Friday, February 06, 2009

Std-Ex: $62,949 to be Donated to Ogden

A generous anonymous donor picks up the tab for taxpayer monies secretly pilfered and squandered by the Godfrey administration
He loves Ogden and appreciates what (local recreation and entertainment) venues are being built that can put us on the map.

John Patterson - Ogden City CAO
$62,949 to be donated to Ogden
February 6, 2009

Whoever you are... I've always depended on the kindness of strangers.

Blanche DuBois (Vivien Leigh)
A Streetcar Named Desire

Ace Reporter Schwebke this morning fixes the dollar amount of Capital Improvement Project funds that the Godfrey administration secretly "skimmed" away in Fiscal Year 2008, unbeknownst to the city council, which monies were expended by Boss Godfrey for council-unauthorized engineering and design work on the all but now defunct Fortress of Mayoral Ego (Ice Tower) fiasco.

Mr. Schwebke also reports that a generous anonymous donor has now come forth to pick up the tab, and take the heat off Boss Godfrey... somewhat.

Ah... "the kindness of strangers"...



althepal said...

Brings to mind the old Thomas Tusser axe: "A fool and his money are soon parted."

Horse puckey said...

A secret donor because he loves Ogden? Yea right.

Dap said...

So what is it ye who is always willing to cast the first stone? 62949 or 2949 ?

dan s. said...

This article raises as many questions as it answers:

1. When will this anonymous contribution be received by the city?

2. Are there any strings attached to the contribution? One would imagine that the contributor would expect some sort of commitment, on the part of the city, to follow through and complete the project.

3. Whether or not the anonymous contribution will come through, was it legal for the administration to spend over $60,000 in capital improvement funds on this project without the City Council's authorization?

4. Given the City Council's authority over the city's budget, how can the administration accept a private contribution that is earmarked for a specific purpose? This would seem to be yet another way in which the administration is attempting to operate outside the council-approved budget.

5. By what authority under GRAMA can the city keep the contributor's name anonymous? It seems to me that the contributor's check (or the equivalent) will become a public record and I'm not aware of any provision that would allow the city to withhold it from a GRAMA request. There's no provision in GRAMA that allows the government to protect a record merely by making a promise of confidentiality, and the 1984 KUTV case before the Utah Supreme Court turned in part on the finding that the government can't keep records secret merely by promising someone that they will do so. (However, the city has been very creative in applying various GRAMA exceptions in the past, so perhaps they think they've found a way.)

6. Is there any precedent for this? Has anyone ever before heard of a situation where the government spent money without the authority to do so, then accepted a private contribution to reimburse the expenditure? Has anyone heard of the government accepting anonymous contributions for any purpose?

I can't wait to learn the answers to these questions...

danny said...

Dan S's brilliant commentary stands in stark contrast to the mealy-mouthed comments from Godfrey henchman Patterson, and shows why Ogden is good place to live IN SPITE OF THE GODFREY ADMINISTRATION.

My guess is that the answer lies in the following.

Likely: Godfrey knew he was caught with his pants down, having illegally spent a lot of money, so he fabricated this "donation", just like he fabricated the claims about "donors in the wings" for the now dead ice tower, intending in time to illegally and quietly divert some federal community development money to cover the gap.

Unlikely but Possible: There really is a donor, consisting of one of the city's silver spoon club with more inherited money than talent, who kicked in.

althepal said...

Seems to me, in the event the original diversion of CIP funds was illegal, the corpus delicti of the illegaal act is "complete," and that the "ex post facto "donation would neither excuse nor mitigate the already completed illegal act.

The Standard has definitely opened up a can of worms this morning.

Nice job, Schwebke.

Curmudgeon said...

The key elements of the story, I think, are Patterson's conceding that the Council "may not have been aware" that the Godfrey administration was spending the money as it spent it, and the Council's policy analyst confirming that the Council learned about it only last month as it reviewed Ogden's annual financial report. By that time, the work had already been completed.

Wasn't it just a few weeks ago that Hizzonah was filling the paper with boasting about how hard he worked to keep the Council informed, and how disappointed he was at the Council's unwillingness to communicate with him? All this recalls the situation a couple of years ago, when Hizzonah was in the thrall of his gondola obsession. The Council had earlier passed a resolution opposing spending another dime on that Rube Goldberg pipe dream, and Councilwoman Wicks tried to get from the Administration how much it had already spent on gondola matters. She never got a full and honest accounting, as I recall.

