Wednesday, October 29, 2008

This Democrat is supporting Brent Wallis in Legislative District 10

A strong endorsement from one of Weber County Forum's most respected contributors

By Dan Schroeder

Utah House District 10 lies at the southern end of Weber County, centered on the WSU campus. With the retirement of Democrat Lou Shurtliff, the District 10 House seat is now open and strongly contested.

The Democratic nominee is Ed Allen: a dermatologist, former state senator, founding chair of the Lift Ogden Committee, father-in-law of Mayor Godfrey, and member of one of Ogden's most politically active families. On the Republican side is Brent Wallis, who recently retired after 36 years as president of the Ogden-Weber Applied Technology College.

Although I live just outside District 10, I'm interested in this race because I work at WSU and because of Allen's connection to Lift Ogden and Mayor Godfrey. I've also met Dr. Allen and found him to be both arrogant and dishonest. When he was on the WSU campus promoting the gondola in 2006, a friend of mine even heard Allen say "they're all idiots up here"-- referring to the WSU faculty and administration. I can only assume that this attitude, and his pro-gondola agenda, would carry over into his work as a legislator. I especially fear that he would use his position to pressure WSU into selling its foothill property for private development.

So even though I've been a life-long Democrat, I cannot support Dr. Allen.

But what about Allen's opponent?

I'm embarassed to admit that until a few months ago I didn't know who Brent Wallis was. But many people I trust -- Democrat and Republican -- know him well and have told me only good things about him. Obviously Wallis has demonstrated a lifelong commitment to education and to the economic future of Weber County. And after decades spent advocating for the ATC, he knows the legislature inside and out. Still, he's a Republican, so it's fair to ask whether he would promote the far-right agenda of much of Utah's Republican leadership.

For months I hoped that a clear answer to this question would somehow come my way -- but it didn't. So last week I finally picked up the phone and called Wallis, explaining that although I didn't live in his district I still had some questions. He invited me to his house the next day, when we talked for over an hour.

Wallis explained that his only specific agenda in running for office is to be an advocate for Weber County -- including WSU and the ATC. He explained how if we don't have a strong and effective advocate, our tax dollars will be spent in other parts of the state.

Wallis is aware of the problems with Utah's property tax system, but believes that the solution is to assess properties more often and more fairly--not to shift the tax burden from property tax to sales tax, as some Republicans are advocating. He emphasized the importance of funding our schools from the most stable revenue sources (income and property tax), rather than sales tax. He is generally against raising taxes, but seems open to the idea of indexing the gasoline tax to inflation, instead of diverting more money from the General Fund to highway construction.

Regarding land use, Wallis favors local control at the city and county level. He would oppose any further attempts by the Legislature to eliminate zoning restrictions in the name of "private property rights".

Wallis supports Utah's open records and open meetings laws; as president of the ATC, he learned through experience that everyone benefits when the public's business is conducted transparently.

Based on these and other issues that we discussed, I am convinced that Brent Wallis is a political moderate who cares more about good government than about partisan ideology. He deserves the support of both Democrats and Republicans, and I'm proud to endorse him in this election.


ozboy said...


What a novel idea, vote for the person and not the party! Too bad the ever so clever Mr. Curmudgeon doesn't pick up on this concept. A dogmatic straight party democrat is every bit as dangerous as the republican robots we have here in Zion.

The question becomes however, how does this new found republican friend of yours keep from being co-opted by the evil republican power brokers in his own party? It seem that around these parts it doesn't matter how honorable and well intentioned a republican is, when they get in office their manipulating party bosses whip them into the neo-con agenda or isolate them and then get rid of them at the next election.

vote for the candidate, not the party! said...


I know Brent Wallis and nobody is going to whip him into shape for their particular ideology.

He did a magnificent job on the ATC school just North of 2nd Street over many years. He started with a very small school and made it into the excellent facility that it is today.

That took a lot of communication with the powers that be on the Utah State government level at the capitol. I say he can be very effective for us.

I also know Brent's opponent because I made the mistake of helping him in his last campaign which he lost..

There is a wonderful saying that fits Ed Allen to a "t",

"He is a self-made man and he worships the creator."

Deliver us all from Ed Allen!

rosko pee ko train said...

Sara Palin is the best for House Seat 10. But then again I hear ED looks great in ponytails and a skirt.

