Tuesday, February 24, 2009

Outdoor Recreation Mecca Panel Discussion Today @ WSU

12:00 noon at WSU's Wildcat Theater

Here's a quick reminder for those readers who may have forgotten to put to today's WSU campus event on their calenders:

According to information earlier received from gentle reader ET, a panel discussion is scheduled for 12:00 noon at WSU's Wildcat Theater today, featuring local luminaries Matt Godfrey, Peter Metcalf, Mary Hall, Kari Dunn and Jeremy Town. Panelists will discuss various issues surrounding Ogden City's recent efforts to brand our city as an outdoor recreation mecca. Check out our earlier article for detailed information:
A Heads-up on an Important Upcoming Emerald City Event
Attendees are invited to lodge their comments and observations in the comments section below.

We'll also note in passing (and with some amusement) that today's campus event is being held concurrently with WSU's ongoing "Storytelling Festival". With Boss Godfrey scheduled as a featured guest panelist for today's "outdoor recreation mecca" discussion, we'll snarkily observe that we can't imagine a more delightful and perfect conjunction of events. When it comes to story telling, Godfrey is definitely one of the best.

Update 2/25/09 10:39 a.m. MT: For those readers who'd like to see a thumbnail summary of yesterday's WSU campus event, the Std-Ex has a text report up on its live website, and also a short video clip.


ET said...

As I posted on first article on this panel, I found out this panel will be taped. I hope it will be shown on CH 17.

I will find out and post here, later today.

ET said...


Last week, someone commented that North Fork was now charging for us of their cross country ski / snow shoe trails. I asked several people on last wks Ogden Sierra Club outing what their experience was. They all said a donation was suggested.

But there is no stipulated fee. The below post is what I put up last week. I re-post here so that other people can read it.

Ogden Nordic has received major RAMP FUNDS, in Jan 2007 to buy new trail grooming equipment to groom those trails. RAMP FUNDS, as all here know, come from allof us in WEBER COUNTY, throughthe taxes we pay.

The people who volunteer to use that equipment, as they did last winter (2007-2008) are members of Ogden Nordic. This is a ski club that holds all of its events on the North Fork trails.

Next time anyone gives you a hard time re using North Fork Park trails in winter, tell them you made you contribution to RAMP FUNDS in your taxes.

When the Ogden Sierra Club holds it Mardi Gras event at North Fork Park trails (snow shoe and cross country ski) on FEB 28, I will ask for an update on trail fees.

Saturday February 28, 2009: Cross Country Ski - Snow Shoe costume party @ North Fork Park
Prizes for the best two costumes. Some refreshments will be served. Call Joanie @ 801-399-0034.

I am going on this OSC outing. I will report on North Fork trails after, in this blog queue.

tell me a story said...

Just make sure that when Godfrey the story teller speaks, that you hold your watch over head as far as possible. You wont want it to get infected with too much horse shit.

trail user said...

Chris Peterson is not dead, nor is his proposed project in Malan's Basin I suspect. He was in the audience at the event at WSU today, sans his usual fleece vest, with notebook in hand- actually paying attention and taking notes.
From my limited observations, it seems Ace reporter Schwebke missed his chance today to ask Mr. Peterson in the flesh what is going on with the huge swaths of land cleared above our fair city this past fall.

Ray said...


It is true the RAMP grant purchased groomers and volunteers run the equipment. One of the RAMP stipulations was the grooming become self sufficient. However the grant does not pay for fuel nor the maintanence of the equipment. Weber and Ogden Valley Pathways also donated some funds towards fuel and maintanence. It is very expensive to fuel and maintain the groomers. So unless someone is willing to foot the bill a user fee is a logical way to pay for the trail grooming.

Curmudgeon said...

Trail User:

Unless and until Mr. Peterson wants to talk about what is happening on his Malan's property or what his current plans for it are [and clearly he does not want to talk about that at the moment], the SE can ask him til' the cows come home. And it has asked him. He chose not to answer and he's under no compulsion to answer.

When he's ready to talk about the property and what's happening and his current plans, I don't think he'll have any problem at all getting press attention.

Backcountry Betty said...


