Wednesday, June 09, 2010

Standard-Examiner: Ogden Looks at Salary Options

As we said before, Ogden City Council, don't sell yourselves short

We just perused Scott Schwebke's morning article wherein he reports on the treatment of the major item on last night's city council calender, the Ogden City payroll, which item has now been continued to June 22 , for a full public hearing:
Ogden looks at salary options
Strangely, somebody (The administration do ya think?) proposes that the Ogden City Mayor's salary should be increased increased by $28,000, which would make the Mayor's base salary ($108,857) slightly higher than the median mayoral salary amongst all five Utah Cities which are organized under Utah Mayor-Council Form of government.

Weirdly though, the City Council's proposed base salary increases would fall about $2,000 short of even the rock bottom of Utah Mayor-Council Form Of Government cities.

Check out our salary data reference point:
Comparable Salaries of Elected Officials in Utah Mayor-Council Form of Government Cities
We completely agree with Dorrene Jeske's take on this! Elective officer salaries in Ogden City should emulate Murray City, a city that's comparable in population and other key factors:

Dan Snarr - Mayor - $88,192
Jeff Dredge - Council Person - $13,754
Darren V. Stam - Council Person - $13,754
Jim Brass - Council Person - Not available
Jared A. Shaver - Council Person - $13,754
Krista Dunn - Council Person - $13,754
As we said before, Ogden City Council, don't sell yourselves short.


OneWhoKnows said...

Seems to me that any Ogden City employee making more than $75 grand a year should have their wages frozen. With their benefit package of 25 to 35 percent presently, that's well over $100 grand and today, that's not bad. The employees making less than that amount should be getting much more than the pitance of 2% that is being suggested. The idea of the Mayor or his cronies approving and giving more than the allowed amount has the shit factor of favortism written all over it. Basically that's what the little weiner is doing now, only illegally. Just another lousy idea from the ninth floor on the backs of the real people that earn and deserve it. I suppose Patterson is worth $125K....SHIT !

Fireman Joe said...

Murray firefighter $35,381-58,344

Ogden firefighter $34,038-46,865

Are we including everyone or just administration?

When the city did it's last comparison the pay scale was 9% below average for entry level and 13.6% below top step. In the last 10 years OFD has had more than 70 people leave the department.

Poole said...

I cant believe that anyone thinks it takes more skill, courage, time, or energy to be a mayor, rather than a firefighter. Sad commentary on the state of our world, when people like the Roosters owners actually think we should raise the mayors salary to attract top talent, while people leave teaching and firefighting jobs because Ogden values management more than Critical Workers. Note to people: the city would "run" itself fine with a volunteer mayor. Just like cities run themselves fine with a volunteer fire department. Management way overvalues themselves.

he aint worth that much said...

Oh yes, and they report the Mayors salary with out including benefits, but when they quote worker bees salaries benefits are included every time to make it look as though they are living high on the hog from the taxpayers. Hypocrital schmucks.

Curmudgeon said...

Sorry, Poole, but you're wrong on this. It does take time, skill, energy, and good judgment to run a city, just as it takes all those to be a good fireman, or policeman. The skills involved are different, but you're wrong to assume a city like Ogden could "run itself" just fine with volunteer mayors just as small towns get by with volunteer fire departments.

Sorry, Poole, but if my house catches on fire, I want trained professional firefighters on the way and I want them fast. And a good fire department lowers home insurance costs significantly.

Similarly, it takes considerable skill at management, and sound judgment to run a city the size of Ogden, and manage a budget the size of Ogden's. We'd probably agree that Hizzonah is not doing that job particularly well, but that's because he has proven to lack good management skills and sound business judgment. That doesn't mean those qualities are unimportant in a mayor. It just means he hasn't shown that he possesses them much.

A good city manager with good business sense is a real asset to any city. I wouldn't disparage the skills needed to be a good one anymore than I'd disparage the skills needed to be a good fireman.

Danny said...

Curm, you may have misspoken, but you are wrong.

The mayor does not "run" the city as you say.

He is supposed to "run" the city government, which hopefully is a very small part of the city comprising only needed public services.

The idea that the mayor and city council "run" the city is the first thing that has to go.

The idea that the city should be entangled in business the way it is in Ogden is the second thing that should go.

Go Lakers! said...

When the revolution comes, self-important managers will be the second in line with their backs against the wall. Second, right after the politicians who supported the.

Curmudgeon said...

Comment bumped to Front Page

Curmudgeon said...


You're playing word games. The Mayor and Council let contracts, decide on what contracts shall be let, and who shall get them for construction of city projects, buildings, for maintenance, for delivering some city services. They set policy, decide in the end zoning questions. deal with business regulations, choose the heads of the various departments that conduct the city's business day by day [police chief, etc.] and much else besides. The jobs --- mayor and council member --- are important to the welfare of the city, and it requires skill, good judgment, much time, and a firm commitment to ethical conduct to do them both properly and well.

