Monday, August 30, 2010

Speaking of Mindless Obama Bashing

Presenting people with facts won't quell the cries of presidential illegitimacy, research suggests

By Ozboy

And speaking of mindless Obama bashing, there is an excellent article on the phenom on CNN entitled:
"Why Obama is not first 'imposter' president and won't be the last"
One of several great money quotes:
Presenting people with facts won't quell the cries of presidential illegitimacy, research suggests.
A series of studies conducted at the University of Michigan in 2006 showed that political partisans, when exposed to facts that corrected their assumptions, rarely changed their minds. They actually held even tighter to their assumptions.
Another wise sage (can’t quite remember who) said it this way:
People are drawn to the echo chamber, and they want to have their opinions validated more often than they want to have their opinions challenged.


RudiZink said...


Read what the very savvy "Laytonian," a very savvy regular SE commentator has to say about this:

Laytonian 08/26/2010 12:00 PM SE comment

Gil said...

These "birthers" are nutz!

Here's the story from

Obama Birth Certificate

Glen B. said...

Well Gil, it looks like you have been snookered.

Every one knows that Snopes has absolutely no credibility at all, just as every one with half a brain knows that Hussien Muhammed Obama is a dedicated Muslim terrorist who was born in Iran and is out to destroy America from within.

If this is not true, then it damn well ought to be!

Elder Benson said...

Glenn Beck: False prophet:

Gleen Beck is a False Propet

Danny said...

My comment is, "who cares"?

Obama is legally prez. If not, they'd be in court. They aren't. So yahoos argue about it. Yahoos argue about lots of things. None of it is interesting.

Glenn Beck is an entertainer. He does that rather well, I'd say.

The issue is the emphasis by Obama on "helping", "fixing", "assisting", etc.

The only thing that particular incompetent, together with his band of nuts, can do, to accomplish those goals, it get out of the way.

To the extent they continue to get involved, and thereby impress their incompetence on the country, we will continue to suffer.

But they will continue to try. They are, after all, fools. We can expect nothing else.

That's the issue.

Get real , Dummie said...

"Every one knows that Snopes has absolutely no credibility at all..."

Let me take a wild guess... you're a "birther," right?

Snopes is one of the BS revealers of (your) BS on the web, whether you like it or not, eh, "Glen B.?"

Danny said...

It's his policies that suck, not his place of birth . . .

Subsidizing Unemployment

RudiZink said...

"It's his policies that suck, not his place of birth . . ."

Exactly right, Danny.

Is it possible that we can divert these morons from the idiotic side issues, and get the American discussion back on track?

Kinda hard to do when you have the likes of the idiots Hannity, Beck and O'Reilley diverting the discussion 24/7 from the REAL issues.

G.Beck said...


"idiots Hannity, Beck and O'Reilley"

Really? tell that to their accountants, bankers, Mercedes Dealers, realtors, ex wifes, etc.

Newt said...

Yeah, Rudi's right! We need to be talking about the real issues! And everyone knows the most important real issue facing America today is whether we should let Muslims build a mosque two blocks from Ground Zero.

Danny said...

That's why I've concluded we need leaders who will direct the debate.

The public tends to run in all directions at once, while radio talk hosts entertain, using politics as fodder.

I'm not sure who those leaders are. I can't think of anybody out there. I'm hopeful of Mike Lee, but he may disappoint. We'll see.

RudiZink said...

Very funny, Newt. Hardy Har-Har.

RudiZink said...

"I'm hopeful of Mike Lee, but he may disappoint. "

Expect to be disappointed, Danny. Mike Lee is just another corporo-fascist slut, pandering to his rube base.

watching the idocy unfold said...

Hay waittaminute Rudi! Have you seen this Mike Lee campaign video?

Unto This Very Purpose - Mike Lee For Senate 2010

I can definitely see why FAITHFUL UTAH MORMONS like Danny would love this guy Lee.

Don't forget the "White Horse Prophesy."

Viktor said...

Actually I think we should all be very aware of the White Horse's Ass Prophesy as put forth by our senior GOP Legislative leaders.

googlegirl said...

Mike Lee files his financial disclosure!

Ray said...

G-girl: Too funny...

