In the interest of setting up a community-based platform for the discussion of last night's shocking Ogden City firefight, here's last night's initial Standard-Examiner story, reporting on the shootout which occurred in the vicinity of Ogden City's 33rd Street and Jackson Avenue:
In a followup story, the Standard reports that one police officer has died as a result of gunshot wounds:
This story's also "gone viral" across the national news media, with writeups appearing everywhere from the Washington Post to the Austin Statesman. While Ogden City boosters have been knocking themselves out trying to put Ogden City "on the map" for many years, this is most certainly not what they had in mind.
While details still remain sketchy, we'll open up the discussion of this disturbing incident, so our gentle Weber County Forum readers can chime in with their own takes. Although we agree with WCF readers Bob Becker and Ray that now is NOT the time to "play politics" with this story, we'll also add that even at this early date, keeping last week's strong Standard-Examiner editorial in mind, we don't believe a general discussion of police tactics in serving search warrants in residential neighborhood settings is entirely inappropriate or premature.
The world-wide webosphere eagerly awaits the ever-earnest outpourings of those of us living here in and around Ogden City, the nation's most recent "War On Drugs" urban battleground.
We'll also express our sincere best wishes to all Weber-Morgan Narcotics Strike Force and Ogden Police Department officers who were wounded in this unfortunate event, along with our heartfelt condolences which we offer to the grieving friends, family and law enforcement colleagues of Agent Jared Francom, the first Ogden Police Department officer to lose his life in the line of duty in Ogden City since the legendary OPD hero Marshall White.
Have at it, WCF Readers.
Update 1/5/12 10:38 a.m.: In this newly uploaded story, the SE reveals the names of the injured officers and the suspected "perp":
The Standard is also now carrying the video from this morning's press conference on its website home page. Here's the embedded video via the Standard's sexy new "Live Show Podcaster Site":
Watch live streaming video from standardnet at livestream.com
We'll of course provide further updates here on WCF as this story continues to develop.
Update 1/5/12 5:33 p.m.: Here's the latest S-E story, for what it's worth:
Update 1/6/12 7:14 a.m.: For the sake of our WCF readers who do not subscribe to our home-town newspaper, here are another seven (Count 'em 7) Standard-Examiner stories which have popped up on the S-E site (and in the print edition) since our last update:
- Ogden police shooting likely death penalty case
- Donation accounts set up for police officers shot
- Ogden shooting reverberates in Davis County
- 3 shot officers remain in critical condition
- Hundreds pay tribute to officers at vigil
- Sharing the pain
- Stewart's family heartbroken over shooting
Whew!
Update 1/7/12 6:00 a.m.: The latest from the Standard-Examiner (and now the Salt Lake Tribune):
- Accused shooter's attorney has worked with injured Ogden officers
- Wounded Ogden officer now in fair condition, hospital says
- Cops need to revise 'knock and search' method
- Ogden police getting weekend help on patrol
- Retired Ogden officer relives memories of brushes with criminals
- Injured officer says he’s ‘devastated’ by Ogden shooting
- ‘Knock-and-announce’ warrants are the standard
48 comments:
The U-Tube video posted on the Standard.Net shows the real problems of Ogden. As the Asst Police Chief walks away you can hear laughter from the by-standers. What a sad day to loose an officer, have others wounded and the casual comments and laughter in this tragedy.
Tragic.
Unfortunately, like I've said before, as long as there is money to be had from illegal activities people will do them. In this case, being drugs, there really isn't much we can do on the local level to fix this.
So a guy in a house drinking bourbon - no problem.
A guy in a house smoking hemp (or using some other drug that the government doesn't like) and we have a swarm of cops, a gunfight and seven down.
Makes sense, huh?
Also, how does one guy shoot six cops?
A couple of weeks ago the Ogden Police shut down a motel because people were suspected of paying for sex in the rooms. All voluntary, no coercion, all adults. The cops shut the business down.
If Ogden's reputation takes a hit, it should.
This is a fiasco.
"The cops shut the business down."
