Our very most-favorite Std-Ex reporter puts national politics on the Weber County Forum discussion front-burner
It was something of a disappointment for us early this morning, as we dashed out to the front porch to fetch this morning's hard copy edition of the Standard-Examiner. Hoping to find the latest installment of Scott Schwebke revelations, concerning Boss Godfrey's secret Mount Ogden Golf Course Committee, we unfortunately came up dry.
Our Ace Reporter did provide a worthy front page story this morning, however. It seems that Mr. Schwebke has now received a higher Std-Ex calling. Mr. Schwebke has apparently been dispatched to Denver, to report on the final day of the Democratic Party National Convention. For those readers like your blogmeister, who hang on Scott Schwebke's every word, be sure to read this morning's Scott Schwebke story, together with the accompanying news wire companion piece:
• "Davis Dems: Obama's oration courageous"
• "Democrats get lift from convention; now it’s Republicans’ turn to soar"
Each of these above articles refer to Democratic Party nominee Barack Obama's rousing acceptance speech of last night. It was one danged fine speech indeed. For those who missed it, be sure to check out the Huffington Post website, for a triple-threat combo including the full video, the written text, and some useful editorial/reader analyisis:
• "Barack Obama Democratic Convention Speech"
And while we're on the topic of national politics, there's also news from the Republican camp. Mitt Romney is out, as a possible John McCain V.P. pick:
• "McCain picks Palin as running mate"
We can hear the sound of champagne corks popping in Democratic Party campaign offices all across the State of Utah.
Let's hear it from our gentle readers.
What did you think of Obama's speech? Will it give the Democrats a big bump in the polls? Was last night's Democratic party extravaganza evidence of true reconciliation between the Obama and Hillary factions? Does McCain's V.P. pick signal a GOP abandonment of the "center" of the American electorate, and a capitulation to "social conservatives" (and various other GOP wing-nut extremists?) Will the selection of a female GOP V.P. candidate soak up the votes of a substantial number of still disaffected Hillaryites? Did John McCain play it smart by picking a female running mate... or is McCain just plain nuts?
So many questions... so few answers...
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50 comments:
Gotta give McCain credit for one talent: He certainly has an eye for "hotties".
He's chosen to place one heart beat [and a 72 year old heart beat at that] away from the leadership of the free world a woman who two years ago was the part time mayor of a small town of 9,000 and who has less than two years in office as the governor of Alaska. Her views on foreign affairs and defense are wholly unknown except for the fact that she's gone on record noting that Alaska is almost right next to Russia. Seems to me McCain has just abandoned any argument he might have made that experience [i.e. time in grade] must be the major consideration in choosing someone for the office of president.
She is also a creationist and thinks creationism should be taught in Alaska's public school science classes. And she's involved in her own scandal --- you can't swing a cat these days without hitting an Alaska Republican either under investigation or indictment it seems. She's being investigated for tryingg to fire a state trooper involved in a messy divorce proceeding with a relative of hers. And of firing the trooper's boss when the boss refused to fire the trooper. Troopergate, Alaska style. Ah, now there's Chaney... opps, excuse me, I meant of course McCain... family values at work.
Gees Curm, Are you on immediate distribution for Democratic talking points?
Amazing!
McCain "done good". Just admit it.
I saw John McCain's VP candidate pick. Alaska Governor on the TeeVee today. Not only is she drop dead gorgeous, her brain eclipses her remarkable "physical attributes."
I listened to her speech this morning.
She's smarter than Hillary; and of course "better looking."
Kinda like comparing the aesthetics of hourglass with a Bartlett Pear, if you take my meaning, aesthetics-wise, methinks.
And it would seem that Ms. Palin's already starting to contol the GOP information flow. She's articulate enough to control the rhetoric of the McCain Election Committee already.
The downside... She's a Universty of Idaho grad, A journalist by training, unschooled in science, who somehow believes in the the wholly bogus "Intellegent Design" argument.
I'll still vote for her however...
Because she's HOT!
McCain "done good"???
What's so good about choosing someone with no experience?
Picking the VP is the first big decision of the next President. Who do you think is the better choice as a Vice President - Joe Biden or Sarah Palin?
MM:
Those comments are mostly from what I sent my son late last night when the selection was known, before Dem talking points appeared from the campaign. [Exception: her stint as part time mayor of small town two years ago.] The points seem kind of obvious, MM.
Please note, it's McCain who'se been arguing that experience [time in grade] is an essential quality in a president, and especially experience in foreign affairs and national defense. It's Obama who'se been arguing that judgment matters considerably more. Given McCain's argument to date, his appointing a VP candidate who was a small town mayor two years ago and has less than two years experience as governor of Alaska with no known experience in [or even opinions on] defense and foreign affairs seems plainly to undermine his own argument. Unless he wants to argue that it is not important that a VP be ready to step into the main job immediately should the need arise.
