want to know who anointed these individuals to be able to call for a blue ribbon panel (what ever a blue ribbon panel is) to be formed to recommend a pay raise for our city mayor.

does this mean that any group of four individuals (whether they live in ogden or not) can call upon the city for the formation of a blue ribbon panel and get the se to report on it in the paper. if thats so i am looking for three other individuals to join with me to recommend the formation of a blue ribbon panel to perform an audit on the mayors business development department and the ogden rda. please respond to me here on the blog.

what makes these individuals (that seem to think quite highly of themselves) feel that they should be raising this issue for the interest of the rest of us here in ogden (that obviuosly don’t seem to understand) particularly in the current economy. do their opinions reflect the views of the rest of the residents of ogden or do we accept their perception that more money will attract more talent as being valid. i certainly don’t and i would task them to prove the correlation.

disgusted said...

Superman

i wont question cowell mallorys interpretation of the issues back then or question his qualifications for the job that he held. i will point out that the problems back then as presented by you represent the same problems we have today with our current form of govenment. the government under either form will only works when you have a system where checks and balances are in place and where there is an open dialog with compromise coming from both sides of the city government. he may not of had that back then from the city council and we don’t have it today coming from the mayor.

what you highlight is the need for elected officials from both sides (mayor and city council members) that understand that they can only be effective for the residents if they are willing to work together in an open dialog and are willing to compromising on issues.

R. Grant said...

Who actually thinks that the pay for public service should go up faster than that of the populace that the office serves?

80 k is plenty for a public servant.

Curmudgeon said...

R. Grant:

In re: "80 k is plenty for a public servant."

Depends on the job, the responsibilities, and the level of expertise necessary to do it well.

guys with badges said...

And to think that the State legislature get a whooping 13 grand a year and that includes salary and benefits. If you add all the perks that the Mayor gets, it would be more like 120 grand a year. so where is the problem. I think that the legislature needs a raise before the mayor but with Jon, Jon, Greiner triple dipping it looks like he should be able to give the mayor some of the trough that he is eating out of.
Lets get real folks when we elect a person for how much they can be payed then we get a pay check collected like Jon, Jon, if we elect a person for the integrity that they have and serve the public it seems to take care of itself with out a blue ribbon panel. since it is a blue ribbon panel then i guess that only democrats can be on it because they are the blue people and the republicans are the red people. ha ha ha.

so I guess that only Ogden city residents should be on this panel.

R. Grant said...

Being a good Kindergarten teacher, year in and year out is more responsibility, harder, and takes more skill, and is far more important to Ogden, than being some glorified retail manager/mayor. Pay the teachers 80 k, and get the mayors friends hands hand out of my pocket.

Superman said...

Disgusted:

You are right on. Having open dialogue, checks and balance, working together, compromise, and singing cum-bay-ah are all supposed to produce conclusions or end results that benefit the community. However it is when and only when our elected officials and also many who post on this forum quit acting like high school kids trying to win the popularity contest, stop holding grudges, stop focusing on each other’s personalities or methodologies, quit worrying about whom is right, and quit drawing attention to each others flaws will we see the desired results. So what if someone doesn’t like what the mayor said. So what if a member of the council disagrees with the administration? So what if the Mayor doesn’t like what is posted on this forum? What utter nonsense. Look in the mirror Ogdenites, are you part of the problem or part of the solution. It is a good thing I am not an elected official for my detractors would have a heydey.

“Truth, Justice and the American Way”

pay to play said...

the highest paid public servants are football coaches.

Curmudgeon said...

Pay to Play:

Sad but true in many states. Sad but true.

Dorrene Jeske said...

Ray Vaughn,
You are exactly right that we should consider the Mayor’s performance, and etc. Your questions are extremely important and pertinent to Mayor Godfrey. These questions should be asked by each voter before he/she votes for him. I don’t think that he would have been re-elected in 2007, if people had asked those questions before voting then.
Let’s consider his belligerent attitude towards the subject of accountability. When I indicated that it was the administration’s responsibility to provide the council with pertinent and requested information when asked to commit millions of taxpayer dollars to projects and economic developments, I was told by Mayor Godfrey that the council was NOT his boss – no one was his boss, and he did NOT have to do anything that we wanted or suggested. (He was very angry with me for even suggesting that it was the administration’s responsibility to provide us with information necessary to make intelligent decisions and I also told him and one of his directors that they were derelict in their duties and demonstrated a lack of respect for the council by ignoring our requests during my second council meeting after taking office.) I contend that he DOES have a boss and it is the people who elect him.
The Oath that he takes should serve as the performance guidelines and standards by which we, the voters determine his performance. Does he faithfully keep that oath? We can measure the quality of his work and whether he accomplishes what we expect him to by the success of his projects. Whether the Mayor follows and adhere to all applicable rules, regulations and laws can be determined by the number of lawsuits filed against the Mayor and Ogden City for which, we, the taxpayers pay. When I asked how the number of lawsuits against the city and mayor filed since Godfrey took office compared to before he took office, I was told that they had increased significantly.
We have a powerful hold on the Mayor if we would only recognize it and use it at the voting
booth. If these questions suggested by Ray Vaughan, were asked and honestly answered after
researching and studying the issues, could and would serve as a very effective tool in assuring
that we have a mayor who is responsive to his constituents and works for the best interest of
Ogden.

Stephen M. Cook said...

Doreen: 100%.

what will it cost us said...

Kind of late for a comment, but executives of cities should file a tax return and it should be public information. The amount paid by the city, plus campaign donations used for private use, plus investments by his wife if all property was divested in the politician name and her employment should all be considered and public information.

You never hear about the mayors rental properties that he bought on a credit card or his being labeled a slum lord by fellow citizens. I would like to know what total income he has coming in, lets get a blue ribbon panel and look at his finances. How much monies does he have in his campaign fund left over if he decides not to run?

Post a Comment

© 2005 - 2014 Weber County Forum™ -- All Rights Reserved