After that, the emails emerged in which the Administration urged keeping the Council from learning it wanted to use a UTA grant to fund a gondola prep project.

And now this.

I notice Godfrey Administration Sock Puppet Councilman Stephenson has no problem with the Administration's ice tower spending that we just found out about. "That's just how things work," he told the SE.

No, Mr. Stephenson. That's "just how things work" among your cronies in the Godfrey administration. It is not "just how things work" in well-run municipalities.

just a little lie here and there said...

Leopards never change their spots, and neither will Godfrey and the gaggle change their ways. They are nothing more than a bunch of con artists raping the tax payers and council doing what they want in the name of their vision for the City.

Brandon reminds me of the little lord Godfrey sticking up for Southwick. It's all too sickening.

Curmudgeon said...

Hmmmm... just occurred to me, this is a dark dark morning for the Standard Examiner bashers among us. Why, no one this morning has called it The Gondola Examiner or accused it of being a Godfrey Administration house organ.

Imagine that....

just a little lie here and there said...

Oh, Mr. Curmudgeon,

Like I said in the previous post, leopards never change their spots. So too will the Se go back to their old ways, one or two good stories doth not make a change in the spots. Or something like that.

Curmudgeon said...

Just A Little:

Bad analogy. Leopards can't change. Institutions, like newspapers, can and often do. They can improve [as I think the SE has done over the past few years], or they can decline [the NYT was for a time a sad pale reflection of the paper it used to be; nowhere near fully recovered yet, sad to say. Mcclatchy ate its lunch on Iraq.]. After all, WCF Ogdenites long-of-tooth regularly post talking about what a good paper the SE used to be under previous owners, editors, etc.... Clear evidence that it has "changed its spots" over time [so to speak]. And so, arguably, could again.

We might disagree... and I suspect we would... about whether the SE has improved recently. But that the possibility of improvement --- or decline --- is there [true for any paper] seems beyond argument to me.

fireman joe said...

"It is hoped the donor will provide funding as soon as the ice tower's design is modified to include a geothermal component that would cool and heat the adjacent Key Bank and MarketStar buildings, Patterson said."

1-Strings attached

2-It's never gonna happen

Bill C. said...

Curm, even your buddy Bill o Riley fires a shot in the opposit direction once in while, so he can make his silly fair and balanced claim. The gondola examiner is no different.
This secret donor thing is interesting though.
His reason stated being he likes what Ogden is doing with all these new outdoor recreation projects.
Funny then how his contribution is earmarked for a dead oops attempt, and only covers money illegally spent.
If his premice were actually true, he could have provided all the funds for one of three of lying little matty's new additional project offered up for the CIP. The skate park, the BMX track or my favorite, the pygmy pony trail, nothing like an urban trail ride on a pygmy pony.
The fact that he donates to cover illegal activity seems to dismiss the concept of philanthropy.
Makes me wonder if lying little matty didn't pony up some of his leftover campain funds, or at least lean on some unsuspecting FOM for future considerations.

Machster said...

Now see what "mysticism" training can do for you? And for your "view of what is right and wrong"? For your "management style"?

And see what "Transparency in all Governmental affairs" holds as promise?

GRAMA requests would disappear as the pet rocks they are. Even LDS "modeled and shaped" (re B. F.Skinner's Behaviorist learning theory) administrators would be forced to learn and abide by open communications with regard to all public business for a change. A major change.

And believe it or not, the Standard Examiner editorial, written by none other than Don Porter, himself an acknowledged active LDS Bishop, nailed a big part of the problem. It was back in a January 06 edition, I think, and titled "Why LDS Municipal Leaders Just Don't Get It" (or words to that effect).

In this excellent editorial, although he steers clear of the "mystic" angle, he points out how the LDS are used to/have grown up with nothing but... "top down" decision making, when municipal and state government is the reverse, "bottom up" decision making process. How the parernalistic Stake, Ward, Bishop, Stake Presidency, Quorium of the Seventy, the Twelve..., Prophet top down authority is the only model they (LDS elected and unelected officials) have grown up with. And decisions, although they are discussed at lower echelons during Ward meetings and such by the general membership, once a decision is decreed or reveiled "from on high" no one can question nor argue for "amendments" so to speak. To adjust and make a revelation or decision better, or correct oversights in the original decision.

