Sunday, February 22, 2009

Big Mouth Buttars Redux

More media blowback against another Utah politician whose word turns out to be worthless

By Curmudgeon

Picking up where we left off yesterday on the Buttars matter, there is a sound editorial in the Standard-Examiner this morning. The editorial argues that while Buttars should be relegated to the back benches in the Senate and lose his leadership posts, it's up to the voters to remove him and no one else. [Of course, if Buttars had any sense of decency, he'd resign. But awaiting decency from Utah Republican legislators is often a long and wearying business.]

There is also a very interesting story in the Salt Lake Tribune this morning , reporting that Buttars lost his committee chairmanship not for what he said, but because he broke his promise to the Senate Republican leadership not to be a leading spokesman in the Senate on gay rights issues. From the story:

Senate leaders disciplined Sen. Chris Buttars, R-West Jordan, not for anti-gay comments he made in a recent interview, but because he violated a deal with leadership that he not talk about gay issues, a senator said Saturday.
"Most of what Senator Buttars said, I agree with," Sen. Howard Stephenson, R-Draper, said in a weekly Red Meat Radio program he hosts on K-TALK. "We as a Senate caucus had an agreement that because Sen. Buttars had become such a lightning rod on this issue, he would not be the spokesman on this issue, and basically he violated that agreement...." [I]t was the breach of that directive that led to the reprimand, according to Stephenson.
"It happened, not because he said a lot of things wrong, but because he decided to be the spokesman again," Stephenson said.
In short, Buttars was removed because his word, given to his senate colleagues, turned out to be no good. In politics, once it becomes known that your word is no good, your effectiveness all but collapses, since those you have to work with know you cannot be trusted. [Same thing Mayor Godfrey is running into since he broke his agreement with the Council regarding projects the city lobbyist would work on being jointly approved by both. When Godfrey assigned the lobbyist to work on a bill, since passed, installing him as the un-removable head of Ogden's RDA, it became clear to all on the Council, or it should have, that the Mayor's word was no good, that agreements with him, unless reduced to ordinances, were worthless. His increasing difficulties with the Council since then spring in no small part, I think, from Council members finally coming to understand that the Mayor's word is not good, that a handshake agreement with him is worthless.]

Interesting story in the Trib. Worth a look.

26 comments:

disgusted said...

In the bigger picture is the scary fact of what Buttars’ believes and apparently he is not alone in those thoughts within the state legislature when it comes to the gay or lesbian lifestyle.
If this issue insights him this much on these peoples lifestyle then I can only imagine the under toned whispering in the halls of the legislature toward those of us that are not of the right religion. Not as insightful but we represent a damaging influences just the same and there are a lot more of us. I do not live a gay or lesbian lifestyle but just the same I don’t have a problem with people that chose to live a different lifestyle so long as they let me live mine and so long as their lifestyle doesn’t hurt any one else.
Seems to me that the same principals that Buttars professes to fight for in the legislature are the same ones he’s attacking within the gay community. He represent himself as having a political ideology that hates big government and that doesn’t want the government to be in control of individual peoples lives or for a government that is telling businesses how to run their business and he wants his constituents to have the right to practice their own religion without persecution.
Seems awfully hypocritical to harbor such ill will for people that are just asking for the same privileges that he represents to his constituents that he stands for and I guess the same could be said for those in the legislature that share his views.

Fear of Rainbows said...

What is really sad and terrifying is not only that Buttars speaks out crazily, bigoted and scary, (and believes what he says so it apperars) but that this is also the thinking of the majority of Utahns, though most would never admit it in public or in the press such as he did. The LDS church preaches this type of bigoted teaching to their members. Ask any one of them and they are fearful and outwardly against gays and lesbians. In fact it is compared to murder and rape in their teachings. So the predominant religion already pushes the agenda of sin and condemnation against gays and lesbians. An offense so great that it leads to excommunication immediately if not treated, which in the 70s was electric shock therapy. One wonders why teen suicide of young mormon gays is so high in Utah where the church puts so much pressure against them and not any acceptance. One has to realize that being gay to a gay person is natural and normal to them. God made us all and gays have no choice but to be themselves as natural as anyones attractions. It is not a choice but how one is born.

Buttars speaks out in extreme expressing the beliefs of the majority of saints in this state. That is scary. But true. And they teach love and tolerance? Now that is hypocrisy. What would Jesus do or say to this? He loved everyone and taught to love eachother as ourselves.

