Where, oh where will it ever end?
By: Time To Finish SomethingSeems to me that the City had a fairly large chunk of money at the end of this past fiscal year (one time money).
They knew revenues would be down, and that costs were going up. They knew that the Police Department was over budget on their fuel charges.
We learned last night that Godfrey has cut the fire department budget by $200,000, and experienced Ogden firefighters are now pursuing job opportunities elsewhere:
Godfrey has also asked the fire department to cut the budget by $200,000.Where did that money go? Commitments for a popsicle, and other one time projects? A prudent manager would have saved for the rainy day that the City Leadership knew was coming.
In the last several weeks 3 guys have quit, taking about 22 years of experience with them. There are paramedics on the hiring list of other departments, could be 40 more years of combined experience leaving quickly.
There are firefighters who have been here for 6 years and are still making the same wage. What used to be a 5% step increase is gone with the new "pay for performance" system. Don't let them fool you-we didn't choose it-we were told we chose it.
Does the administration care-no. Are they happy-yes, better to have a bottom pay range guy than top pay range guy.
Should the citizens care? If your child has stopped breathing or your house is on fire which one do you hope pulls up to the door, the truck with 2 guys with 30 years experience or the truck with 2 guys with 3?
The River Project sits in limbo, the Junction is un-finished, along with many other projects.
The city is run by an idiot on the ninth floor, and the Standard-Examiner reports this morning that this same idiot now wants a $13 million velodrome:
"Next up, a velodrome? Godfrey thinks $13 million, world-class facility could be built in downtown Ogden"
Where, oh where will it ever end?
45 comments:
Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part, but did anyone else detect a whiff of skeptical sarcasm in the SE's headline on this story? "Next Up, a Velodrome?"
Seems to me the name under which the post appears above... "Finish Something"... has got it exactly right. Staring down the abyss of a Republican recession of as yet unknown duration and depth, yet another massive jump in federal deficits [we're bailing out now Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac with taxpayer funds, thanks to Republican efforts to eliminate federal regulation of much of the lending industry], and with many many Godfrey touted projects still unproven as long-term economic generators [the Junction, the ice tower, Ogden Climbing Parks, the wind tunnel ride, the river project, and so on], this is not the time to make yet another multi-million dollar wager on yet another niche sport venue.
I got the same impression on the headline too, Curm: "Next up, a velodrome? Godfrey thinks $13 million, world-class facility could be built in downtown Ogden"
It has a hint of mockery about it, I think.
Seriously, can we not use $13M on water, sewers, sidewalks and other much needed improvenments. If the mayor is diverting funds from the current increased water bills then all of the cities departments need to be indepentently audited. Maybe an audit is justified with the $200K cut in fire protection. Can the City Council require an audit the sooner the better.
Jeff:
Well, the full $13 million is, according to the SE story, not going to be public money. So it isn't really available for use on sewer projects, police and fire funding, etc. The Mayor wants the Council to pony up at this point only $100K as earnest money... necessary he says to prove Ogden's commitment to the project so private donors will pony up the rest.
It's the same pitch he made for the ice tower. Godfrey insists the city will not have to pay for construction. Private donors will.
To which we can all chant together "where have we heard that before"? The ice tower was going to need $200 K which it got from RAMP funds. Then suddenly the public buy- in doubled, and it needed another $200K from the city, with assurances that that would lock in private donations to build the tower. [The Council ponied up half that, as I recall, with conditions.]
The city, the article says, would own the velodrome, but private entities would operate it, particularly expert groups in the various sports it would offer. Again, same model as the ice tower.
But we don't know yet if the ice tower model will work, if in fact Ogden will not be stuck with the operating costs, or a significant portion of them, if it is built. The model has not yet been proven successful. If it is not successful, even presuming private money is found to build it, Ogden will be left with a choice: a dark and unused tower downtown or the city picking up the operating costs.