Just ask Wallis he'll tell ya. They like tp play dress up all the time.

lets get it done said...

Wallis may be good now but wait till dave Clark and bramble get a hold ov them. then he will be just like Gibson, a whooped little school girl.

a military Democrate said...

I live in the district and I called Mr. Wallis soon after he announced he was running. I too will cross over and vote for the man.
I feel someone with his experience will be an asset especially since he has never held public office. He has maintained the ATC and has found ways to fund the school and should be an advocate for Weber County and the College.

Curmudgeon said...


Exactly. The Utah legislature, Republican side, is very much a "get along to go along" kind of place. Mr. Wallis may be pure as the driven snow, but to get anything at all done for his constituents, he will have to play ball with Curtis/Bramble/Valentine and carry their water most of the time. If he does not, he will be isolated and fed not even crumbs from Chris Buttars legislative table. It's the nature of the beast, and will continue to be, until the R side no long controls 80% of the seats in each house.

Which is why, regardless of who Democratic Ed Allen is related to by marriage --- odd for a scientist to judge candidates even in part by their in-laws, que no? --- he is the better choice for Utah, and for Ogden, in this election. But hey, folks who think the course of wisdom is to take a D seat and use it to swell the Curtis/Bramble/Buttars majority by one, have at it. It's your choice to make.

RudiZink said...

LOL, Curm, ya yeller dog demo, you!

A vote for Allen is the same as a vote for Godfrey. Try to get your shit together.

Wallis, BTW, has been stomping the legislature for a number of decades, longer than most current legislators have been legislators. He's smart, moderate and tough.

If you don't believe me... why not give Mr. Wallis a call... like Dan did?

We know you're getting a little long in the tooth... and set in your ways...

but why not try something new, once in your life?

Lifelong Democrat said...

If we don't elect decent, responsible Republicans how will that side of the House ever improve?

Britney Spears said...

Honestly, I think we should just trust Mr. Curmudgeon in every decision that he makes and we should just support that.

Rob said...

Ed Allen has my endorsement and take it from somebody who has had a front row seat at the state legislature for the last four years, we need Ed Allen, and more Democrats like him.

I don't know Mr. Dan Schroeder, but I do know Ed, and the Ed he is describing just doesn't exist.

Ed is a honorable man who is running for this seat because he was asked too. Party leaders understood that we needed someone of impeccable character, and we knew that person was Ed.

On another note, I am being interviewed tomorrow on blogging and will be mentioning this blog, and that it my opinion that anyone who is interested in politics in Weber County, whether one agrees with this blog's opinions, or not, should visit this blog frequently if you truly want to know what is happening in Weber County politics.

With every best wish,

Rob Miller
Vice Chair, Utah Democratic Party

Lester said...

I'll make a deal with you Curm.

I, being a life long republican, will break that ancient tradition and vote for this Obama feller, a democrat I heard, if you, a life long democrat, will vote for at least one republican, in this case this Wallis fellow.

Try it, you might like it. Hold your nose if you have to.

And sorry Rob, but you got a turkey going with this Allen. He's a Neo Conservative republican in disguise, and it has also been my experience that he is arrogant and disingenuous. Good gawd man, he couldn't even beat the evil Griener!

dan s. said...

oz, lets, & curm:

In any election we necessarily base our decisions in part on speculation about what a candidate might do if elected. But it's important to base these speculations upon fact as much as possible. Today I heard some pundits speculating that a certain presidential candidate would rewrite the constitution and raise the income tax rate to 80%--but that doesn't make it true.

In the Allen-Wallis race we know a lot about the candidates, since both have been prominent local citizens for decades. Under these circumstances, to speculate about what they would do purely on the basis of their party affiliations is both superficial and irresponsible.

Of course there will be pressure from the Republican leadership to support all sorts of whacky bills. But why would a Republican be any more susceptible to this pressure than a Democrat? If anything, Democrats are even more at the mercy of the leadership if they want their favorite legislation to ever see the light of day. At least Wallis already knows the system well enough that he won't be taken off guard. And by all accounts, he's far more honest than Allen--and more respected.

Curm: Family relationships among elected officials create potential conflicts of interest. In the case of Allen and Godfrey, we also know that they've collaborated closely on political campaigns. It would be reckless to disregard such facts in deciding which candidate to support.