Dorrene Jeske said...

Danny said…. “The idea that the mayor and city council "run" the city is the first thing that has to go.” Danny is absolutely right! There are numerous committees with wonderful, caring individuals who DONATE their time to make Ogden the fun and outstanding community that it is and the winner of many awards. It is these committees who really run the city. The city council writes and approves ordinances (laws) that provide guidance for the various city departments and the police so that we have a safe and orderly city and the mayor is responsible for providing personnel, equipment, and operating procedures that follow the policies and ordinances set forth by the council. It is really the citizens and citizen committees that add the color, flavor and characteristics that make the city. As much as the Mayor wants Ogden to be the “Outdoor Sports Mecca,” it wouldn’t happen without the backing and support of citizen groups.

Also, it is the employees of Ogden who deal with the public every day that makes Ogden a nice place to live. I’ve heard stories that it is hard to get anything done in Ogden, so I’m sure that someone will comment on the previous statement, but that isn’t necessarily the employees’ fault. Often they are only following the instructions of their supervisor. As a former council member, I can tell you that it is very difficult to obtain information or action if the Mayor has said not to cooperate. If you are in his good graces, he will open all kinds of doors for you.

We have often heard the adage, “If you don’t respect yourself, nobody else will.” My advice to the council is to listen to it – your time is just as important as the Mayor’s or any of the directors. Yes, you are providing a service to the community, but it is an IMPORTANT service, and you should be compensated for your time and make it worth while for all the sacrifices you make. You are giving up valuable time with your family and grandchildren, and opportunities that you may not have again. I had one little grandson ask me after I was on the council awhile, “Grandma, why did you take a job?” He missed his grandma. Now, almost five years later, he is twelve years old and starting Jr. High next August. I’m sure I missed some important “teaching” and memory-making moments.

I strongly feel that the part of the pay ordinance that allows those who have reached the top of their pay ladder to receive “bonuses” needs to eliminated. OneWhoKnows posted, “The idea of the Mayor or his cronies approving and giving more than the allowed amount has the shit factor of favoritism written all over it.” That is exactly what I feared when I was on the negotiating committee and the Mayor forced the “Pay for Performance” onto the employees. It was his way of getting around the rule that kept them from getting a salary increase.

Even if the Mayor’s “A-Team” received 2%, that’s an increase of $2,170. plus their expense accounts (and some are double or triple dippers) while an average employee might receive as much as $1,000. I ask, who needs the $2,170. more? My solution is to put all the “Pay for Performance” money into one pot, and pay all the employees the same amount – a flat $2,000. across the board. That is the only fair way, and I believe that the morale of the city employees would increase considerably. The directors are reasonable and decent people, I think that they would come to that same conclusion (after the shock wore off). When some of the A-team can become real estate developers after leaving city employment (there is still one on the city payroll), it really makes one wonder about the ethics of the administration.

that what im talking about said...

I just heard that if N Hansen should run next year, that he would be willing to be mayor for only half of what the mayor makes now. Throw Gadfrey out and put Hansen in.

Curmudgeon said...

That What:

Deciding who should be mayor by taking the lowest bid is not a good idea. Support someone because you think he or she will do the best job as mayor, not because he or she promises to take the lowest pay.

Alexander said...

Raises should not even be discussed. I have hard time sympathizing w/ anyone complaining about not getting a wage increase. If you have a job consider yourself lucky and be happy and be careful with your money. Government shouldn't be spending money on employee raises while the rest of the country is still in a midst of a major recession with no end in sight.

Plenty said...


4inchstelletos said...

"that what im talking about said...

I just heard that if N Hansen should run next year, that he would be willing to be mayor for only half of what the mayor makes now. Throw Gadfrey out and put Hansen in."

Again, I ask, does anyone out there know or understand what I posted on a related thread about city ordinances and payrates?

It is my understanding (I'm open to correction if I'm wrong), that should council pass an ordinance to increase pay or salaries for elected (or appointed?) officials, it makes no-never-mind if that employee or official wants the dough or not. They will get it. So they can say they don't want it to look good, I suppose. But they would still get it.
I suppose they can donate half their $102k paycheck to a charity. That would be very generous. But the tax writeoff would still be theirs to claim. Not the taxpayers.
So if this payrate for the mayoral position is approved by council as (as an ordinance?) then I would suggest the best thing we Ogdenites can do is what Curm has said. Vote for the person capable of being the one with the best management and business skills. That which the current admin has not exactly proven to me to have.
If we are going to be paying that much for a mayor, at least make sure it is a person worthy of the pay.

Brett said...


What a great idea! Let's push it! We can't do any worse!

I think that you're right about any Ogden City employee being paid no matter what. It's just Godfrey trying to make himself look good. I'm sure he's well aware that he will get his salary -- maybe if we get the word out that it's a farce, he will look like the goof-ball that he is.

pigs at a trough said...

Hell, I wish I could get a 30% raise.

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