As for Hizzonah's promise that Ogden would not be on the hook for construction costs... well, we heard the same about the bonding for the Junction project, and it turned out Ogden was... and is... on the hook for at least some, and potentially a lot, of them.
It would be prudent to see if the Mayor's model for funding niche sport venues here... laid out in the ice tower matter... actually works before getting involved in more costly speculative projects based on the same funding and operating model.
We need a velodrome in Ogden like I need a hole in my head. The department was just able to replace the positions cut by Godfrey through a federal grant.
If I remember correctly The Junction was not going to cost us a dime-now this one will only cost us $100,000-sure.
I dont want to be a negative nellie, but I am not sure if the Mayor has actually asked the Fire Department to cut it's budget by $200,000.00.
I did hear that they are attempting to reduce expenditures, so that if the request came to cut budgets, they would be prepared.
Someone really needs to double check the above statements to verify the facts about budget cuts.
Asking the fire department to cut expenses is kind of like squeezing blood from a turnip. Several of the stations have carbon monoxide detectors that are out of calibration and thus may not give accurate readings. The department had to wait for a new budget year to order a can of gas to calibrate the detectors.
13 million so very bored people can watch such high adventure activities as, in line roller skating (on a flat circular concrete track), bicycles going round in circles and the most high adventure activity of all, people shooting arrows at bales of straw indoors!. Wow.
Not only that, but, the city will own and be responsible for heating, cooling and maintaing the facility while some scummy fom, gets to make some change for operating it. What's to operate? open the door, set the thermostat, turn on the lights and lock up when leaving.
Oh, I get it. There may be the need to rent misc. equipment to those that don't bring their own gear. Sort of like shoes at a bowling alley.
Isn't this getting alittle to over the top? We have seasons in Utah, all of these activities are seasonal to a great degree and outdoor activities. Almost all of this lying little mayors scams involve very small niche activities at best. Ice climbing, in-line skating, bicycle racing, fake sky diving, fake surfing and of course the closest thing to mainstream as far as public appeal, floresent bowling.
It may help to remind folks that none of these ideas, though presented as inovative and novel, are. White City Bowl was for years a focal point of downtown recreation it was not only bowling but had a giant billards hall as well as a nice bar where sports betting was a favorite local pastime.
We had the Berthana which had rollerskating. And the Orpheum and Egyptian theaters.
All of these were built and operated by the private sector, and enjoyed a good degree of success. So what's new? The only real change I see is that now if you cozy up to this lying little sleazeball mayor, he'll have the taxpayer pay all you're expenses.
In fact he'll do his best to make sure that publicly funded activities won't compete with you as witnessed in his defunding the Marshall White Center.
If public funding of recreational activities is the guise being posed, let's do it in a way that benefits all of the people of this community and not only for the folks that have the most disposable cash. And certainly there is no need to profits to the likes of Jeff Lowe, Gary Neilson and Dan McEntee from tax dollars.
Bill:
You wrote: If public funding of recreational activities is the guise being posed, let's do it in a way that benefits all of the people of this community and not only for the folks that have the most disposable cash.
Couple of points. First, someone with a penchant for snark might point out that you are a well-known and out-spoken advocate of a public recreational site called Mt. Ogden Golf Course. And the course no more benefits all of the people of this community than do, say, public soccer fields or public soft ball diamonds or public tennis courts or public hiking trails or public rodeo grounds or public basketball court or public skate boarding park. I can't think of a single public subsidized recreational venue that benefits everyone in the community that subsidizes it. So I think you're setting an impossible standard for the city to meet, and one it does not meet now. And, I would say, can never meet.
Second, you wrote: And certainly there is no need to profits to the likes of Jeff Lowe, Gary Neilson and Dan McEntee from tax dollars.