Reptile said...

I hate mammals.

Patches said...

Great debate.

We have a half white and half black, part Keyenian part Hawaiian, part American part Indonesian, part Christian part Muslim, with no experience except for being a rabble rouser as a Communtiy Organizer.

No wonder his policies are so well thought through and aimed over the long run. No wonder why no one understands what he does nor why. He is so superior and intelligent even the MSM can not keep up with his brilliance. No wonder why sixty to eighty percent of Americans just want him to go back where ever he truly came from and never be heard from again.

Those dirty bigoted rubes! We on the left know best, we are all omnipotent and all knowing (the Great OZ behind the curtains) and have complete superiority over these knuckle dragging right wing nut jobs like the entertainers on Fox News.

So got an idea...let's all just go vote our consciences come November.
And the following November too.

ozboy said...


Your illogical rant is full of lies and distortions and is just about as stupid as you are. Just about, but not quite. Crawl back into your smug little hole, or better yet go back to Arkansas where your idiocy is appreciated.

On your best day in your whole miserable life you wouldn't measure up to a pimple on Obama's ass.

Think for yourself said...

Good article in the NY Times, billionaires are bankrolling the TeaBaggers. Rupert Murdock and the Kohn brothers, behind closed doors and in secret, avowed John Birchers.

ozboy said...

If there is one thing that these billionaire right wingers know how to do it is to play the suckers like a fine violin! It is amazing how otherwise normal people will subscribe to and get all worked up over issues promoted by these fat cats. Issues that are really totally against their own long term interests. Sadly most people who buy into things like the John Birch Society, or their modern day equivalent, the tin hat tea party crowd, simply do not know they are being played for suckers.

It is pretty wild what a few billion spent in ads and PR will convince the average American to think.

Think for yourself said...

Another article where the Koch brothers are Libertarians and donated over $100M to right wing causes. Waging war against Obama for lower corporate taxes.

Covert Operations
(The billionaire brothers who are waging a war against Obama)

Billy Jack said...

Gee-Zust! So much gripping over things, people. Is today any different than yesterday, except now the Dems are in power nad yesterday the Reps had the chair? You hear two versions of the same stroy from two people of different political persuasions, both of whom are artful speakers and seen to make sense, yet are usually miles apart.

Obama comes from a Chicago political perspective, you know, the John Daley kind of politics, plus a black perspective that, to me, is tainted because of what he, as a black man, went through. Why would he change his position now, simply because he's President. He'll always look at things through his dark glasses, just as the blacks did in the OJ case and the Rodney King debacle. Add in Obama's liberal education from Harvard, his wife who is really no friend of White America ("first time" she was ever proud to have been an American was when her husband won some state during the primaries) and it's easy to see what we're facing. He's a Socialist and wants this "Change you can believe in" bullshit activated to make us more in line with Europe, a continent still struggling with coming out of the Dark Ages (just take a look at that bunch over there--without us, in the 40's, they all would be National Socialists). They don't want us now, but if the Bosche every comes back, the phones in the Pentagone will ring.

Obama has taken over healthcare, the car industry, the banking industry, and trying to corral Wall Street. Hell, I'd rather have Gordon Gecco run the shop than Biden and that pack of fools.

Sure, the Right can spend some money on getting out the message of the extreme element, but I believe it would be better to go back a few years and maintain that status than move forward into Obamaland which emulates the socialism of Greece, France, etc.

I wonder why, when somebody has a REALLY sick relative, they bring them here, to the good old USA, than to Seville, Lisbon, or Liverpool?

As for the mosque and that bunch of fanatics, let 'em get it half way built then shoot a guided missle into it and take out the imam and they rest of those "bridge building" clowns who take advantage of our system and espouse their anti-American propaganda under the guise of worship and religion.

This ain't rocket science, folks, it's bullshit at the highest level and I'm afraind we're being suckered into it by a well oiled machine that is absolutely no different than the machine Ozboy talks about. The names are just spelled differently, that's all.

Sheriff Cole said...


Stick to trying out for B movies, your complete ignorance is showing and you are making even a bigger fool of yourself than you did during your 15 minutes of fame 40 years ago.