Afterwards, I think Don P. took lots of heat over the editorial and no further discussion was permitted, apparently by unseen or secretive communications all too frequently serving as "the Great OZ" behind the "Zion curtain".

Is that an improvement? Or is it something else? So much is hidden and there is so little credibility left in the wake of such "mysticism" it seems impossible for any community to be politically healthy and happy.

The solution is unpopular among the 66 to 72% of the population, because full governmental transparency would simply reveal far too much. And there is power behind the Zion curtain so long as secretive deals, trades and such can and continue to occur. It comes down to "power and control" which leads to "thrice blessed" (an LDS term like "desirous") "Rocky Mountain Jews" getting a boatload of your and my money one way or another.
That is at least one opinion. But then "opinions are like a-holes, everyone has at least one".

Curmudgeon said...

In re: GRAMA. There is a bill moving through the legislature now that would significantly restrict what would be available via GRAMA requests in the future. I think the SL Trib had a story on the bill a few days ago.

It did not say whether the Ogden city administration's pet paid-by-the-public lobbyist has been tasked by the Mayor to work for the passage of that bill. Though it would be interesting to know if he has.

ozboy said...

I think it rather logical that a "secret" donor would make up the money "secretly" removed from the city treasury by the Lil Lord and one or more of his empty suits. Secrecy after all is the cornerstone of the Godfreyite movement.

sherlock holmes said...

It comes to my mind that the "secret" Ogden Community Foundation which wound up with the American Can property and remains unaccountable to anyone has decided to cover the Mayor's ass.

amateur private eye said...

why is it that no one has ever been able to get an audited statement or even a monthly operating statement on the notorious Ogden Community Foundation?????????????????????

There are probably a lot more nefarious deeds being hidden there.

dan s. said...


Has anyone submitted a GRAMA request for the OCF records, since the determination was made that it was operating as a branch of the city? If so, what was the outcome? If the city denied the request, was the denial appealed to the records review board? If the board turned down the appeal, was a lawsuit filed? If not, why not?

The city relies on the fact that 99.9% of the time, citizens will give up before the city gives up. If you want this to change, you have to be willing to keep fighting.

Inspector Clouseau said...

Inspector Clouseau here.

What is the Comprehensive Annual Financial Report (CAFR)?

Careful examination of the CAFR is the only way Ogden City Lumpencitizens can find out how morally-degenerate some of out city leadership are here in Ogden City, with the worst of them, "Lyin Little Matty" sitting at the helm of city governernment, whilst doling out semi-official favors to his campaign contributors, and putting his little fingers into the Capital Investments Fund "cookie jar."

Wake up, Ogden City Taxpayers. You're being reamed by a little shit whose ultimately going to wind up, when the smoke clears, living in Draper, along with his good pal and mentor, Val Southwick.

googleguy said...

From the Utah Criminal Code:

76-8-402. Misusing public monies.
(1) Every public officer of this state or a political subdivision, or of any county, city, town, precinct, or district of this state, and every other person charged, either by law or under contract, with the receipt, safekeeping, transfer, disbursement, or use of public monies commits an offense if the officer or other charged person:
(a) appropriates the money or any portion of it to his own use or benefit or to the use or benefit of another without authority of law;
(b) loans or transfers the money or any portion of it without authority of law;
(c) fails to keep the money in his possession until disbursed or paid out by authority of law;
(d) unlawfully deposits the money or any portion in any bank or with any other person;
(e) knowingly keeps any false account or makes any false entry or erasure in any account of or relating to the money;
(f) fraudulently alters, falsifies, conceals, destroys, or obliterates any such account;
(g) willfully refuses or omits to pay over, on demand, any public monies in his hands, upon the presentation of a draft, order, or warrant drawn upon such monies by competent authority;
(h) willfully omits to transfer the money when the transfer is required by law; or
(i) willfully omits or refuses to pay over, to any officer or person authorized by law to receive it, any money received by him under any duty imposed by law so to pay over the same.
(2) A violation of Subsection (1) is a felony of the third degree, except it is a felony of the second degree if:
(a) the value of the money exceeds $5,000;
(b) the amount of the false account exceeds $5,000;
(c) the amount falsely entered exceeds $5,000;
(d) the amount that is the difference between the original amount and the fraudulently altered amount exceeds $5,000; or
(e) the amount falsely erased, fraudulently concealed, destroyed, obliterated, or falsified in the account exceeds $5,000.
(3) In addition to the penalty described in Subsection (2), a public officer who violates Subsection (1) is subject to the penalties described in Section 76-8-404.
Amended by Chapter 106, 1999 General Session

Sally said...