Bill, if it's a public subsidized recreational venue, somebody is going to profit. Somebody profited from the sale of golf carts, or their rental, to MOGC. Somebody profited from the construction of the club house. If improvements or changes [your pick] are made to the course, somebody... landscaping firm, earth moving company, construction firms... are going to profit. So long as city work goes out on bid, even FOMs have a right to bid on it, and if they make the low bid fitting all specs, to get the contract. Provided, as I said, the work goes out on bid.
Know what? The Ogden Indoor Sports Park might actually succeed. If Ogden had to pony up a hundred K in seed money for a sports venue, I'd prefer that it had gone to the Sports Park rather than the ice tower. The Sports park has, I think the potential to appeal to and be used by a much wider segment of Ogden's resident population and those in surrounding towns.
The problem as I see it with the latest proposal from Hizzonah is not that it is inherently a loser, or that it is necessarily nonsense. The problem is that at this point it represents the same kind of pie-in-the-sky only thinly [if that] financed by un-named and apparently un-nameable sources --- those murky businesses that we are assured are panting with eagerness to pony up seven figures for naming rights, etc.
If Godfrey can show that his model for supporting without significant public funding niche sports venues works... and we have a case study already on the boards in the ice tower... the Ogden Indoor Sports Park might be worth some serious consideration. If the model works with the ice tower, and we are no where near yet being able to say that it did.
Why oh why does everything the mayor proposes need to come along with a carnival barker's patter?
...would be the only one of its kind in the United States.
Why does everything have to be a fricking secret?
Another company that wasn't identified has inquired about purchasing naming rights.
Why can't facilities like this be self-supporting?
"If we want people to jump in, we've got to get in the game," [Godfrey] said.
All I ask for is a Mayor who is the chief executive officer for the city, not a carnie working to get tourists into the Freak Show along the Midway. Is that too much to ask? I distinctly recall during the last election cycle being promised a CEO. I don't remember being promised this.
"the only one of its kind in the United States."
Everything of Godfrey's is "unique", or "the first", or "the biggest."
Except in this case, Philadephia and Cleveland appear to be well ahead of us in developing an indoor velodrome/sports park. But both ventures are struggling to get going. What would make Ogden's more viable?
Personally, I still like the idea of an indoor mountain bike facility: http://www.raysmtb.com
Curmudgen, contracting to build for the city a facility the City will own is not the same as the City building and thru lease agreement maintaining and providing upkeep for a private entity to profit, I.E. the Jackass Center.
As for public golf courses, the whole pupose is to provide the most affordable experience possible, which is a benefit realized by almost all demagraphic groups, without public golf courses, the game would be strickly the domain of the most affluent only. Futhermore, the courses are operated and maintained by the city and it's city employees, not some outside benefactor who's only objective is to pocket as much for himself as possible. The difference to parks and soccer fields is that almost all the expense is paid for by the users. And the whole community benefits from having a good munincipal golf course, last year charity tounements raised about half a million, despite the administrations negative advertizing our facility. Just think what could happen if he were on board.
Bill:
I am as you are a strong advocate of public subsidized recreational venues. Merely pointing out that part of .... I guess the "social contract" is the right term... that makes cities work [when they do work] is a willingness to fund sites for sports people don't take part in or enjoy with the understanding that other people will sit still for funding recreational venues that that first set of people do make use of or enjoy. And by that standard, an Ogden Indoor Sports Complex is not on its face a bad idea. It may not be viable once we get into the nuts and bolts of financing construction and management, I agree. But it is not on its face a bad idea necessarily.
As for leasing out operation of venues to private companies: when done right, in the right circumstances, it can be both beneficial to the users, and cost effective for the city. [No, I am not saying the way the wind tunnel ride and Salomon Center venue was structured was one of those times.] If a private management company can operate a city sports venue as well or better than the city can, and at a lower cost to the city and the users, what would be the point of not leasing the operation to them?