How much was spent against California's effort for gay marriage from the LDS church and high level members? A lot of money to defend their marriage was spent from this church. Where is separation of church and state? Why isn't their tax exempt status revoked? Why does someone else having a piece of paper that expresses their love and happiness threaten a temple marriage?

To think that these people are descendants of polygamists just like the FLDS which are really the ancestors of the Utah mormons. They settled Utah because they were persecuted for their practices, beliefs and way of life yet now they do the same to others. What is so hard about acceptance and tolerance? Thats what they ask for, thats what we all ask for.

The rainbow flag has all colors of the spectrum, as does our world.

Curmudgeon said...

Whether Butttars views are those of the majority of Utahns is not as evident as some are suggesting. Recall, the polling on the package of gay-rights bills submitted in this legislative session suggested a majority of the public approved them [e.g. guaranteeing access of same sex partners to visit each other in hospitals, and so on].

That a majority in Utah oppose gay marriage or even civil unions is, I think, so. That a majority supports Buttars' more extreme effusions of bigotry is probably not so, based on the latest polling data.

Republicans don't get it!! said...

This is what I know about the degradation of America. That is when the family falls apart so does the nation. So what in the hell is all the republicans in Utah doing to stop divorce in this world? Nothing, absolutely nothing. So War on anything, what is it good for, absolutely nothing. uuuggg. So until the republican come up with a way to stop divorce in this world they are part of the problem.

democrat said...

If you want to save the family unit? Stop voting for the republicans! It takes a good job to raise a rightious family.

Republicans know nothing of how to run an economy. Just look at Godfrey, Huntman, Bush, Romney.

Their a disgrace!!!

Retarded Republicans said...

Well, it is now clear the American people can count on no support or ideas from Republicans in the House or, with a very few exceptions, the Senate. Well, that isn’t entirely true. Republicans have one idea; tax cuts. Tax cuts alone didn’t do the trick last year and they didn’t stimulate economic growth above what was seen in the 90s after 2001, but why let facts - or your own record - get in the way of bloviating endlessly about your faux concern for the national debt?

These resurrected fiscal conservatives took what was supposed to be a $5 trillion surplus over the course of the first six or seven years of the new millennium and turned it into a $10 trillion national debt. Many of the less discrete among them admitted record deficits were part of a strategy to "starve the beast" and force significant cuts in government spending by essentially bankrupting the United States. How were they to know the economy would tank before they could skip town and blame it all on a new Democratic administration? For that matter, who could have predicted we would elect someone with a decidedly Keynesian approach to economic crisis?

In addition to the failure of Republicans to take responsibility for failed policies, record deficits or their blatant hypocrisy, some are now circulating the demonstrably false claim that tax cuts lead to more, not less, government revenue. This argument has been raised before by conservatives and repeated efforts to show beyond all doubt that 2 - 2 does not equal 4 have so far gotten nowhere.

Here are the facts. Tax cuts do not stimulate significant economic growth above the historical norm and they do not generate more revenue. As with any home budget, when you cut revenue you have less money coming in. Seems obvious and redundant doesn’t it?

danny said...

I feel Curm did his customarily good job with his article today.

One other thing. As a politician, as with any person, we may hold certain beliefs that are not considered appropriate to say in certain settings.

When a person forgets that, we question his judgment, appropriately, on a range of issues.

Shooting off your mouth like Buttars does is the canary in the coal mine. It indicates there is something wrong with him.

Curmudgeon said...

Danny:

Thank you.

What will it cost us said...

One Republician did support one of the Common Ground Bills, Brent Wallis Dist 10, even though it did fail to pass the committee. I'm glad we have at least one vote and one Republician with common sense that resides in Ogden.

danny said...

I have found a problem with success is arrogance - the feeling that we are better than others - that we cannot help but be better than others.

Perhaps this is part of the reason our legislature seems so stupid. They have been so successful at the ballot box year after year, they have become arrogant fools.

I remember how the Nazis looked down on the "mongrel inferior" Russians. I remember when Jodl was standing in a room full of them, he acted like he was surrounded by dogs, even though they had defeated him.

This is America's problem - the belief that we are the best, that we have the right to always claim that we are better.

And yet, in so many ways, we not only are not leaders anymore, we are not even players. Here is yet another example.