Kerrystarr2000 said...

Billy Jack

Great post. But rest assured you will hear from the saul alinsky insult the messenger crowd.

Sally Forth said...


I don't think it is a case of attacking the messenger in this instance as much as it is ridiculing the moron who created the message. Billy Jack's little attempt at intelligence is a weak and vacuous message by any measure.

ozboy said...

Billy Jack

I think perhaps you are confusing the real world for one of your, movie scripts.

Obama did not come out of the classic Richard Daley political machine. (It is Richard, not John Daley by the way. Mr. Obama rose politically in Chicago through his own wits and efforts, not the Daley machine who never were his backers or friends.

I'm not sure just what point you are trying to make with the "black perspective" thing. Do you think he should some how have a "white perspective"?

As for your assertions that he is a "socialist" and trying to remake America into some sort of European model - well I really don't see any evidence beyond the ravings of the tin hat tea party crowd for that. You must remember he inherited a nation and economy in free fall and every thing he has done so far is directed to saving the sinking ship.

As far as Europe still struggling with coming out of the dark ages, well that is actually pretty silly given the real history of Europe starting with the age of enlightenment. Most of the American civilization is based on our European background and traditions. Perhaps if you read as much history as you apparently do movie fiction you would see that this is just simply not true.

As to Obama taking over health care, the car, and banking industries and his closing in on Wall street - well there again I don't think you have a very firm grasp on just what has been going on there. There is a big difference between "taking over" and bailing out. Had he not bailed out the car industry they would have failed which would have created a domino effect and plunged the economy into total depression. By the way, it was Bush who initiated the bank bail outs before he left office.

On the Wall street front, once again he actually bailed them out with loans, "didn't take them over", and it was the "Gordon Gecko" types that you speak so fondly of that created the mess with their unbridled greed and corruption. Do you really wish they would return? There again I think your fascination with the make belief world of the movies is perhaps clouding your judgement.

Your fear of socialism is also based on make belief. America is already socialist to a certain extent. All the institutions that make the country great are "socialist". The military, the police, the education system, SOCIAL security, etc, etc. All great empires in history were "socialist" in one way or another. That is the way they became great to begin with - marshaling the strength of the masses to support common causes and national goals.

Your take on "bringing sick relatives to the US" is another myth. It happens once in awhile with leaders and rich citizens of third world countries, but not on any large scale. The fact is that health care in the US is pretty far down the list when compared with a lot of countries. We even are behind some third world countries in some measures. The citizens of Cuba have better health care than the average American for instance. Most rich people in the middle east actually go to England for medical care. We do however have the most expensive in the world!

The shooting a missile into the Mosque line would sell some movie tickets perhaps, but do your really see that as a solution out side of a Billy Jack movie? Wouldn't that more or less put the US on the same level as the terrorists who we so despise.

Perhaps the stuff you write about is really a more fitting in the movie script view you have of the real world? That wouldn't make you a bad guy as they say, heck even President Bobby Reagan (or was it Ronnie) often confused the real world with one of his movie roles!

Dave said...

I believe the real risk to America comes from within and is exemplified by the above post by "Billy Jack". He demonstrates a profound ignorance of what is going on in the world. His perception of history and his world view are apparently formed by television and movies and not by actual events. Unfortunately this is all too common in America today as our population has been dumbed down by a failing educational system and the ever pervasive mass media who play to the lowest common denominator. This also explains the popularity of the various shock jocks who target this mass ignorance with their constant barrage of misleading information and hateful rants on the President and Congress.

Billy Jack said...

Ozboy and others--

I meant JOHN DALEY, not Richard:

John P. Daley (born December 5, 1946) is the 11th Ward Democratic Committeeman in Chicago, Illinois, a member of the Cook County Board of Commissioners (11th District), and the Chair of the Cook County Board Audit and Finance Committee. He has previously served in both the Illinois State Senate and the Illinois House of Representatives, as well as being employed as a school teacher. He is the son of former Chicago Mayor Richard J. Daley and brother of current Mayor Richard M. Daley, as well as William M. Daley. Unlike his brothers, he continues to live in the neighborhood the family was raised in.