But it has to be looked at, case by case, venue by venue, vendor by vendor. The way cities have gotten into trouble on this is by swallowing the McCane-Gramm nonsense that private operations are always more efficient in their operations and always cost municipalities less than public operation of the same facilities. That's just nonsense. Sometimes leasing out operations makes sense. Sometimes it doesn't. One size does NOT fit all.
This is classic Godfrey bait and switch. He makes these grand proposals with the claim that city tax payer's will only be pitching in a token amount to get them going, or that the tax payers will never be on the hook for the deal if it fails, and then through a sneaky series of moves he ends up pinning the whole enchilada on these same abused tax payers.
He did it with the so called "High Tech Rec Center". Over a two or three year period he repeatedly assured all concerned tax payers that we would never be on the hook for this hopeless boondoggle. Then in a last minute sneaky move with the old lame duck council he changed the deal and in fact all of Ogden's beleaguered tax payers are now paying through the nose for his big failing white elephant.
This is the crooked little punk's MO. Lies in front, manipulations in the middle and tax payers screwed in the end.
He has no integrity, he has no honor, he has no brains, but he is plenty full of lies, manipulations and deceit.
By the way, this latest BS could actually be a good addition to Ogden in my opinion - IF what he is saying now came to pass, but given his past record of deceit, I don't see any way in hell it will only cost the city tax payers a hundred grand. I mean common, when has any of his idiotic schemes drawn significant private investment?
Remember, during one of Godfrey's gondola slide-shows he said that if he could privatize the fire department most certainly he would. Only problem was he couldn't find any buyers.
The list of Godfrey campaign supporters was heavy with developers, construction firms, and real estate types.
Perhaps, having fallen on hard times, they are pressuring him to pay back the favors by providing a venue by which at least some of them can make money?
Adam Smith:
You wrote: Remember, during one of Godfrey's gondola slide-shows he said that if he could privatize the fire department most certainly he would.
Fine illustration of the Phil Gramm "government can't do anything well; private business does can do anything better than government, and do it for less" which has sadly so much informed the Republican presidents, and congresses of late. That kind of thinking gave us the Savings and Loan crisis, the energy crisis and Enron, the mortgage meltdown, and now the collapse and bailout of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. And that same Phil Gramm, who lately led the fight to dismantle New Deal era banking regulations and so opened up the lending industry for the meltdown we are now all watching unfold, is John McCain's most trusted economic adviser and certain cabinet member. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
The biggest scam these Republican bastards have run... and are still running... is that they've privatized profit while socializing loss. The private wealthy reap the benefits of their good decisions, and the taxpayers pick up the liability for their bad ones. Here's betting the CEO's of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac will not be standing in any soup lines or welfare lines, having already banked millions upon millions for mismanaging the companies which the taxpayers are now going to bail out.
And, I hasten to add yet again, Our Mayor who would lease out the fire department if he could, is a Republican... in registration, mind, philosophy, cronyism, secrecy, hatred of open government, and his uncanny ability to make wrong decisions. [E.G. investing with Mr. Southwick, who was yet another singer in the "get government off the back of business" chorus I bet.]
Throw the bums out. Every one of them. At every level.
Curm,
you wrote: "Throw the bums out. Every one of them. At every level." referring of course to the Republican bastards you were discussing before. Of course, you can't mean McCain, since he is not a Republican, but a maverick. If you were paying close attention during his speech, there were no signs with the word Republican prominently displayed on them in the convention hall. So, I guess this year the race for president is between a Democrat and an Independent. If only ...
I hesitate to comment, given the wonderful, perceptive, and well-said comments above.
My only thought was, "So what is Godfrey proposing?"
He has no idea for funding, nor of location, and only the most vague idea of the facility itself. And yet, he has a price tag.
As I've said before, the contractors, bankers, and realty lowlifes that operate our mayor by remote control have told him they need some dough, and how much. Godfrey came up with a proposal that a child could have done, that fills the bill.