Agreed said...

I recently attended a candidate night for the Chamber of Commerce where in essence Eddy said, "We don't need the Ogden ATC...." Today I received his mailer which now says he supports the ATC and the jobs it creates. WHAT THE?

Also, look at Mr. Allen's SWEET record as a senator...(laser pointer laws...duh-any dumb person knows that it is dangerous to point a red laser at a police officer. He wasted my tax dollars and YOURS.) Then just have fun checking out his productivity at the capitol.

Also, what's with no re-election. Didn't like him well enough as a senator, eh?

Wallis is approachable. He has worked cross party lines and he is tough. You don't start a school with under 100 students and grow it to what it is today (10,000+ per year), and get the school accredited without being TOUGH.

Check out what Brent Wallis has done to help Weber County--quite a lengthy list. I dare MD Allen (Dermatologist) to contend with such.

disgusted said...

allen has no common sense and has shown bad judgement on more than one occasion. give me a guy or gal with common sense and good judgement any day over someone who does not have any.
curm once again hasnt thought this one out or he cant get past his bias against the republican party to judge the individual candidate rather than the party affiliation.

RudiZink said...

Nice to see you checking in here Rob; but the leg 10 race in Ogden goes far beyond GOP/DEMO politics.

Here's all any Leg. 10 voter needs to know about addled Ed Allen:

Ed Allen 9/29/07 Letter

Trust me on this.

Good luck in all the other Utah demo races, Rob. But when it comes to interfering in the local political situation, please butt out unless and until you can take the time to understand the important local issues.

You'll make no friends here with your halfassed endorsement of Dumb Ed.

dan s. said...


Well, I do agree with curm on this: that we need to look at more than just local issues in deciding who should represent us in the legislature. That's why I met with Wallis and asked him about a bunch of state-wide issues.

Curmudgeon said...

Rudi, Lester and Agreed:

Rudi: I've become a yellow dog Democrat in Utah, out of necessity. But, just fyi, I've voted for Republicans for offices as high as governor before. Voted for Republican Buddy Roemer in Louisiana for Governor. The alternatives were Democrat Edwin "the silver zipper" Edwards [currently in federal prison] and Republican David Duke [former American Nazi and Klan leader]. If the legislature here were split, say 60/40, I'd have the luxury of voting the candidate and not the party. But given the current skewed, and very unhealthy for Utah, ratios in the legislature, and the consequences thereof, I don't.

Lester: Sorry, no deal. Your vote for Obama in Utah will have, sadly exactly zero practical consequences [see latest polls], whereas my vote for Willis, if the race is close, and it may be since the seat is now in D hands, might have significant consequences. Nice try, though.... [grin].

Agreed: You wrote Also, what's with no re-election. Didn't like him well enough as a senator, eh?

You need to do a little homework, before drawing conclusions like that. Sen. Allen was gerrymandered out of his seat at the last redrawing of the lines.... a gerrymander so blatantly politically driven that it embarrassed even the Republican National Committee... and we all know what it takes to embarrass them.

Kevin said...

I agree with Curm and Rob and will support Ed Allen

See the back room deals said...

There back.... That is the Envision crowd has given Jeremy Peterson 2,000.00 for his race and I wonder if this is the money that group raised last year using the high adventure buildings, and didn't have a concract to use the buildings and how is it they can use taxpayer porerty to raise pac money and never report it to the state. I understand that this is a violation of state law and is a felony for so doing. Is bill c. still around. He should call Rep Hansen about this. I talk to him also. If Jeremy's Peterson is with this group he could go to jail with the rest of them. the deal usually goes to the one that squils first. So start rating on your friends.

RudiZink said...

"I agree with Curm and Rob and will support Ed Allen"

Well there you have it. Ed Allen, the favorite of the Godfreyites.

Drewmeister said...

Thank heavens I'm in district 9, and don't have to worry about this - I'll be voting for Neil Hansen with absolutely no qualms about it. He has a voting record I agree with, the tenacity to keep putting forth bills in a legislature filled to the brim with mouth-breathing fucktards, and was the only one of the candidates back in the '05 mayoral election primaries to even respond to my emails - by showing up at my house to answer my questions!

Neil Hansen, FTW!