When was it decided that users (even those just trying to get away from the groomed trails and into the back country as quickly as possible) would had to pay a user fee for trail grooming that really is not a benefit? Was it the RAMP committee intention to make a public area that has been used for many many winters by snowshoe users and back country skiers/snowboarders a fee for use area? I think it's great that a dedicated group of volunteers has made a wonderful cross country ski venue in Weber County through hours of donated time and public RAMP funds and other private donations.

Just don't hassle me to help subsidize your fuel and maintenance expenses. Find a better solution.

Ray said...

BB- Just answering the previous question from ET on why additional money was needed in addition to the RAMP grant. As far as I know the fee is a request and not a requirement. Hopefully nobody is being "hasseled".

ET said...

Gotta work said......2.19.09 Land Stewardship panel post:
...My snowshoe partner and I were pretty amazed to see a "ski pass required" sign posted at the parking lot this past Sunday. Required by whom? Not Weber County parks.

Upon passing and ignoring this sign -- we have snowshoes and neither need nor desire groomed trails with skate-skiers -- we were greeted by some Weber Pathways folks positioned under a tent directly in front of the groomed paths, who said we didn't have to pay the fee if we "felt OK about doing that," hinting that not paying (even if not using the trails) was akin to stiffing the volunteer trail-groomers..........

My comment about the RAMP FUNDs that allowed Ogden Nordic to buy and get volunteers to groom the North Fork trails in winter was in response to "Gotta work"'s above comment. Yes, he and his snow shoe partner were hassled by someone representing Weber Pathways.

Backcountry Betty said...

There are prominent signs around the Nordic Center entrance indicating that a pass is REQUIRED, half a dozen or so public and private donor signs along with an information board listing rates for various versions of season passes and the day rate of $5.00.

At the north entrance to the area there is signage and a locked box to deposit your $5.00. On most days, the north entrance seems to be much less utilized by the cross country crowd.

Some weekends there are volunteers from one of the pathways organizations set up at the Nordic Center entrance, talking to people and encouraging donations. I wouldn't mind paying the fee if the parking area was plowed (often times it's full of cars and snowbanks and you have to park in the residential area) and trails were actually a benefit to me- but they are not really needed to access Rodeo Ridge or Cutler Basin and I have happily been doing this long before the massive "improvements".

ET said...

The Standard Examiner taped the panel:
Ogden Outdoor Industry Panel

If you have trouble with this link, email the Standard.

I hope to get this entire panel tape on CH 17. When I do, I will email info for Rudi to post.

In my opinion, this was a wonderful panel. About 45% of the seats in the Wildcat Theater were filled. Lots of WSU students and Faculty as well as people from all over Weber County attended.

When I asked the WSU faculty member who headed up this panel IF WSU planned to make this a yearly event..........he said he did not know. Maybe they could make it yearly and in the evening. BUT still hold it at WSU so students and WSU faculty could easily attend.

Bill C. can give a report on what WCFers and Ogden townies were there besides ET and Bill C. Caril Jennings of Universe Gallery was there. Amy Wicks and Caitlin Gochnour / Ogden City Council. Several folks from the Ogden / Weber:cvb.

The SE version of this panel on this hot link may be an edited version. That is why it makes sense to get CH 17 to air the entire panel & the 1 hr of Q&A.

Although Chris Peterson was in the audience, no one of the panelists mentioned, afterwards, that he should have been invited to be ON the panel. However, the owner of PETZEL was there. And all panelists thought it was a bad oversight that HE had not been invited to be ON the panel.

If this panel is help at night and beter publicized next year, I amsure it will draw a larger crowd. Which is why it needs to be yearly.

Mary Hall / Weber Pathways reported that a master plan for all future trails in Weber County has been drawn up, in the last year or so, in conjunction with Weber County, Weber Pathways and the US Forest Service.

Curmudgeon said...


Excellent. Thanks for the post, and for the link, and for trying to get it all on Channel 17. Because it began ten minutes late --- because the Mayor arrived ten minutes late --- and because early panelists took over ten minutes to deliver their supposed-to-be five minute opening comments, those with 1 PM classes [namely, me] had to leave just as the AMER person was finishing his opening comments. I'm glad I'll be able to hear the Mayor's comments and those from the Patagonia person.