But with all his other fiascos crashing and burning all around him, failed projects and unfulfilled claims left and right, and his mendacity known to almost all, it may be a new ball game for him this time around.
does godfrey intend to ever finish anything he starts? where are these:
1. walmart
2. ice tower
3. gondola
4. the junction
5. the river project
6. the high tech center
7. the revitalization of east central ogden
8. the 21st street pond amphitheater
9. et al
now he is off to get a velodrome for ogden so we can be the biggest and bestest. good grief. google the la velodrome and look at their calendar of events. it is full 24-7 with team practice and instructions and competitions and other events geared around a population base that is slightly larger than metro-ogden. there is a reason there is only one of these in the country. that's all that can be supported. do you think you can just take your mountain bike down to the "drome" and ride in the winter? think again. these are hard wood floors and there are strict specifications for the type of bike and type of tire that is allowed. this is just another of godfrey's ill conceived hair brained ideas that will never float. he and patterson claim that they have the ice tower nearly funded, thanks to a $400,000 donation from the eccles foundation. that is a lie. lisa eccles has very clearly said they do not believe in the ice tower and they are "insulted" that the city would think that they are foolish enough to invest. now we are supposed to believe that godfrey has potential investors for this boondoggle.....not a chance. that is to just get some enthusiasm brewing. there is no money. in his desperate search for a legacy all he is going to leave behind at the end of his term is a bunch of unrealized stupid ideas; nothing even started let alone complete. the next white elephant to be announced soon is a $20 million indoor bmx/skate board training center. he's like a 9 year old who never got what he wanted for Christmas.
one other thing, scott brown is working with godfrey on this and he is the one that came up with the $13 million cost estimate. plan on the actual cost being substantially more and get your lawyers lined up to handle the suits that always follow little mr. brown. by the way; been wondering why the flow rider has been shut down at the sal-center? seems they have a huge condensation problem that has resulted in equipment failures and excessive corrosion. why you ask? because scott brown took out the manufacturers recommended air handler to save money. some savings.
WWRUI -
I heard similar comments around town lately. Very interesting.
So here's my future prospectus....
Let's see...the wave rider is closed due to the condensation factor - or lack of enough circulating clean air. OK...next up...the corrosion in said location.
Great.
Now let us go further. Food establishment next door to said "condensation" closed funhouse....how's the food there? How's the condensation factor?
Does condensation spread thru ventilation systems?? You bet it does. I'm not saying they have a problem...I'm just putting out the idea that it "might".
AND...here we go...if that happened to be the case....with said condensation....and especially in hot places...comes the best of it all....the nasty mold that gets in the walls and VENTILATION systems. Hmmmm.....so now we are potentially looking at the whole building being exposed to the dreaded mold issue!!
For those of you unfamiliar with the mold I'm talking about, please google "mycotoxins".
Get those all spread around in that building like butter in a hot oven....and watch out!
Best thing at that point....close down everything...call in the clean up crews. They are relatively inexpensive, I hear.
I know of someone who has a home in Nevada...they were away for some time...pipe broke...2 weeks later neighbor notices water running out the kitchen door. Whole house (inside) covered ceiling to floor (above water line) with black and green mold! Every piece of furniture, etc., destroyed. Cost of cleanup (SMALL HOUSE)...around $17,000...give or take some change. And THAT was just to make it so the air quality inside was better than outside...and the house can NOT be sold until said cleanup is done.
So...dear readers....love the Junk Center all you want right now...but I'm NOT going in there again! I value my lungs and my health! I don't want to find out down the road I have been poisoned by mold in there that spread from CHEAP short-cut construction of an indoor water park that went sour...so to speak.
Let alone work out in a gym, eat food, bowl or climb a wall..all the while breathing in the air that may or may not contain said mold.
Again....not saying this is the here and now...just a "what-if" scenario.
Sleep well friends.