Back Room said...

Seems Neil Hansen opponent works for "G" Train and will have a phone bank out of her office. Neil will get re-elected since he has more clout in the Legislature, and the respect of his district.

Curmudgeon said...

See The Back:

Envision is, I think, Lift Ogden, repackaged but with adult leadership this time.

Curmudgeon said...


So, now I'm a Godfreyite, eh? OK, two can play this game.

There you have it... Willis, the favorite candidate in Dist. 10 of Bramble, Curtis and Valentine, Utah's wing-nut right.

Jason W. said...

It's Wallis, Good Old (?) Curmudgeon. Wallis. And, yes, addled Ed Allen's Senate District was redrawn and likely to his disadvantage, but you conveniently leave out one salient point: he subsequently lost an election. The people, as you so often pontificate, voted him out. Redrawing the boundaries didn't automatically eject his arrogant fatass from his Senate seat, did it? Further, you covertly insert whackjob Buttars into a leadership position to justify your "right-wing-nut" troika of polemicals. In fact, your dogged Democrat-at-any-cost dogma is sounding suspiciously like:

"Take the next step! Take the next step! Take the next step! Take the next step!"

To follow is something about your pal I wrote just for you and some other residents in District 10:

It is imperative the voters in Legislative District 10 understand the Democratic candidate’s history regarding his work on behalf of developers, his campaign to trade public land for a down-payment on an absurd theme-park contraption, and his dangerous behavior on a host of vital land-use issues.

Dr. Ed Allen is the founder of Lift Ogden, a failed guerilla marketing arm deployed by said house candidate, Wayne “Chris” Peterson, and Ogden Mayor Matt Godfrey – the doctor’s son-in-law – to scare us citizens that our town was dying and our only salvation was a ridiculous urban gondola and a non-existent, infeasible “resort” to be constructed without roads in Malan’s Basin.

As the group’s initiator, Dr. Allen advocated selling our Mt. Ogden Golf Course at pennies on the dollar to finance perhaps one-fourth the cost of this silly flatland gondola contraption; as a principal in the scheme, this would-be legislator tried desperately to con the public into believing we could build and sell hundreds of million-dollar luxury homes on slivers of state- and city-owned acreage; as a leader of this aggressive cadre, Dr. Allen sought to mute dissent, divide the community, belittle the opposition, and make us turn blind eyes toward common sense and fiscal reality; and as the progenitor of such nonsense, Dr. Allen owes all of Ogden, District 10 and Weber County an apology.

Ed Allen has proven he has neither the capacity nor the intent to represent the people, rather than special interests, on any level, in any role.


Curmudgeon said...

OK, I'll break my rule about not replying to Jason rants. And I'll probably regret it, as I usually do.

Jason wrote: Yes, addled Ed Allen's Senate District was redrawn and likely to his disadvantage, but you conveniently leave out one salient point: he subsequently lost an election. The people, as you so often pontificate, voted him out. Redrawing the boundaries didn't automatically eject his arrogant fatass from his Senate seat, did it?

Few who study politics and government much, dismisses so cavalierly the importance of gerrymandering in the outcome of elections. Witness Sen. Greiner's victory, accomplished only by carving up the pre-existing Sen. District to bring into it Republican-voting precincts outside of Ogden City. In the last election, for example, the part of Greiner's district that still remained in Ogden voted against him. Only the added right-leaning boxes outside the city put him over the top. Or as people pointed out at the time, those who knew him best... Ogden residents... said "no."

Jason also wrote: Further, you covertly insert whackjob Buttars into a leadership position to justify your "right-wing-nut" troika of polemicals.

Buttars was chair of key committees and was counted by the Republican leadership as part of the leadership. He was stripped of one of his leadership posts only when his antics reached the point that they embarrassed even his fellow-wing nuts. Meaning they'd reached the level that would gag a maggot. You can pretend Buttars was not among the legislative leaders if it suits your argument, of course... but you will be pretending.

Moroni McConkie said...

Jason, you've (inadvertently?) flattered Curmudgeon sincerely. The characterization of the gondola as a "flatland" contraption was originally Curmudgeon's.

(Thank God it flatlined.)


Geiger, Geiger, Geiger, Geiger ...

ozboy said...