Whoa, googleguy!

Looks like Godfrey may already be in DEEP DOO!

Bill C. said...

Well I'm not sure exactly what level this rises to but, if one takes a moment and thinks back a little bit there's deffinately a pattern of behavior.
Off the top of my head I can recall, the urban campground, the hotdog donut train car and now this icicle funding. These are very recent episodes of spending before approval and or exceeding said expenditures. Add to this the conspiracy to funnel $250,000 to the thorazine addled, vested, squirrel phobic peterson and of course other monies spent on the gondola promotion, is this criminal behavior?
I'm sure people can add more to this list, and this event should spur a full reflective accounting.
Over time many things that they appeared to have gotten away with can be fitted nicely into this tapestry, and folks need to see it.

Something's Rotten in Ogden said...

You know I thought the ice tower was dead when the RAMP funds were returned and Godfrey was unable to get the private donations he wanted. So it has occured to me that maybe Jeff Lowe is the anonymous donor. He needs to keep the project alive and Patterson's description of the donor makes it sound like Jeff Lowe. Just a theory.

dan s. said...


Let's not give the Standard-Examiner too much credit on this. They could have looked into the ice tower funding at any time over the last year (or more), and they didn't. I reported on this blog last May that the city had spent over $30,000 on the ice tower which it tried to charge to the RAMP grant before being told it couldn't do that. Councilwoman Jeske reported here on June 10 that the city's total contributions to the ice tower exceeded $100,000. The news that the RAMP money had to be returned was broken by Rudi right here on wcforum on January 14, and a comment by "disgusted" pointed us all to the ice tower line item in the CAFR. The S-E printed a story with the RAMP news the following day. After reading that story, I sent a GRAMA request to the city asking for all contracts and records of payment regarding the ice tower. Normally such requests must be filled within two weeks, but on January 28 I learned that the city was claiming it needed more time for legal review of the records. At that point I notified the S-E of the situation and Schwebke started working on the story; he even sent me an email asking which financial report I had referred to. Even so, it took another full week before the story went to press.

So let's just say that the S-E hasn't been pursuing this story entirely on its own initiative. Nevertheless, they've played an important role and I'm grateful for it.

What will it cost us said...

Bill C, don't forget the bleachers the mayors purchsed without authorization for the outdoor stage. He sure can spend tax money like a Wall Strret bailout.

Doctor Opposite said...

Good one, Rudi! I love the scene where the mentally-ill Blanche DuBois get's willingly led off to the mental hospital.

Is it possible that our mentally deranged mayor would also go so quietly?

This is something we need to think about as Mayor Godfrey's delusional world crumbles all around him.

Will he go quietly... like Blanche Dubois?

Or will the OPD have to flush him out with tear-gas, once he's indicted for a violation of Utah Code 76-8-402?

So many questions...

I usually have all the answers...

But NOT this time.

amateur said...

dan s.,

GRAMA requests were repeatedly made to Ogden City re the Ogden Community Foundation.

Ogden City has no records because the Foundation is a non-profit foundation with its own set of by-laws and board of directors.

Most of the Board is made up of Ogden City employees and was run out of the Mayor's office until a lot of hue and cry developed about it in 2008.

It is one of those Ogden entities started by Matthew Godffey but which disappears below the radar screen when a citizen wants to know what is going on.

senior sleuth said...

dan s.,

The determination was never made that the Ogden Community Foundation was operating as a part of Ogden City government

Bill C. said...

Would some legal mind help me out here? We've all seen the e-mails and there is no real question that the City administration was conspiring to divert $250,000 public money, that's a quarter million to a private individual, a friend and traveling partner of the mayor. Even though the state of Utah is saddled with an inept incompetent AG, the feds or someone should have responded. The statute of limitations isn't up on that is it, does one apply?

Bill C. said...

Oh, I forgot my big ending.
It's become all to clear during lying little matty's reign of terror that continual lying is not criminal, but conspiring to steal a quarter of a million should be.

ozboy said...