Here...maybe a free quote from these guys would be prudent at this stage of the game....just so we know where we can better spend that $200k fireman removal money....
www.utdk.com
It's always good to plan ahead.
Can anyone explain why it is that the city needs to pony of $100,000 "in order to show private investors that the city is serious"? The possible price tag on this thing is $10 million, and Ogden City needs to put up 1% to "show we're serious."????
After even more great posts above, I hate to change the subject, but here's one for Curm.
Did you know that after a trillion US dollars and thousands of US lives to "free" Iraq, that the Iraqis have decided to let the CHINESE develop their oil resources, shutting out Western Oil companies?
Click Here
And did you know that all this stuff about Russia invading Georgia was about something far greater (as were the wars in Iraq and Afganinstan), and that was the vast oil and gas resources of the Caspian Basin, and that Bush has totally lost that too?
Click Here
Were any of these colossal angles on these issues covered sufficiently by the mainstream media, if at all?
The magnitude of the Bush administration's ineptitude will not be fully known by the public for decades, if at all.
And so we continue to watch our great nation reduced.
tax payer
it is not uncommon for investors to expect owners to put up some good faith money up front. since ogden city is the potential owner of the drome it is understandable that investors will want to see how serious, or foolish, the city is. my question is, where does the city keep coming up with their share? how is it godfrey can find money for his pet projects but there is never enough to properly staff and fund basic services. he only cares about himself and what it will take to promote his enormous ego.
What:
Well, for the ice tower, he got it first from the RAMP board, and then from the Ogden City Council. And this time, for the sports complex, he wants it from the City Council again. He hasn't hidden what he wants up front from the public or where he expects it to come from.
What's a little vague is where all the "private" contributions... millions of dollars worth... are going to come from. The Council was wise to put a block on actually writing the check for the $100K for the ice tower until Ogden Climbing Parks comes up with the construction money. In hand.
Promises of huge contributions by un-named business sources is a well-established Godfrey MO. Recall the un-named business interests that were going to contribute the mega millions so that the flatland gondola would "not cost the taxpayers anything" --- which is what he told the SE editorial board lo these several years ago now when he pitched the idea to them.
Curm, you keep refering to this Robinhood pipe dream as a sports complex. So far, what lying little matty has revealed hardly qualifies as a sports complex. Next time you're in Bountiful look at their rec center. That's a sports complex. By what lying little matty has described, I get the impression he'll spend more on seating for spectators, not space for kids to recreate doing activities they enjoy, only what the mayors cronies desire to line their pockets.
One more question, how beneficial to every resident would that $100,000.00 be if it were given to Butch at the Marshal White Center?
no one no company no bank gives 13 million dollars for something like this. no one. it will only happen if the city guarantees the note.
ed allen is a vote for godfrey.
i dont care what party he is in. he is godfreys father in law. he is on the mayors hand picked land marks commission and has been for 25 years while others with much less tenure have been kicked off the board for being there too long. he has godfrey picture included several time on his web page as an cross pollenization type of endorsement. he campaigns for godfrey.
doesnt matter what party he is associated with he will support godfreys actions. actions that will not be good for ogden.
Disgusted:
I don't think the Administration has said, or expects, one business to underwrite the whole thing. From the news story, the expectation is that the race-biking and archery organizations who expect to use the facility will raise significant funds for it. Same model as the Ice Tower, where climbing groups and related businesses are expected to pony up. Will it work? Who knows. Have to wait and see. But if it were up to me, I wouldn't make any commitments about the new three-sport complex until I knew that kind of funding model had worked for the Ice Tower.
Bill:
You wrote: One more question, how beneficial to every resident would that $100,000.00 be if it were given to Butch at the Marshal White Center?
OK, fair question... to which the obvious reply is: How beneficial to every resident would the money spent on the MOGC be if it were given to Butch at the Marshal White Center?"