Daley is also an insurance broker who earns several hundred thousand dollars a year in this second job. In 2005, the City of Chicago endured a hired truck corruption scandal involving bribe money. The case involved a federal investigation and criminal charges to Daley associates.

Maybe you should read up on Chicago politics just a little yourself.

So, next time you're sick, go to Cuba. Bettcha don't and it's ridiculous to say the Cuban helath system is better than ours. There's this golfer, Ernie Ells, who moved from South Africa and England to Florida so his boy could take advantage of American health care, not British or French. He's one but many.

If you can't see that Obama is a Socialist, then I pity you and your political incorporation. And he does approach issuess from a black perspective, not an American perspective. Why wouldn't he? He's a black president, not a president who'se black. Remember the police in New England and the Agricultural lady....both received Obama comments that were later retracted.

Immigration, the auto industry, the wars, the spending, the list goes on. It's obvious you are a Democrat or a left wing liberal, for you still put the blame on Bush instead of going back to Bubba, a guy who spent the best part of his last term jousting with the Lewinsky thing instead of doing a presidential job that he COULD have done had he not been immersed in that. The troubled started there. Wasn't he responsible for letting Osama Bin Laden off the hook a couple of times?

Besides, isn't politics mostly show business anyway? Billy Jack is right on, dude!

Monotreme said...

@Billy Jack,

"Data" is not the plural of "anecdote".

I've worked in health care for over 30 years. You don't know what you're talking about.

Ernie Els, one of the richest men in the world, can get quality health care in America. Wow. There's a news flash.

Gloria said...

My first reaction to the "Billy Jack" post and the subsequent comments attacking it was - lighten up guys, Billy's post was a parody for no one could write something that stupid on the WCF.

However, the subsequent "Billy" post proved me wrong! The guy did some pretty fast digging to cover the "John Daley" thing and came up with one of the side characters in this crooked family.
(Nice save actually!)

The rest of the 2nd "Billy"post just more or less confirms what the other posters said about "Billy" - he is a real dunce who forms his world view based on fiction from the movies. They do walk amongst us!

Marv said...

Not only is "Billy Jack" clueless, but he is also a plagiarist and a lazy one at that. Gloria gives him way to much credit with the "nice save" remark.

Billy went to the first Wikipedia entry he could find on the net and then lifted it verbatim to cover his earlier mistake on the Richard Daley political machine confusion!

I add my voice to those who think he is a dolt!

The following is the Wiki entry. Compare it to that which Billy, by virtue of printing it un-credited and without quotation marks, represented it as his own writing, it matches word for word.
Some brilliant researcher!

"John P. Daley (born December 5, 1946) is the 11th Ward Democratic Committeeman in Chicago, Illinois, a member of the Cook County Board of Commissioners (11th District), and the Chair of the Cook County Board Audit and Finance Committee. He has previously served in both the Illinois State Senate and the Illinois House of Representatives, as well as being employed as a school teacher. He is the son of former Chicago Mayor Richard J. Daley and brother of current Mayor Richard M. Daley, as well as William M. Daley. Unlike his brothers, he continues to live in the neighborhood the family was raised in.

"Daley is also an insurance broker who earns several hundred thousand dollars a year in this second job. In 2005, the City of Chicago endured a hired truck corruption scandal involving bribe money. The case involved a federal investigation and criminal charges to Daley associates......."

blackrulon said...

Would someone kindly explain to me the difference between having "a black perspective" as opposed to having "a white perspective"? I would also like to understand how "Utah values differ from "Idaho values" or Wisconsin values" or "name a state values"?

GoggleBoy said...

"Billy Jack"

For your information the following is the last (2000) rankings of the world health care systems. (Sorry Oz, but Cuba ranked a couple of places after the US, I think it was #39 and the US was #37)

A little googling, which I understand you are expert at, will show similar results depending on the criteria one uses.

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America

Billy Jack said...

Yeah, the next time I need a heart transplant, I think I'll go to Malta. Maybe Michael Douglas will head to Denmark or Costa Rica for his cancer treatment, or Iceland or Greece.