Bill and all others who would like to see the Lil Lord stand before the bar of justice - Forget it! It ainta gonna happen. No one with the authority to do so - will.

Regardless of political parties, the handful of people that are actually in a position to investigate and pursue justice in this situation have all turned down many requests from good upstanding citizens to bring justice to Ogden. The Godfreyites have clout and standing with the legal powers that be in Zion and short of an outright and public murder - with film - would any of the Lil Lord's hatchet men get investigated, indicted or convicted.

In a fair and just world we would have a chance for justice. In the Land of Oz the power is all behind the curtain and justice is just a fancy notion indulged in by dreamers.

Gearjunkie said...


I suspect the city paid Jeff Lowe for work, not the other way around. None of his business ventures have been too lucrative, as alluded to here.

RudiZink said...

Thanks for the great and realistic (but bittersweet) tribute to my old friend, Jeff Lowe, Gearjunkie.

In the end, he'll be best remembered for his magnificent life accomplishments, and not his failures.

And so it should be.

Thanks so very much for the post.

WhatWardRUin said...

It shouldn't take too much to figure out who the "loves Ogden" secret donor is. Over the last year or two the same three names keep coming up as the ice tower's naming sponsor;
1. Curt Geiger
2. John Gullo
3. Allen Hall
Geiger is all talk and really has no money, so I doubt he is the wealthy benefactor. That leaves the other two who have both professed to love Ogden and support the ice tower. I would have thought Hall was too smart to fall for this, but who knows. Does the ice tower fairy just write a check or leave a stack of unmarked twentys under Patterson's pillow? Patterson really lucked into someone to cover his butt, again, but there is still the question of how the money was spent in the first place without a legal procurement and accounting.

RudiZink said...

Interesting analysis, WWRUI, but I'd immediately eliminate Alan Hall as the generous anonymous benefactor. My continuing contact with some of Mr.Hall's insiders reveals that Mr. Hall doesn't like Mr. Godfrey's act very much at all. For the most part, Mr. Hall has spent a lot of dough building up businesses the old fashioned way, with private capital, and isn't fond of the concept of right wing socialist government. Philosphically, Alan Hall and Matthew Godfrey are like "oil" versus "h20."

You're right. Geiger is as effectively broke as any other ordinary Godfreyite in Ogden. Unless he could somehow motivate his Japanese handlers to pony up some dough, it's fair to say that he's not equipped to pony up $70 grand or so himself, even with the little wife "working" on the Ogden City payroll.

As for Gullo, he's told me himself that Godfrey is too "immature" to handle actual serious money, so I doubt that even John would hand Godfrey 70 grand with no serious strings attached.

Which brings us back to your list, which needs to be considerably expanded.

I'm going with Danny on this. I believe the "generous anonymous donor" was a ruse to provide "cover" when Schweke's story was set to come out. Godfrey got caught with his pants down, and Schwebke gave Godfrey a full week's notice from the time he received all the underlying GRAMA info and the time the story actually went to print, to come up with a convincing cover story. Inventing an anonymous donor was the best that Godfrey could do when he was backed into the corner under the circumstances of the short time-frame; and thus his "story" reeks.

Who is the anonymous donor?

My guess is that there isn't one of those yet -- if ever there will be one at all.

Godfrey is in serious trouble here. Time will tell how facile he can be in playing the facts.

Hopefully both the City Council and Standard-Examiner will continue to pin his ears back on this.

There's no doubt in my mind that he's been caught red-handed in serious illegal conduct.

WhatWardRUin said...

Good points Rudi. Gullo is still my pick, but your analysis is more likely to be true than my guess. Godfrey and Patterson have a record of slipping under the radar with the SE, so I hope the City Council will stay on track. I'm still very curious as to why the HUGE over-runs on the train car cafe' have not raised an eyebrow from the Council. Patterson told them the cost would be $34,000. It is now over $130,000 and still more to come. Should be easy enough to follow that money trail.

drewmeister said...

It's absolutely breathtaking. It's like upside-down world. We have our own little George W. Bush for all of Ogden to enjoy. He's pulled so many stunts I've lost track - which is what he's counting on. We all become desensitized to the revolting greed and corruption, and eventually forget half of the crimes they've committed.

It honestly makes me weep over the shameful way our city is being used.

Anonymous said...