Cities, Bill, are made up of many and varied constituencies, all of which reasonably expect the city to provide for their needs and wants. Golfers, Marshal White Center users, Golden Age center folks, middles class folks and up, and others. The notion, which you seem to be advocating, that every discretionary dollar in the city's budget should go to whatever you [or whoever] thinks is the most deserving cause, is a political pipe dream. Never happen. Never has. Not here, not anywhere. Not to mention that Hizzonah's argument [which I am not necessarily endorsing] is that putting up front money for these niche sports venues will bring new visitors, new business, new money and new tax revenues to the city, thus creating revenues to put into places like the MW Center.
Running a city well is a balancing act. You have to balance the needs, wants, expectations of the whole patchwork conglomeration of various populations in the city against available resources. It's an art when it's done well... an art that Hizzonah has, clearly, not mastered.
As for the proposal being a "sports center": Bill, it would as envisioned, include venues for three sports... skating, bike racing and archery. Sorry, compadre, but "sports center" seems a reasonable thing to call it.
Disgusted:
You wrote: ed allen is a vote for godfrey.
i dont care what party he is in. he is godfreys father in law. he is on the mayors hand picked land marks commission.
I think, Disgusted, you are confusing Mr. Ed Allen with Mr. Bernie Allen. Ed Allen is not listed as a member of the landmarks commission. Mr. Bernie Allen is.
As for the Landmarks Commission being "hand picked" by the Mayor... well, of course it is. Every city advisory committee is filled with the mayor's nominees. One of the jobs of the mayor is to make appointments to those commissions and committees. And however much your... or I... are unhappy about it, the voters put the mayor back in office one year ago. And so he has the power to appoint to the committees, because the voters gave it to him. I, like you, wish they hadn't. But they did.
Second:"He is Godfrey's father in law." True enough. Have daughters, Disgusted? Think you have any real control over who they might decide to marry? If your answer is "yes," then I have this bridge in Brooklyn I just acquired full title to that I can let you have for a very reasonable price [small unmarked bills only please].
I hold no man responsible for who his in-laws are. Nor should you.
curmudgeom you are right in that i confused bernie and ed but what is their relationship. is it father and son or brother.
bernie has been on the committee for 25 years and yet godfrey just released several members from several committees because he stated they had served too long. in actuality he was stacking the committees at the expense of listening to what the residents actually want.
and didnt ed allen write a big letter to the se going on about how great his son in law was.
i wish more people voted for the individual on the ballot rather than associate the candidate with a specific party.
i wish more people voted for the individual on the ballot rather than associate the candidate with a specific party.
if that were the case ed wouldnt have a chance imho
I wish more people voted for the individual on the ballot rather than associate the candidate with a specific party.
So probably do we all. But so long as party matters in the running of a legislature... and it does, it does... I think the wish is not likely to come true. So long as party determines who leads each house, who chairs every committee and which bills make it to the floor for a vote... or get stuffed into other bills late in the session without a vote... the party of a candidate matters a great deal.
Bernie Allen has been on the Landmark commission for many more years than his in-law Godfrey has been mayor, so it is hard to indict his motives vis-a-vis said commission or say that he was hand picked by Godfrey to do his bidding.
Although I question the motives of all Godfreyites on all subjects, I can't say as I doubt Bernie's motives when it comes to historical preservation, which I presume is the mission of the Landmark Commission. Bernie also has a good record when it comes to buying and preserving Ogden's historical buildings.
Ed Allen and Bernie Allen are brothers.
I asked the Mayor at our work meeting the other night to what extent the City would fund the veladrom and he replied that those figures weren't available because there are a number of unknown factors but that it would be in the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of dollars. I mentioned that I felt that with the increased water rates and fees that we could not expect residents to pay for the veladrome, and he said that was right and that we wouldn't, the money would come from BDO funds. The money that is supposed to be used for infrastructure -- besides new water and sewer pipes, it is for streets and sidewalks. One way or another, the residents will pay for the Mayor's projects sooner or later.
