Sunday, September 12, 2010

Trentelman Chimes in On Widening Harrison Boulevard

His solution to the traffic mess is right on the money, too

By Curmudgeon

Charlie Trentelman has a potpourri Wasatch Rambler column in this morning's SE, which includes comment on UDOT's considering widening Harrison Blvd to 7 lanes [it's now 5 wide]. Here's a taste:
Now is the time to loudly protest the idea the Wasatch Front Regional Council is kicking around of widening Harrison Boulevard from five lanes to seven. Why not nine? Or 11? This will hurt efforts to revive Ogden by widening the physical and social divide between central city and the benches. It will force expensive removal of homes and businesses. It will cost billions of dollars and if Riverdale is any indication, it won't speed up traffic anyway.
And his solution to the traffic mess is right on the money, too. His full comment on this is well worth a read.

21 comments:

oldguy said...

Charlie T. does come up with some real good stuff. One other problem with this widening idea is that it would undoubtedly put the mass transit corridor on the back burner - so far back that we probably would never hear about it again.

Monotreme said...

Looking at the lack of retail between 42nd and 46th on Harrison, it occurs to me that transit-oriented development in this area would be a much-needed boost.

That close to both Weber State and McKay-Dee, there should be restaurants and small shops, not an empty lot (owned by the Chamber of Commerce head) with a rotating hot tub display.

I believe transit, not widening Harrison, could make that sort of development happen.

OgdenLover said...

In addition to public transit instead of widening roads, how about a dose of zero population growth? I realize that ZPG is heretical around here, but our planet can support only so many people. We are already shortening our and our children's lives with bad air.

ozboy said...

OgdenLover

Reminds me of the old joke about every body who supports abortion has already been born!

I do agree with you however.

Boss Hog said...

@ OgdenLover & ozboy: The old Antinatalism argument! Really? You two are complete idiots. Maybe you two should not have been born, you too are taking up valuable resources. Very scary to live in a world where talking heads at our state institutions have burped this garbage train of thought onto our society trying to get an education up on the hill.

Monotreme said...

@Boss Hog:

Way to go. You sure showed them with your cogent, well-reasoned counter-argument.

Boss Hog said...

Lick your pus, Monotreme, pretty boy.

Rock Ozwell said...

Pretty nasty stuff so far; and the debate has just begun. I think there's retail between 42nd nad 46th, on Harrison, isn't there, or am I seeing things when I drive by that area and the shops at Harrison Depot? I suppose one could come to the conclussion that the corner lot, that once housed Subway, is vacant because of a transit problem, along with the fact that it's owned by the head of the Ogden/Weber Chamber of Commerce, but I don't know how one did (ah, yes, it's the 30 some years working in the health care field that has qualified old Monotreme to make such assertions-silly me).

Anyhow, widen Harrison, relieve the congestion, allow a "transit" system to get a foothold then evolve, and finally, let SOMEBODY do SOMETHING in this town without constantly hammering away with so damn much criticism.

Curmudgeon said...

Rock:

You wrote: "finally, let SOMEBODY do SOMETHING in this town without constantly hammering away with so damn much criticism."

The problem with that approach --- let's do something, anything -- is that it can lead to some very bad decisions. Without "all that criticism," we'd likely now have a hugely expensive flatland gondola [publicly financed and operated] connecting downtown to Weber State, and we'd have much of Mt. Ogden Park covered by half built vacation villas. [There are many half built such developments that came to a screeching halt when the bottom fell out of the market.]

And it's not as if Ogden and the Administration has done nothing. It back Frontrunner, for example [against much criticism from tax hawks]. It's supported significant improvement of the Ogden trails system. It approved The Junction, which has not worked out as expected. It approved the River Project, which is moribund and created not the mixed use condo/apartment/business bonanza that was expected, but an urban abandoned slum eight years down the road from the beginning, with the city debating how best to raze it and who will pay.

Criticism of proposed public projects, provided it's sound and reasoned, plays not only a useful, but an important, role in the governance of any city.

blackrulon said...

Rock-I am at a loss to understand why you are so angry at citizens of this fair City expressing their opinions. A open exchange of ideas and goals should be the goal of everyone. If the ideas and goals arwe worthy and pass scrunity they are embraced and accepted. The attack on citizen involvement seeems counter to American ideals.

Dave said...

Curm & BlackRulon

You are jousting with a person of very limited intelligence. That activity really doesn't have much future as he is too dumb to really get what anyone here writes anyway.

Mono had his number on the last series of inanities he came forth with, which of course is why he (Rock Ozwell, Billy Jack, etc) is now taking shots at Mono.

The guy is a loser and the best thing is to ignore him. He does just fine making a fool of himself by himself, he doesn't really need any outside help. Rock/Billy has years of practice from being dead weight at the Standard holding a job there only because of family connections, to his many years of substance abuse and onto more recent embarrassments including a very short stint in elected office.

Boss Hog said...

@ Curm Yawn! Why do your posts drag on sooo long. Try to keep the twitter character rules buddy, or something. Oh Umm, I forgot you and Shroeder are some of those antinatalism preaching, pontificating leaches off of the taxpayer so called professors types.

Marion said...

Boss Hog - each post you make only enforces the notion that you are ignorant and stupid as well.

Do you ever have anything intelligent to write? Is your mind really this juvenile and silly?

Monotreme said...

Dear Blaine Carl Billy Jack Rock Ozwell,

What's this I spy with my wandering eye?

Looks like a lot of empty retail space to me. Hollywood Video has gone belly up, and the large department store sized building next to it has been vacant over 5 years. Next door is a check cashing business that seems to be thriving.

Across the street is not much better.