There is indeed nothing new under the sun.

Curmudgeon said...


You wrote: . We have our own little George W. Bush for all of Ogden to enjoy.

Well, it's not quite that bad. But if Mayor Godfrey denounced Idaho for attacking Utah by drifting mercury from mining waste down on us, and he decided to retaliate by calling out the Utah National Guard to invade Wyoming, then your analogy would be dead on.

Anonymous said...

For the next decade or so, G.W. Bush has replaced A. Hitler as the poster boy for Evil Under The Sun.

Curmudgeon said...


Sorry, but I beg to differ. The Crawford Kid will not be [in the US at least] the poster boy for evil. He will be, with very good reason, the poster boy for incompetence --- a kind of Curly, Larry and Moe with Inspector Clouseau thrown in, all wrapped up in one clueless package.

disgusted said...

WhatWardRUin and RudiZink

i have another suggestion as to who the anonymous donor might turn out to be. and i too think the mayor may still be doing some arm twisting to get this guy to be an anonymous donor.
my bet is that it will turn out to be the owner of the building that just a month or so ago was given a $4 million parking structure for free. the same parking structure that is in front of the proposed ice tower location and the same building that the heating and air conditioning geothermal system would be sevicing.
ill pu a nickel on it.

RudiZink said...

Sounds like a sound and well-reasoned argument to me, Disgusted.

So let's add Alan Hall and John Gullo back on the suspect's list.

Fireman Joe also had a cogent comment on this, i.e., "strings are attached...It ain't gonna happen."

It'll be interesting, I think, to watch how this all plays out.

Keep in mind, BTW, that if Godfrey's diversion of funds was illegal... NO ANONYMOUS DONOR will be able to bail Godfrey out.

This indiscretion on Godfrey's part could conceivably serve as the foundation for impeaching the LITTLE TWERP.

Think about it!

fireman joe said...

If it could be designed to run on a "mayorthermal" component we'd be set.

Anonymous said...

If Mayor Godfrey has, with deliberate intent, stole city funds, knowing that to do so put him in violation of state law, he would be guilty of a 2nd degree felony.

He would also be screwed.

We do not know what the city charter provides for in such an instance of malfeasance.

We do know that restitution after the fact, while perhaps benefiting him during sentencing, would have no bearing on the illegality of the initial crime.

Would it be good for the city to have him removed from office?
Doesn't matter.

We expect our elected officials to behave in a manner that runs parallel to our own sense of propriety.

If anyone was looking for a reason to get "lying little matty", this would seem to be it.

Have at it.

Curmudgeon said...


Seems to me there be a little rhetorical overkill going on here. If... and it's still "if" at this point... the Mayor spent city funds on the ice tower project without first getting a required authorization to do so, that would not constitute "stealing city funds." Mis-applying, expending without authorization, etc. probably. Theft, no, unless it turns out that the money was used for a personal vacation in Tahiti, or repaving his driveway, to settle accounts with his bookie after betting against The U in the Sugar Bowl, or that the contractors who were paid kicked back a percentage to him under the table. And no one has alleged that. So, malfeasance, maybe. Theft, no.

googleguy said...

Curmudgeon please look above. The term used in the code is "misusing" but the important point is that it's a felony.

ozboy said...

My guess is that if someone has to kick in the money misappropriated from the city treasury it will be
Doctor Ed, possibly with help from the others in the Godfreyite inner circle. They are the ones that have the very most turf to protect along with their precious little Lord's ass.

I would dearly love to see the Lil Lord perp walked in front of the whole world, but it ainta gonna happen. No one with the legal position around here to do it has the balls or the integrity to go after one of their own.

dan s. said...

amateur and senior sleuth,

I'm sure you'll recall this article from the Standard-Examiner, published on September 18, 2007. While the findings described are not definitive, they certainly raise the possibility that OCF records dating from before the change of bylaws should be public under GRAMA. So my question is this: Did anyone file a GRAMA request for such records after September 18, 2007? If so, what was the outcome? Was there an appeal and/or a lawsuit over it?

My guess is that a citizen who cares enough to take the city to court over this would be able to get the records. If nobody cares enough to take the city to court, then we'll probably never learn any more. The Godfrey administration depends on the fact that almost nobody has the patience to fight them in a multi-year legal battle.

Dan S. said...

Comment moved to front page

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