No, they didn't. The City closed the business. The police merely carried out the order, issued by the City, to vacate the premises because the owner had lost his license to operate the business.
There has to be more to this than some guy smoke'n a doobie. What ever the real reason for it I fill compelled to reach out to the officers that were wounded and to the family of the fallen police officer. This is a tragedy for any city. Sucks for sure.
likely.. probably some middle man distributor, why would you shoot someone over a simple possession charge.
Something like 1/3 of the prison population is in for mere possession.
Why would you lock up so many people for mere possession?
Why would you bash somebody's door down then be surprised when they shoot at you?
.... the owner had lost the license.....
They cops hassled the place then they cops together with the city shut it down.
Fancy it up all you want. That's what happened.
This country locks up more people than almost any other.
It's a police state. No wonder it is violent.
The officers involved lacked the training and equipment necessary to the mission. Blame outgoing Chief Griener. If he was not so caughtup in squeezing every penny from the city coffers, and building big brother blimps, he cold have kept his eye on the ball, and we would not have a new opening on the force.
Thanks for the multiple story links, Rudi. I'm' always grateful to you when you gather up all the important story links, so I don't have to do that myself.
I've just sent you a PayPal $100 dollar donation, by the way..
Thanks for what you do, Rudi.
I honestly don't know what we could have done to thwart the ambitious intentions of the "government intervenrionist Matthew Godfrey Fascist mayor."
Thanks for the multiple story links, Rudi. I'm' always grateful to you when you gather up all the important story links, so I don't have to do that myself.
I've just sent you a PayPal $100 dollar donation, by the way..
Thanks for what you do, Rudi.
I honestly don't know what we could have done to thwart the ambitious intentions of the "government intervenrionist Matthew Godfrey Fascist mayor," without you.
Sounds like bullshit to me Buzz.
Yeah, Donk, I agree. Trying to spin this tragedy for some kind of political edge is a sorry business while one officer lies dead, and five more are still in the hospital, several in critical condition. Hoping the five pull through in the end, and grateful for the medical staff and their skills working to make that happen.
I just received notice of your PayPal donation, Fed Up. Many thanks!
Father: Suspect in deadly Utah police shootout had PTSD, depression, may have been using pot
I'd advocate withholding judgment until the facts are in, but given the current climate of the thin blue line and lack of governmental transparency, I think it's safe to say we'll never be told the entire truth about what went on.
What we do know, without needing to be told, is that no-knock and kn0ck-and-enter warrants get nasty sometimes. We also know that the use of these warrants is proliferating recently.
It's an easy thing to look at events in retrospect. However, if we (collectively) are going to make better decisions going forward, that's exactly what we must do.
How many opportunities throughout the process--from obtaining a "credible tip" that something was going on in the house to the moment that they broke down the door--were there for the law enforcement brass, the issuing judge, and the officers themselves to alter the outcome?
It's an easy thing to say that appropriate procedures were followed. In this case, however, if many of those involved are not second-guessing some of the procedures and choices that precipitated these outcomes, they don't deserve the power and authority that their jobs afford them.
Further, to have the county attorney discussing capital charges at this point is reprehensible. It's a generally held notion that, under the rule of law, we investigate before we determine for what we will prosecute.
Finally, was I the only one disgusted with Mr. Caldwell's statement about how hard it was for him in his first day on the job? Seriously? Mr. Mayor, it probably is hard for you. But today it's not about how bad you've had it. It's about the officers and the families involved in the event.
That was longer than I'd meant. I'd sure like to know what really happened.
Somebody please reassure me that Agent Jared Francom wasn't blown away in this incident because the cops were merely trying to bust a pot smoking, mentally messed up war vet.
An interesting tid in one of the recent on-line S.E. reports on this incident: " Among the questions that authorities will try to answer was whether the officers, in the chaotic moments upon entering the house, may have inadvertently fired on each other. "
Hmm. What did someone see that raised that particular question?
Adv365 has outed himself as a government troll.