The John Daley thing was a pretty good save, if a save was the intent. My original thought was that John, a relative of Richard, was a block organizer, like Obama, and they both came from the Daley machine. Just comparing apples to apples and you have my sincer apology for my failure to put in quote marks and footnotes (I thought this was a blog, not a high school term paper). I certainly did not mean for it to represent my own writing. And I'm really thrilled that you too, Marv, can use Wikipedia. It appears that you were in a really frantic desperation to show me to be a plagarist. You're a real Sherlock holmes, aren't ya?

Monotreme, he of 30 years in healthcare, I think you either missed the point or came in way to late with your observation. We all know that Ernie is rich and can afford the BEST healthcare in the world. I believe that THAT was my point, giving an example to Ozgood that when the chips are down, American healthcare is what they all want. Granted, now that we have HMOs and the like, and the cost for said healthcare is a problem for some, we have a speed bump to get over. But I doubt it's the way Obama is attempting. Who the hell will pay for it in 4 years? You, me, and our heirs, that's who. It's a problem of economics, not medicine. Our dollars are now going to cover ER expenses for illegals, etc., with no relief in sight.

What we need are more guys like Sheriff Arpaio. Maybe Blackrulon can grasp an "Arizona perspective," as that state is flooded with the illegal immigrant problem whereas Minnesota may not be. Therefore, the states probably have a different perspective on this sort of thing. Also, I'm sure Obama looks at issues from a "black perspective," a frame of reference that takes in prejudice sentiments, etc. that he faced growing up black and which now colors the way he approaches certain social issues that should be faced objectively, not with the insertion of colored bias. No racial intent here, just reality so Blackrulon can relax.

Dave, your liberal is showing. Everything I've said comes from events, not movie scripts, but it would make a pretty good flick, wouldn't it. Nobody would believe it though--jihad against all Americans, just because we're American; a motor boat blowing a hole in the USS Cole and killing over 150 sailors; the falling of the WTC by hijacked American passenger planes; Presidents doing interns in the oval office and arguing over the definition of the word "is" and "sex" while the leader of Al Quaeda roams about freely; thousands of illegals loose on the streets and being given more rights that the citizens; a President having a "beer summit" over the mistaken and pre-mature remarks of his own; the economic collapse and bailout and the governmental attempts to take over various big business and healthcare because the government can do a better job; Boxer, Pelosi, et al running amuck on the Hill. And when someone talks in this vein it becomes a movie script, not reality. It doesn't take much to put a burr under your collective saddles, does it?

Monotreme said...

@Billy Jack,

I understood your point perfectly. Mine is that there are 300 million Americans who cannot get adequate health care. The fact that one South African can buy his way into this country for high-quality health care is unsurprising to me.

The only thing that surprises me is that you don't mind rich South African immigrants as medical tourists, but you're incensed about (alleged) poor Mexican immigrants looking for the best possible situation for their families.

Marion said...

To all of you who have taken exception to Billy Jack's moronic ramblings I say - Don't you know it is a fools game to debate with a fool? That is especially true with a lazy plagiarist with access to the internet like Billy. They will continue to come back at you, as Billy has proven here, with endless non-sense they dredge up on the net, talking points from their favorite talking heads or meaningless smoke screens. Like Billy, they will not directly address any issue nor provide any meaningful and honest rebuttals to anything presented, but instead merely fall back to their original banalities.
The best way to deal with this kind of dimwit is to simply ignore them. Anything else only spurs them on. If they were able to intelligently think about and respond to what you write they wouldn't be fools, but they can't so they are.

Billy Jack said...

Marion, the moronic. There, I plagarized that. Guess you missed the part above where I explained to Marv that I "forgot" the quotation marks. You know, Merion, you just have to read the whole thing, not just the part that suits you. Your comments above tell me you hold yourself in high esteem and position. They also tell me that you're full of it because you rose to comment on my "foolishness." You should have let it go if you really feel the way you do.

And Monotreme, I'm sure Ells is not the only medical tourist around. His is but one of many cases where foreigners come to the USA for the best medical treatment money can buy. I'm not against a poor Mexican family seeking a better way of life, but as Dennis Miller says, "Sign the register book on the way in."

Marion said...

See what I mean!

Even while trying to sound intelligent poor dumb Billy resorts to quoting a TV comedian!

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