Another Great Industry Piddled Away

What we really need is humility. We need to begin again from the point where we find ourselves - the back of the race - unless someone will pay us to watch TV and play video games.

Brett said...

I'm glad to see that Buttars was removed from his chair leadership position. If thevoters are as smart, they will remove him from the Legislature. It is what he deserves.

In case you haven't noticed, most politiians let the power, and recognition that come with an elected office go to their head and they change. The higher the office, themoe chance there is for corruptness, especially when those politicians lose contact with their constituents. One more reason to argue for term limits when the polls fail to get rid of the bad politicians as happened in Ogden's last mayoral race.

The Lovely Jennifer said...

Fear of Ranbows:

If you want people to express and exhibit tolerance and love, set an example. Don't be the hypocrite you are attacking! If the LDS people want to say that they believe homsexuality is wrong, let them! If the Catholics want to say they believe abortion is wrong, let them! Don't attack them for expressing their views. You are just as free to live your life and express opinion, without condemning those who you accuse of the same thing you are doing. Who is the Hypocrite now?

I do, however agree that Buttars should have kept his word, and let those who put him in his position of trust to maintain that trust.

OgdenLover said...

People expressing their opinions is fine. However, when they try to force their beliefs on others, it's not.

Early settlers founded America because of religious persecution (ie, having others' beliefs imposed on them by law) in Europe. How is that different from having any Church membership influence legislation today? Oppressors often claim "my morals make me do it", not acknowledging that others, who have equally high morals, my have different views.

It seems that those most vocal in claiming that this is a "Christian Nation" are often the first to act in a most un-Christian way toward their fellow humans. How quickly they forget that the Pledge of Allegiance ends with "and liberty and justice for ALL."

ET said...

BUTTARS RECALL hits FACEBOOK

The People for the resignation of Utah Senate member Chris Buttars

FACEBOOK: 2.20.2009
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=64025178072&ref=mf

Common Interest - Politics
Description:
Chris Buttars is a festering boil on the buttocks of Utah and our great country. It does not matter what political party you subscribe to, Mr.Buttars is an embarrassment to any decent freedom loving American. Buttars has made comments that some could argue as racist and homophobic and must be stripped of any legislative power. Don't forget people, he works for us, the people, we are his employers, lets do our best to get him out of office.

It doesn't matter if your a democrat, republican, liberal, conservative, independent, constitutionalist, gay, straight, Christian, Mormon, satanist or whatever. Anybody who cherishes freedom must join.

Invite all your friends to join as well. Pass this around. Post it on political blogs.

ET said...

SLC TRIB POSTERS continue to blast BUTTARS!

As a member of the SLC TRIBposters, I think this particular article on Utah SEN Chris Buttars will be of interest to the WCF crew. In particular, I recommend reading the comment section.

Buttars: Gays 'greatest threat to America'

Yes, we hard core SLC TRIBposters.........keep it global and keep it lively.

ozboy said...

ET

Buttars does not work for "us", he represents the people in his voting district that just returned him to the state senate with a large majority of their vote inspite of his long history as an embarrassing buffoon.

The Lovely Jennfier said...

OL

I agree with you about those acting un-Christian towards everyone who doesn't believe the way they do.

I believe the LDS church encourage their members to vote ... period. Then when they vote, they are also encouraged to vote by their own individual conscience, according to their beliefs. Isn't that what a democracy is all about?

If more people would vote - period - what differences might we see in how things are?

Digress to -- Another Utah Helmet Bill Tabled. This happened because people got involved, voiced their concerns to the right people - AND VOTED! And the people they voted for are listening to what the voters want!

You can write or phone a senator or representative and they will ignore you if you are not on the rolls of registered VOTERS! Your voice means nothing if you are not taking advantage of your right and privelege to voted and be heard.

If enough people get involved, vote their conscience - what does it matter what religion they are? Had it gone the other way, with more people voting FOR Prop 8, would anyone be attacking the LDS church?

It is each individual person's right and duty to vote their conscience. If not enough individuals vote for something and it doesn't happen, no one is to blame. The vote declared the outcome. Period.

If it doesn't come out the way you liked it, don't look for someone to attack - just remember it's the votes that made it happen.

I think more groups and organizations should encourage all their members to vote - period. And then encourage all their members to vote their conscience, whatever that may be.