Today there would be a war vet growing hemp and smoking it from time to time, harming no one, including himself.
Instead, the cops turned Ogden into Teheran last night, with dead and wounded.
They hate us in Teheran. They are smarter than we are.
Hey cops and pro-totalitarian apologists: There are no known adverse side effects to hemp. There ARE known side effects to shootouts in residential neighborhoods.
The propagandized masses will never think for themselves. We need a leader.
Bullets don't discriminate.
You think well trained officers would be shooting themselves? The buck stops right at Grieners desk, and he knows it.
"mentally messed up," can lead to almost anything. Who are we to say what the perception is for someone who is in an altered state of reality. Smoking pot just might and probably would amplify that. It is a sad sad situation especially for those children who have to grow up without their father and their mother who has to raise them alone. May the others pull through in health.
Killing police officers is WRONG. Last time I checked, police don't bother people who are just smoking pot inside their homes. They don't really care. So long as you don't bring it out into the streets, or shoot at people, or threaten people, or do anything stupid, COPS DON'T CARE. They have bigger fish to fry.
Ogden is totally out of control. If the comments I've read are any indicator of what is going on there, Ogden is a complete cesspool. It's not okay to think cop killing is cool. Also, police don't put people in prison. Criminals put themselves in prison by breaking the law. The LAW IS WHAT GIVES US OUR FREEDOM!
Oh, come on. Cops don't bash down doors for "no reason". Wake up. The guy was waiting with a loaded gun ready to kill some cops. That's just wrong.
Cop killers should all die. Sorry. I guess I've spent too much time here in Los Angeles and have too much respect for the police who protect me from scumbags who might ruin my neighborhood here in the Miracle Mile.
"...Is America a Police State? My answer is; maybe not yet, but it is fast approaching..." - Congressman Ron Paul (June 27, 2002)
Common sense tells us that this incident should serve as a wake-up call for law enforcement agencies to re-evaluate & modify all of their search warrant laws as well as "forceful entry" procedures and protocols.
Police here in Utah are becoming increasingly Gestapo-like in their tactics & overall attitude.
Because of arrogance & stupidity, one is dead others are wounded.
Ogden is totally out of control. If the comments I've read are any indicator of what is going on there, Ogden is a complete cesspool.
Jenny, you'll find the same sort of comments on the SL Trib sites for this story. And on the national news sites that reported the story. Stories like this one bring out the trolls every time all the time, no matter where. They've always been there, the small subset of Americans who are convinced every officeholder is a crook, that every cop is a fascist thug, that every law enforcement agencies lies, that all public authority has as it sole aim the suppression of freedom and enrichment of office holding crooks. All that's happened is that the internet has moved their paranoid ravings from their own homes to public view. Ogden, SLC, NYC, San Francisco or Peoria: you'll find the same all over.
you are not aware of what is happening, right under your nose? or do you just refuse to accept what you see? you speak of freedom? hah! walk down your favorite street with a gun on your hip. dare ya. it is after all one of our so called rights. do it, i will either send a lil something to burial fund, or put some money on your books.
troll? i don't suppose you know of any legal "controlled" substance violations this citizen was charged or convicted of? guess suspicion = shoot to kill? dont tell me they went in that house unprepared! and even if so, who's fault really is that? moron! if you have FACTS let us all see. i do, and i am not afraid to share them. you can never manipulate these FACTS to fit your ignorant agenda!
Jenny says,
Last time I checked, police don't bother people who are just smoking pot inside their homes.
Gee, I thought that's exacly what all these articles were talking about! A police raid on a guy for growing hemp!
wince the investigation is ongoing we do not know who fired the fatal shots. Did the suspect kill and wound the officers or were some officers ufourtanely caught in a hail of gunfire by other policeman. Lets reserve judgement untilthe facts are presented.
The silence is deafening. I'd like to see the original warrant, the affidavit that spawned the warrant, and the ME's report.
Further, I'd like an investigation conducted by an _independent_ agency with citizen oversight.
Oh, and video from the scene would be nice. All of it.