As for the not-invited. I thought it was a fine selection of panelists. And while it might be a good idea to invite Mr.Peterson or others you suggested to take part in future panels, there is a point at which a panel becomes unwieldy. Five is about the max. I prefer four myself. The larger a panel is, the more difficult it is to get cross talk going among the panelists [and I gather there was this time very little of that].

Kudoes to Prof. Bedford for organizing the meeting.

The SE has a summary story up this morning here. It's mostly a collection of quotes from the panelists' opening statements.

Bill C. said...

I congradulate Mr. Bedford for putting this together, it was a good begining, but really only scratched the surface.
Dan and I discussed the possibility of getting the Standard to host a similar event in a larger venue, possibly the Union Station, in the evening. This would provide for much more public input, and allow more time which as Curm noted, was not near adequate.
This discussion needs to seriously be advanced and broadened.
I'll hold off on my impressions of what transpired till you guys can veiw the links and form your own interpretations.
I will note, pay attention to the quote from Brian Dorsey in Schwebke's article.
At present, Peterson has done nothing to merit being part of this discussion, he has yet to offer anything official. Is he still planning on a South Tyrolean style dollhouse replica, serviced by an excrement transporting gondola and an eight hundred foot side slope for skiing?

ET said...

I did my best to email info on this panel to get people there. Not just post article on WCF.

I talked with Daniel Bdeford of WSU at end of panel. I asked him if he will make this panel a yearly event. He said it had been a lot of work for him. I do not know who helped him. Clearly to get him to do it for next year, he will need more help than he got this year.

Since many people on WSU complained that the time was not good for them to attend, I suggsted to Prof. Bedford that he schedule the panel NEXT year at WSU, slightly bigger evnue, in evening. Be prepared for Q/A part of panel to go for at least 1.5 hrs. This Q/A went for about 45 min.

Keeping the Panel @ WAS allows more faculty and students to be involved. And for more faculty to demand that their students attend. As I mentioned above, one professor came and sat with his class on Environmental Studies. Both this WSU Prof and one of his students asked very interesting questions. Moving the panel to Union Station might preclude WSU student and faculty attendance.

Once a Panel / Event becomes yearly, people who missed the first one will come to the next ones.

Curm........why not contact PROF Bedford and find out how to help him with next years panel. I have already sent out a request for help to people on my email base who work at WSU.

ET said...

correction..............(RUDI....why can't I do a live corection? SLC TRIB lets posters do that).....

Keeping the Panel @ WAS ====

Keeping panel @ WSU

ET said...

Thank you Terry for this informative email. I am posting it here because I KNOW RUDI will do a good job of archiving it!!!

"Just a couple clarifications.

The Swanson’s Environmental Center is managed by Dave Jenkins. He is an employee of the Weber School District. Dave also is a volunteer for Ogden Nordic and Manages our trail grooming. He is a tremendous asset to the school district and to ONordic. The snowshoes and skis you saw are the property of either the Swanson Foundation or the school district and not O Nordic.

However, O. Nordic has been working with the USFS to move a Forest Product Demonstration building to the south gate to serve as a warming hut and potential Gear rental hut. The USFS will give us the building, but we need to find a sponsor to help pay moving expenses and build the foundation.

Ogden Nordic does not have any paid staff, but has an agreement with the county that allow us to groom Northfork Park for the public. ONordic does not get any help from the county or state to groom. So, we have to raise the money from corporate and private donations, such as the Weber Pathways donation, and trail head donations. The RAMP ordinance precludes uses relating to Operating Expenses. So, RAMP funding for fuel and gas are not possible.

Our grooming expenses are about $5,500 and we need to put away about $3,000 annually to save for grooming equipment replacement. Our Porta Johns and signs, trail maps, etc bring our annual need (Budget) to $10,000.

We also own and operate two Snow Mobiles with Ginzu grooming drags that we raised money for. So far, we have raised about $40K outside of the RAMP grant and are in our 8th year of grooming.

Again we are looking for feedback so please let us know what you hear.

Terry Davis
President, Ogden Nordic..."

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