Ah but Mr. Curmudgeon, you conveniently forgot to dissect and rebut Jason's excellent expose of the real Dr. Allen!

Are you reluctant to deal with the real issue pertaining to the God Father of the Godfreyite movement and main protagonist of your beloved Flat Land Gondola?

Once again, oh great one I look up to, this leg 10 race is about integrity and who has it and who doesn't. Surely a man with your great breadth of knowledge about history and politics understands the importance of integrity in our elected officials, don't you?

Democrat shemocrat, the guys a bum, face it, you will feel better in the morning!

That's What She Said said...

Mr. Allen wants to be my representative because there are no physicians in the legislature. How dare the governor and legislature create a health care task force without a physician? With this logic we need more transportation engineers and tax attorneys elected to the legislature. Mr. Allen makes a couple of big assumptions. The first is that he will be elected. The second is that if elected, he’d be appointed to this task force.

Let’s say Mr. Allen is elected and appointed to the health care task force. What does he bring to the discussion? Does the electorate need health care reform based on the provider’s perspective or the consumer? What is Mr. Allen’s track record to date on impacting health care change? Besides using his practice’s private patient records as a political mailing list what health care initiatives has he proposed as a private citizen, physician, or even as a former legislator?

I do know what Mr. Allen’s opponent, Brent Wallis, has done for health care in Weber County. Under his leadership he has directed the training of thousands of health care professionals to meet critical shortages in this community. The next time you are at a clinic, pharmacy, lab, dentist office, or the hospital, ask the medical assistant, nursing assistant, nurse, dental assistant, phlebotomist, or pharmacy technician where they received their training. I think you will be surprised at just how many were trained at the Ogden-Weber Applied Technology College (ATC).

Beyond that, Brent Wallis has spent a lifetime ensuring that Weber County residents could receive technical education that would allow them to get good paying jobs. When companies in Weber County have access to a high skilled, technically trained workforce these companies can grow and add more employees. Job growth and economic prosperity is key to our health care needs, and is certainly a benefit for ALL taxpayers.

Brent Wallis has shown his dedication to the citizens and companies in Weber County. He has been an ardent advocate for education at all levels. He recognizes that our community benefits from a strong metropolitan university and a strong technical college. Mr. Allen misses that point all together. Brent Wallis has a record of lobbying on behalf of Weber State, the Ogden-Weber Tech College, and citizens of this community.

Both candidates use “leadership” in their campaign literature. For me, Brent Wallis is the only candidate that has demonstrated that leadership is more than just a word.

Bill C. said...

My hell Curm, bail on Allen all ready. Right now there is one, I repeat one, incumbent Democrat running for the leg. in all of northern Utah, Neil Hansen.
Your candidate, addled Eddy, who you say flies the same banner is doing all he can to unseat Neil. His money,(envision Ogden) is going to the idiot transplant g-train subordinate running against Neil. If you haven't figured it out yet, Gondolas and blood are thicker than party affiliations and massive amounts of thorazine.
Please explain your logic in light of the fact that your darling incoherent district 10 candidate in no way shares the same leanings.
Addled Eddy founded lift ogden which morphed into envision Ogden, illegally gathered campain cash and is now actively trying to remove the lone incumbent of your political party in northern Utah.
Curm, you might as well have voted for David Duke.

disgusted said...

so youd would rather have ed allen than neil hansen.

Curmudgeon said...


1. They are not in the same district so the question is a meaningless hypothetical.

2. In any case, at no time in any post on the race in Dist. 10 did I indicate a preference for Allen over Hansen. I worked for Hansen in his mayoral bid through the primary, and I've worked with him on community affairs. I'm damn glad he's in the legislature. And I'd be damn disappointed to see the seat now held by a Democratic colleague of Hansen's in the House in Dist. 10 end up in the hands of a Republican.

Curmudgeon said...


When you write, as you did, that by voting for Democrat Ed Allen in District 10 I "might as well have voted for David Duke," you leave all reason and even common sense behind. There is no point in discussing the election with someone who sees no difference between Mr. Allen and a Klansman and former member of the American Nazi Party. That kind of irrational ranting is, Bill, sad and not worthy of you.

disgusted said...

im starting to think your a wolf in sheeps clothing.
are you sure your not related. such blind faith.

Bill C. said...

