Wednesday, March 03, 2010

More Blowback On the Ogden City Streetcar Situation

No more ineffective griping, pleeeze.
We'd like to point our readers to a good follow-up blog article article on the heels of yesterday's WCF story, in which we reported that the ever-visionary Boss Godfrey received a fairly cool reception at the WACOG meeting on Monday, regarding his possibly loopy "downtown Ogden [Diesel powered] Trolley loop, wherein the little shite warned the possibly "mostly non-visionary" WACOG representatives that he'd be putting the arm on them later, in the event that Godfrey's personal Washington lobbyist might score federal "economic stimulus money,as "Ogden City's, ie, "might get lucky with the Obama administration paid whore"

OK, Enough of your blogmeister's general griping. Here's link to a great blog article which we'd like to feature this afternoon:
Trolley Tussle Threatens Transoportation
Please read this article and then write these wise words down, Ogden People, just so you don't forget it:

Obviously, there has to be money in place to fund both projects. It appears, given the scarcity of resources available, that this debate may come down deciding which project is more important. If there is a way to make the Downtown Circulator work AND still build the WSU-Downtown line, then everyone wins. However, if it comes down to making the hard choice, it may be wiser to continue pressing forward with the WSU-Downtown line given the time and energy already spent on bringing it to fruition. It would be unfortunate to have recent efforts made to fund the Downtown Circulator sabotage of the promised WSU public transportati[o]n line. [sic]
That's it for now, gentle readers.

We couldn't have said it better ourself ourselves.

Time's now to launch your ever-wise WCF comments, people.

What ever you do... please don't let the cat get "yer' tongues


I'm in Awe said...

I'm in awe Rudi. Your cranky journalist skills improve every day.

So how long has it been, Rudi, since you've known consciously that you're actually channeling Hunter S. Thompsen?

Moroni McConkie said...

Quite apart from the sturm-und-drang surrounding competing visions for Ogden trolley routes, I hope folks realize that UTA's service between downtown and WSU, via 25th Street, is already excellent.

For those who would rather not hunt and pay for parking, hop aboard!

Curmudgeon said...


And it's being used. I caught the 603 at 30th and Harrison down to the Library this AM. About eight folks on the bus when I boarded, and we picked up and dropped off along the route. At about 10:35 I caught it going back. I got the last seat in a row with no one in it. Bus about 2/3 full. Mid morning. I rode it to WSU, and we picked up and dropped off all along the route. About half got off at WSU; rest stayed on. I'll be on the bus twice more before the day is done [WSU to Smiths, Smiths to Harrison and 36th, then walk home after GFC].

Really is good service on that route. But it may not last. UTA told me at one of the public sessions it held ostensibly to seek public input on alternate trolley routes last year --- you know, the one where UTA asked people to put stickers on maps to indicate where they wanted the trolley to go, and then UTA ignored the largest collection of stickers on the 25th St/Harrison route for the Washington/36th route that had few stickers --- anyway, UTA told me that if the trolley went down Washington to 36th, service on the 603 route would be cut in half.

hogwash said...

We do not need trains, trolleys and street cars in Ogden Utah. We had them once and got rid of them. Just because Godfrey had a dream doesn't mean we need them. Buses work just fine for a city of 80,000 people. What we need is infrastuture replacement and roads, you know important things that ALL people will use. Need a ride, get on the bus, problem solved. Dream on Mayor.

Curmudgeon said...

For a city of 80K, maybe not. But transit planning, to be effective, looks ahead, and the projections are for significant population growth all along the Wasatch front, including here, over the next two decades. Good planning involves building in anticipation of need, not waiting until gridlock happens and then building. It's much more expensive that way as well. [That's why UTA sank millions into acquiring a route for Legacy Highway extension now while the land, or most of it, is not built on, since acquiring it six or ten years from now when it is built over with subdivisions would be far far more expensive.]

And then there's the demonstrated development impact of street car lines in modern cities. They bring significant investment along the lines --- residential and business investment. This is not conjecture. It's established by example after example in city after city, over the last decade.

The problem with bus lines with respect to drawing route-side investment is that they can, and do, move. I have a colleague who bought a house in Ogden where she did in part because it was close to a bus stop and she would be able to ride the bus to and from work and not have to drive. Then UTA eliminated the route and she's been driving to/from work ever since.

The recent UTA announced cancellations of some express routes and the overhall [meaning changing] of several routes last year illustrate the same point as well. But tracks do not move, and so people are more willing [because there's less risk] to sink investment capital into trackside business and residential development than in bus route side projects.

If you scan the real estate ads and apartment / condo ads for SLC, you'll notice many advertise, prominently, that the property on offer is "two blocks from TRAX station," etc. I don't recall any adds saying "two blocks from a bus stop."

If an Ogden street car makes sense, it does so as an investment in the future of Ogden, not as a system that will only serve immediate transit needs.

Da Riddler said...

Thanks for your expertice and analysis on transportation protocol and procedures. As a person that has built all forms of these for 40 years, I find it quite boring to hear your solutions. Let me give you something you should consider, would you rather have a drink of water when thirsty or have a ride to college although you have finished college years ago?

Just Sayin' said...

Thanks but no thanks, Riddler. Frankly I'd prefer a shot or two of Jose Cuervo to either of your two narrow suggested choices.

Just sayin'

Dan S. said...


Without a better transit system, Ogden will remain a city of 80,000 and all the county's growth will occur around the edges, replacing the farms with Ivory Homes and forcing everyone to drive enormous distances to get to jobs and schools and services.

With a better transit system, central Ogden can grow. Perhaps sprawl will eventually wipe out the farms anyway, but it'll take longer and at least the people who want to be less car-dependent will have that choice.

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