You don't need 30 years of experience in health care to see what's manifest to anyone's eyes. What you have been doing is not working. Try something new, or get out of the way.

Dave said...

It will be interesting to see if BlainCarlBillyJackRockOzwell will raise his empty head and reply now that he has been outed. Never underestimate a fool.

Rock said...

It's not anger, Black, just a differing view and a question of why all the bitching over basically the same old stuff?

Mono, the lot on 42nd and Harrison is "AVAILABLE." Let's see if you or you pal Dave, Letters to the Editor (yawn) Smith has the stones to maybe acquire said lot, put up a business and help out Ogden with some revenue production. Damned the widdening of Harrison, ride to the sound of opportunity.

Intersting, but sad, that anyone who posts a dissenting comment on the blog is accused of being the former councilman and then disparaged with the same old boring crap by this idiot Dave who couldn't even convince the Council to let him serve. And he used the former councilman's platform as his platform. Yeah, a dumb guy won the election and a smart guy is writing slurs because he couldn't make it to the CC himself. Hmmm.

Dave said...

Hot flash for you Bill,Rock,Billy, etc, etc. I am not David S. who also posts here on occasion. I am however some one who has known about you since you worked at the Standard, or perhaps I should say was paid by the Standard to take up empty space only because your dad was a foreman there and his family were part owners. You were a phony and vacuous poser then and you still are.

Ozboy said...

Rock

You wrote:
"Intersting, but sad, that anyone who posts a dissenting comment on the blog is accused of being the former councilman and then disparaged with the same old boring crap by this idiot Dave who couldn't even convince the Council to let him serve"

I think there are two things wrong with this statement. First - it is very seldom that a dissenting comment on this blog is attributed to the "former councilman" who I assume by that you mean Mr. Glassman. In fact it appears that it is only "Dave" who is making that connection and then only on this thread lately, as far as I recall. "Dave" hasn't actually identified Mr. Glassman by name although he has hinted at it, but it is your post that seems to tie that together.

I also think you may be wrong in mixing up "Dave" with David Smith who had put his name in to succeed Mr. Glassman when he resigned from the council. I doubt very much if they are one and the same. From what I know about Mr. Smith, the "Dave" comments just don't seem to be his style. I believe he is much too intelligent and civil to make this kind of ad hominem attack. He certainly is not an "idiot" as you assert, and in fact I think he would make an extremely good choice as mayor if he could be convinced to run for it.

Also as it pertains to Mr. Smith, you might recall that the council that choose Mr. Glassman's replacement was still pretty much under the sway of the mayor and they were not likely to choose a replacement who was standing on the same platform Mr. Glassman had won the seat with. That platform was very much anti mayor which of course is why he won in the first place. The pro mayor council instead chose Mrs. VanHooser as a safe place holder for that council seat. They, and the mayor, of course were pretty surprised when she turned out to not be a push over for the mayor like everyone expected.

There was a very large number of people who applied for that council seat, and I think your characterization of the circumstances around Mr. Smith not getting it are a bit misleading.

Rock said...

Ozboy, a fair assemsment and I defer to you. As for my quoted sentence, it was aimed at this Dave clown who, whenever there is a dissenting view from this blog's norm, attributes it to Blaine, Billy Jack, Rock, Glassman, etc. I do have to stand by my premise that the he guy is an idiot, for the Glassman I know isn't the same guy that this clown portrays.

Rock said...

Just a couple of other things before moving on:

1-if you look back to "Older Posts" you'll see where names like Rock, Billy Jack and Blaine Carl are all lumped into being one and the same and are credited to being the former councilman, by many, including Monotreme and others whose views are generally unbiased, even on this thread;

2-the "replacement council" consisted of Garcia, Wicks, and Jeske, all sworn anti-Godfreyites; Safsten and Stephensen, pro-Godfrey, and fence sitter Stevens, making the vote 3-2-1 even, in favor of Godfrey, at best.

If this jealous slander monger is not David Smith, then my apologies to him.

Anway, ancient history and off the subject of to widen or not to widen Harrison. The occupied store fronts in that specific area do outdistance the unoccupied about 8 to 1, and I suspect Hollywood Videos corporate hit men closed down the video tore due more to Net-flix and the like than to the condition of Harrison Blvd.

Ozboy said...

Rock

You are correct in your assessment of the council after Glassman left.

My take on the deal is that Stevens was quite new on the council and had not found his legs yet and therefore was most likely neutral in those deliberations. Jeske was also new, but as you pointed out was pretty anti Godfrey. (Jeske, Glassman and Stevens were all elected after taking strong positions vis-a-vis shining a light on Godfrey and his lack of integrity and competence).

I think VanHooser was a safe compromise for both sides when they picked her. I also believe that every one was very surprised that she was as strong a personality as she was as both sides thought she might be a push over for them. Otherwise the Godfreyites would have never gone along with appointing her. The whole thing had the potential for a stalemate and David Smith, with his vow to carry forth with Glassman's postions, was unacceptable to the confirmed Godfreyites and that was one reason he wasn't selected.

As you recall, there were a lot of candidates for the position including some with very strong positions and attitudes including the retired Admiral and Hunter the former politico. Any one of them could have precipitated a stalemate so they picked the retired school teacher who every one assumed would be a pussy cat and non factor. Boy were they surprised when she showed the power and integrity that she did!

It is really too bad that VanHooser didn't win the mayor race. I believe she would be a lot better for Ogden than Godfrey. I personally believe she could have won that very close race had she not been so nice and civil, and had she elected to come on stronger and expose Godfrey for the dishonest and incompetent boob that he is. Playing nice in Ogden elections usually don't get you a win as Godfrey has proven three times now.

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