Curm, my point is that addled eddy is working towards the removal of Neil from his seat. That should truely upset you. It's worse than Benedict Arnold. Curm, you know I side with your minority almost all the time, but when this dolt Allen starts helping to defeat a rep like Neil it makes me mad as hell, and very dissapointed that you could care less. Your principles seem lacking. My reference to Duke was a response to your rationale for voting non partisan back in weezeanna. I wasn't relating addled ed to the likes of Duke or Hitler, how could I error that badly, those guys despite their terrible shortcomings were smart.

Anonymous said...


Who are you supporting for State Senate?

Just wondering said...


Who are you supporting for State Senate?

Curmudgeon said...


I've preached blind faith in no candidate. If you've been following the Allen discussion, which has been going on for some months now, you have seen me stating that Allen was by no means my dream candidate for that seat. I'm considerably more liberal on many matters than he is. What I have argued, and still argue, is that he has, over a long time, some of it in the legislature, a sound Democratic record. And that, since he's running for the state legislature, not the city council, his wrong ideas about the gondola... and they are wrong... are not sufficient to trump his long Democratic record, and absolutely not sufficient, for me, to even consider helping the seat he's contesting for, which is now held by a Democrat, to go Republican.

How you derive "blind faith" on my part from that escapes me.

I also have been arguing, and still am, that party matters. A lot. In the running of any legislative body, Utah included. And that the great mass of opposition expressed here to Mr. Allen springs from his views on a municipal matter... the gondola... and, irrationally I think... from his being related, by marriage of a child, to the Mayor. There are many valid reasons to vote for or against a particular candidate. Who one of his children married is not one of them.

disgusted said...

you remind me of allen greenspan. both intellectually smart but neither one of you can admit when youre wrong.

Curmudgeon said...


Me like Alan Greenspan --- the Wall Street shill and Ayn Rand "markets are God and solve all problems rationally" extremist? Now that is insulting. My seconds shall call on yours shortly. And Bill wants to bring in David Duke to the discussion about Allen?

You are both examples, I think, of how blind and often unreasoning animosity clouds judgment.

And you've offered no reason for me to conclude that I'm wrong on this matter, other than telling me that Allen is for the gondola. I know that. I disagree with him on that. But I don't think, for a candidate for state [not city] office that trumps his being right on a variety of issues he's likely to be voting on in the legislature, nor does it trump his long Democratic voting record, in and out of office.

Bill C. said...

Curm, it was you that brought David Duke into the discussion, he never would have crossed my mind.
But now that he's in, lift ogden, founded by addled ed, used race very early in their recruitment.
One of the geigers, assuming I thought like him, told me that we needed a way to rid central Ogden of the Mexicans. That type of statement could easily come from a guy like Duke. Don't forget that at the time addled ed was the big frontman and the geigers his soldiers. You can also see in g-trains approach to the developer of the old starwars safeway/iga, that there is still an anti hispanic bias among the remnants of addled ed's lift ogden.
But the real issue is, your rational for supporting addled ed is undermined by his activity regarding Neils campain opponent. I assure you ed can't win, but he may finance the elimination of the only incumbant democrat in northern Utah. So instead of gaining anything you lose everything.

Curmudgeon said...


The candidate for the 10th District is named Allen. Not Geiger. If you really want to argue along these lines: (A) a Geiger told me Ogden needs to get rid of Mexicans downtown (B) a Geiger and Allen agree on the gondola (C) therefor, Allen must be a racist --- well, then, Bill, there's a job for you writing campaign speeches for Sara Palin.

disgusted said...

so you condone allen trying to reduce the number of democrats in office by his contributions to actions geared at trying to get hansen removed from office.
doesnt allens own actions counter your actions to increase the number of democrats in office. is this a democrat that you want in office or is allen not in fact supporting a republican by his actions.

Curmudgeon said...


Again, stop trying to put words in my mouth. I said no such thing.

Argument by creating straw men to knock down by putting words into the mouths of those you disagree with really isn't a very effective way of arguing.

disgusted said...

youve put much more effort recently into supporting ed allen than you have in supporting neil hansen.
allen is trying to remove hansen. a member of his own party.
so would you rather have allen than hansen. a net gain of zero democratic seats at the state level.
whos side is allen really on democrat or republican and what is his agenda. is he a true democrat looking to better things for his parties and only from only a state perspective if he going after hansen. he obviosly thinks he can have an effect on things at the local level that is why hes going after hansen.
again i ask are you a wolf in sheeps clothing.