Voter percentages are ridiculously low in most turnouts, and still people complain. Don't sit back and think there will be enough OTHER individual voters to take care of it -- you be the vote that makes the difference.

TLJ

RudiZink said...

How disturbing!

The lovely Jennifer, one of my old-time hottie pals on The Street (25th) in Downtown Ogden during the 1990's, now sounds like a grizzled old gal from "The Relief Society."

Sad, very sad.

And Totally Weird too.

Bill C. said...

Speaking of 25th st., I drove by the old Star Noodle building today, looks like something seen in footage from the Gaza Strip.
Now that the clandestine attempt to remove the hight limits failed I couldn't help but wonder about Jewish Lightning, like some speculated about the Shupe Williams building. I hear it's wise in a bad ecconomy to keep those insurance premiums current.

ET said...

OZ,..............

I really do not care who Buttars works for or who voted him IN.

He is a disgrace to UTAH............PERIOD.

He is bad for TOURISM in UTAH. I am not from Utah. But I hear that tourism $$$$$$$ are critical to all of Utah's economy. Not just Weber County's economy.

Rick Sanchez just interviewed Gov. Huntsman on CNN today. When asked what GH thought of REP GOV Bobby Jindal refusing to take any sstimulus money, GH repeated what Gov Schwarzenneger said yesterday of CA: " Send it to me for UTAH. I will be happy to take it."

Compared to Buttars and Romney, Gov Huntsman was looking positively Presdential. However, that is IF I was a UTAH GOP-er. Which will not happen even IF HELL FREEZES OVER. In the NEXT ICE AGE.

curious 1 said...

Buttars does effect every law that is passed in Utah. He is proud to have stopped every gay civil rights for the last 8 years, he boasts about that.

If you were in business catering to tourists or business entities I would be concerned about those with other dispositions that will take their money elsewhere. His remarks have made most of the large dailys across the nation. He is an embarasssment to most citizens.

Yes 90% of the legislature might agree with him, but they aren't serving their constituents where the polls say 52% could care less about civil unions and other rights denied other minorities both gay and straight.

ET said...

Ever since Prop 8 passed and Obama got elected, the SLC TRIB has been alive with aticles about the backlash against Mormons, espectially Mormons in Utah. With the exception of Mormons is CA., Mormons have no majority anyplace else.

In CA active Mormons are only 2%of CA population. And considering what Breeders they are, 75% of that population is probably under 18, and cannot vote.

As the blogesphere exploded against active Mormons, from 11.4.2008 on, Utah has been dubed the Hate State. Surpassing Colorado, when it as dubed the Hate State in 1992.

Currently, ther are about 5 articles pertaining to some aspect of the Buttars dust up still getting posts on the SLC TRIB. As a SLC TRIB regular poster, I can tell you those blogs are contributed to by folks across the USA. Many of them former Mormons.

To what degree will people interested in Utah Tourism point to the SLC TRIB blog threads to encourage Utah tourism? Having spent the last 25 yrs in marekting in the east, I can tell you that is a hellava way to Market!

The Lovely Jennifer said...

Rudi

WHO YOU CALLING GRIZZLED?!?!?

BTW - I've always been a little weird. So what?

TLJ

Curmudgeon said...

Bill C:

You wrote: I couldn't help but wonder about Jewish Lightning, like some speculated about the Shupe Williams building. I hear it's wise in a bad ecconomy to keep those insurance premiums current.

Arson as "Jewish lightning?" Jesus, Bill, Utah's reputation is bad enough with Buttars running his mouth without engaging his brain. We do not need the disease to spread further. Get a grip.

Bill C. said...

Curm, it's just a simple term, one that make Don Rickles a pile of cash, and he's Jewish.
I might also point out that like gays, Buttars believes the Jews will also have to repent and convert to his way of thinking to achieve salvation. That particular belief is the dominant one throughout the whole legislature, as you may have noticed when the cameras were running after the closed GOP meeting. These guys don't confine their bigotry to just one group of folks round here.

Curmudgeon said...

Sorry, Bill, but we'll have to disagree about this "just a simple term" business. I've heard the same about "nigger rich" --- hey, it's just a simple term, and doesn't mean much. I don't buy it there either.

Because wing nuts like Buttars are out there, seems to me all the more reason to avoid casual racist stereotyping phrases like "nigger rich" or "jew'd him down" or "jewish lightning" and so on. It's a sadly long list.

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