WWRUI,
Not only did they try to save money on the Flowrider ventilation system, earlier this summer a young teen almost lost one of her toes because a pad required to keep participants safe was removed from the ride after it was torn.
Instead of putting the torn pad back up or purchasing a new one, the management decided to remove it all together. The pad protected riders hands, fingers, hair, etc. from being sucked down into the machinery.
When the young riders toe was sucked into the machinery, her toe barely remained attached to her foot. She was immediately rushed to the hospital for surgery.
She was a nationally ranked young runner and because of the injury, missed a vey exclusive invitational national meet.
There is no excuse for letting kids ride or participate in something that may cause them injury or harm because equipment is knowingly set up improperly.
Will the world's top athletes come here if we can't provide safe, top-of-the-line facilities?
Dorrene:
Thanks again, especially for the Mayor's estimate of the size of the city's contribution [which I don't think was in the SE story]. And the fact that the number at this point is "soft" as they say, meaning the likelihood is that it will in the end be higher than is now anticipated. Seems it always is....
WTG, Oz.
still doesnt explain away why certain members were removed from several committees for tenure reasons and bernie was not especially since he has serves for considerably more time than many of those members that were removed.
blood is thicker than water particularly when it comes to local politics.
dorrene and for that matter all city council memebers
noticed that on the rda agenda that there is a request by administration to reallocate what is being deemed as surplus to budgeted dollars.
why doesnt the rda use those dollars to make up the short fall at the junction rather than spend those dollars else where. this will keep the city general fund from having to make up the short fall.
another idea is to save the funds for a rainy day.
another question. why are we just about the only community that is looking at new projects when other communities are tightening their belts and building rainy day funds waiting for the dark clouds to move off.
Curm, I won't argue that there is not alot of diversity when it comes to supplying the genaral public with recreation on public money. You are forcing me to spend time educating you on something you all ready know and believe yourself. I'm not being snarky, but for the benefit of others reading, I'll write this as if you are a bone headed godfreyite, that has consumed far too much kool-aid.
There is only so much a city the size of Ogden can spend on public recreation, that said, it only makes sense to spend those dollars wisely to get the most benefit for the buck. So, the Marshall White Center; Curm, it may suprize an east bench resident that works at WSU to learn that Ogden City has a severve problem with gangs and gang violence.All experts on the topic aggree that you have to reach these at risk kids between the ages of 6 and 12, if you don't, you've probably lost them.
The afforementioned $100,000.00 if given to the Marshall White Center would be getting a two for one on our dollars. Public recreation and hopefully an opportunity to reach these at risk kids thru participation in organized structured sports with possitive roll models as coaches and adult volunteers, that they may never get exposed to without. I'm sorry that I don't have some magic formula to come to a dollar figure per individual to empress our republican neighbors for the value of saving one kids life, but these same neighbors may someday be the victem of their criminal behavior, and are all ready paying the huge bills for the incarceration and after the fact punishment of these kids crimes. It doesn't take a rocket scientist, or even our good friend Professor Dan, to see the effects realized by lying little matty's defunding the Marshall White Center and the rize in gang violence. It happens that fast.
I hope your kool-aid fog hasn't got you believing that archery enthusiasts from all over the world are just waiting to pull up stakes and move to Ogden to join the 25 or 30 potential ice climbers, if these grand expensive ,you call them niche, I call them ridiculous venues are achieved. Same for rollerskating and bike riding.
My point is, we can be smart about where and how we spend our public recreation dollars, and in my veiw, our recreation dollars should be spent on the recreation of our population, for their use. Not as some phony pie in the sky greedy crony serving pipe dream thats targeted to foreiners.
Oh, and Curm, for the most part, and lying little matty has even acknowleged it, what's been called loses at Mt. Ogden golf course is just interest compounded on interest for an inner city loan that was used to build soccer fields, parking lots and tennis courts.
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