Curmudgeon said...


I do not live in Neil's district. If I did, I'd be voting for him. I am in Allen's district and his name, and Wallis's will be on my ballot. Hansen's won't. There have been, you must have noticed, many attacks on Mr. Allen here at WCF over the past several months, and I've responded to them, offering reasons why I think a vote for Allen rather than Wallis would be, all things considered, better for Utah.

There have been nearly no criticisms of Neil here. So to suggest that my spending time here responding to the many attacks on Allen and my not spending similar time defending Neil, is ridiculous.

I am, furthermore, aware of no evidence that Allen is campaigning against Hansen. All I've heard on that score is Bill's guilt by association claim, and since Bill also suggested my supporting Allen is, somehow, by some tortured stretch of imaginary logic, the equivalent of voting for David Duke, I have to tell you, I'm not taking Bill's allegations very seriously on this matter.

You ask would I "rather have Allen than Hansen." Here's my answer: I want both of them to win, because that would hold two seats now held by Democrats for Democrats in the coming legislature.

disgusted said...

are you suggesting that only people in allen district are reading your posts.
neil then deserves your praise as well does he not.
as for your reasons to support allen - there weak. when you look at the mans judgement and decision making relative to local issues he does not justify anyones support. he has shown a pattern of supporting not the residents interests but rather a small close knit group made up of his family and friends of his family. with that disregard for the residents at a local level what makes you think he would be any different to those that elect him at a state position. answer is he wouldnt.
he is not worthy of anyones vote.

Bill C. said...

Oh Curm, I never concluded that voting for addled ed was akin to voting for Duke, you're putting words in my mouth. Your scenario offered 2 choices other than the one you took, I just picked one. Lester Maddux wasn't available though he more resembles ed in appearance.

disgusted said...

you state "I am, furthermore, aware of no evidence that Allen is campaigning against Hansen. All I've heard on that score is Bill's guilt by association claim"
but you yourself have said that envision ogden is just the lift ogden group but now with adult supervision. lift ogden was founded by ed allen. envision ogden is contibuting $2000 to neil hansens opponent.
how can you not connect the dots. ed allen is working against his own party he is working against neil hansen he is working against the people of ogden and he is working against the very thing you are trying to accomplish. and yet still you side with him.
when will you realize that ed allen is not the right candidate for the people of ogden or the democratic state office.

Curmudgeon said...


We've about pounded this one into the ground, I think, but I'll make one more attempt: Rep. Hansen has not been attacked here on WCF. Mr. Allen has. Since I want both of them elected, I've responded to the attacks on Allen here. There have been no attacks on Hansen to respond to. Clear?

And I know of no evidence that Allen is working against Hansen. All I've seen, and apparently all you have, is Bill's guilt by association double bank shot. [Allen formed LO five years ago. Envision has become the new downtown booster org, replacing LO. Envision gave money to Peterson. Therefor, Allen is working against Hansen. That's a stretch not far from the famous "Rosemary Stretch" of Nixon tape fame.]

The only place Democrats should be opposing Democrats is in primaries. However much you want to string suppositions together to reach a conclusion you find politically useful, this card carrying liberal is a little more conservative about such matters. I prefer evidence to proceed conclusions, not speculations and suppositions.

Moving on to other topics now, I think.

disgusted said...

your pious attitude only serves to show your bias and stengthen the points of those that have tried to dialog with you and when you cant or arent winning the discussion you want to move on.
ok curm take your ball and go play on another court or in this case another article on the blog.

just before i hit the sent button on my post i reviewed some of the newer articles and low and behold you haven't let it go youve just moved up to a newer article where this string of logic that you have lost in argument on in this article are not present the the newer posts. you must like politics.

dan s. said...

just wondering,

Sorry about the very late response. I don't know a lot about either of the State Senate candidates in my district (19), so I wouldn't feel comfortable writing a detailed endorsement. However, based on party affiliation and the Sierra Club's endorsement, I'll vote for Bill Hansen.

Another one of rudi's personalities said...

Dan Schroeder isn't a registered Democrat.

Enough said.

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