I seldom get what I want.
why was one man able to shoot SIX armed & trained officers ... how can this be?
sorrow and prayers for those hurt or worse ...
BB
Jenny, may I suggest you return from La-La-Land, open your eyes, close your mouth, and hopefully get just a bit of a grip onto reality. And Ogden is no different than any other city in this country, with the possible exception of the amount of people like you, brainwashed sheep, followers, with no idea of truth.
There were 12 cops all together. Did the other 6 just kind of watch the whole thing go down? Definite bad smell here. I wonder if the truth will ever be told
I don't know the truth, but have heard that Stewart was in a shed. It seems to me that it is a lot harder to hit a target in a shed that you cannot see than to hit cops who may have been much more out in the open.
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Why was this such an urgent matter that the police had to carry out the search warrant while it was dark outside. Doesn't this put the safety of not only the police officers, but also the suspect and neighbors at risk? Some burglars have been known to try to gain entry into a house by knocking on the door and yelling "police". At night, you would probably think it was a burglar and you can hardly see the person. From what it sounds like, he has never been in trouble with the law before and didn't seem to be a threat to the police so why did they send the SWAT team to serve the warrant? Since they deemed him enough of a threat to have the SWAT team serve the warrant, why was he able to get out of his house and into a shed? Doesn't this seem to be a dangerous mistake since you never know what a suspect has in his shed and could use the shed to take cover? This whole even sounds fishy and wasn't planned out very well. My heart goes out to the officers and their families. In my opinion it was risky to do something like this at night when he could have easily thought someone was breaking into his house and fired at them. A lot of innocent citizens have shot intruders in their houses only to find out the intruder was a law enforcement officer. Honestly, I don't answer the door at night unless I know for certain who it is.
let's reserve judgement. For the time being he is accused of killing a cop. It's possible as Blackrulon mentioned that the officers were victims of friendly fire. It's also possible that he thought the officers were burglars trying to break into his house and just because someone knocks on your door and yells "police" doesn't mean they actually are a cop. Criminals have also been known to knock on doors and yell "Police" in order to get someone to open their door so they can enter the house to harm the occupants or commit a home invasion robbery. At night, it also would be hard to determine if someone at the door or inside your house is a police officer.
Since when is it considered being a troll to disagree with a new story?
Perhaps the suspect didn't realize he was shooting at a cop or the officers were the victims of friendly fire. Not all people who knock on your door and yell police are real police officers. I agree that killing a police officer is wrong but I also believe in innocent until proven guilty. I imagine the police don't park directly in front of the house every time they serve warrants or arrest someone. If they did, some suspects would see the car and take off. With no police cars in site and total darkness how does he know the person knocking at his door and yelling "Police" is really a cop and not someone trying to get him to open the door. There are plenty of tragic stories where homeowners have accidentally shot law enforcement officers thinking they were burglars or other criminals. I think the Standard or other news outlet reported that he was probably asleep when they knocked on his door. It's possible he didn't hear them when they knocked and identified themselves as police and was awoken by his door being kicked in and he immediately thought someone was breaking into his house. We don't know all the details at this time other than they were serving a warrant when all this went down.
It's not. It is however when expressing disagreement runs to accusing all police of being fasc ist thugs etc. And when "idiot!" and "moron!" are offered as substantive arguments.
I'm stunned at how many comments are based off assumptions. Too critical examine what took place that night ALL the facts need to be presented before we make rash claims or opinions. But then again, that may be to rational for some ...
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you
Ogden Metro S.W.AT. training.
Bang, bang, bang, you're Dead.
Any questions?
Release the warrant AND the affidavit used to obtain the warrant!
Your joking? Right? I dont think you evan know about your freedoms ! I find it funny how this pot smoker with no criminal background is painted as a terrorist with a bomb just after senate bill 1867 dont be a sheeple ! But anyway its tragic all this happend over a plant that is legal on two boardering states co, and nv
Have you guys seen the video on the blair raid in roy ? Check it out it was a murder in my eye's
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