If he wants to argue, as I assume he will, that she has great judgment, that's fine. But then he cannot reasonably continue with his "experience matters" argument contra Sen. Obama. Even in politics, MM, what's sauce for the goose should be sauce for the gander.
And if "hotness" was ALL that mattered, Michelle Obama would be the nominee of both parties....
I'll go for Sarah!
With this pick, McCain already has my vote!
As Curmudgeon wisely pointed out, "experience" is no longer an issue in the 2008 presidential campaign. This dopey attack theme didn't work for Hillary; nor will it work for DemocRATS with assaults their on the Alaska Governor VP choice.
"Palin for Vice President!" sez me.
Any body but Bush & Chaney.
And I literally mean ANYBODY!
(except of course our own little piece-O-shit mongrel on nine)
I think the two parties are pretty evenly balanced with this pick. On the one hand you have the demo's with a young in-experienced candidate at the top of the ticket and one heart beat away an old political hack; and on the other hand we have the old political hack at the top with the young inexperienced one in the second seat.
With the dems we are guaranteed inexperience if they win and with the repubs we only get the inexperience if the old fart dies.
In any event it shapes up as a pretty piss poor choice between the two parties.
I therefore nominate my dogs as a viable alternative. At least we know they won't lie to us all the time like the current choices are guaranteed to do.
Dont follow leaders
Watch the parkin meters
viktor:
You are assuming that experience is the key determinant, or should be, in picking a president. I'd remind you that we have elected many very experienced presidents with disastrous consequences. [Richard Nixon's re-election slogan was "Experience Counts!"] And many in-experienced candidates who turned out to be among the greatest. [A. Lincoln for example.]
Seems to me, demonstrated good judgment, demonstrated independence [i.e. not a party hack], demonstrated sound grasp of what ethical conduct requires of an elected official, and commitment [that is, a record of commitment, not election eve conversions] to sound ideas matter a good deal more than merely time in grade. If time in grade was all that mattered, Strom Thurmond would have been president long ago....
Curm, RE "We have elected many in-experienced candidates who turned out to be among the greatest. [A. Lincoln, for example]."
Wonder why you had to go back all the way to ole Abe? I agree Abe Lincoln was a fantastic leader and a "man for all seasons". But I thought he was a (R)?
Could it be that John F. Kennedy (D), highly touted as a "great President" by Democrats, disgraced the office of President and the White House by bad decision making? "Bay of Pigs" for example. He created the Cubian missile crisis by just being the weak dork phalandering jerk he was. With his brothers; Bobby and Ted, turned the most important national landmark, the White House, into a whore house. Camelot my arse!! And then there was "Peanuts" Jimmy Carter (D), whose inexperience and liberal leanings almost sunk America (something about gas shortage lines, 18% interest rates, and an "energy policy" of bricks in toilets and federal thermostats set at 55 degrees (millions brought in electric space heaters, which consumed ten times the energy his policy was design to save). And most recently, two term "Slick Willy", who tried his level best to top the Kennedys, a cad and self serving ass wipe, who disrespected our military, and like Kennedy, his incompetance and self serving created the Islamic Terriorist threat we have faced and will continue to have to clean up worldwide for the next decade.
Sorry Curm, but "the hottie" has more executive experience in her mere 18 months as Governor, let alone as a small town of 9,000 Mayor, than Barack Obama has in his entire lifetime.
John McCain has more character, integrity, and respect for the American people and is at least ten times the man Obama is or will ever be.
And McCain's pick as VP is exactly what is needed to battle all the forces of the entrenched bottom feeders in the DC Beltway.
You surely must know all this. But I respect your right to either play the devil's advocate or just amuse yourself by parcing logic and playing word games. You, Dr. "Curm" are a very fine man, and we are entertained by your debate, but unmoved to support or vote for more of what Kennedy, Carter, and/or Clinton have brought to the highest and most respected office in the Land, if not the world.
If only the Democrats could ever find a decent and qualified person...
MM
There's inexperienced and there's inexperienced.
Obama has spent the last 4 years preparing to become president, and making his qualifications and his views on national and international issues known to the American public.
Palin now has 2 months to do the same.
Rubbish!
Obama spent 4 years was it "wasting his time" lying (or laying) around Harlem, rooming with a drug dude. Hmmm?
Now that's preparation for the Presidency?
And of course there is his associations with the Rev. and the Weather under ground domestic terriorist group founder and leader or whoever that bombed what? Oh, and fact is... he had a very long term cozy political relationship with an Federally indicted criminal. Even got help buying his million dollar house from Rizzo or whatever the heck his name is... Hmmm
And there is still much to learn about Mr. Obama, that the mainstream media has not reported nor pursued. Obama is a mouthpiece only and a very empty suit. As for his wife, the media would have us believe she quit working for a large law firm to work for the poor and down trodden. Only, fact is she "earned" more than $300,000 a year working for the disenfranchised and poor of Chicago. A little fact the news media likes to not report. And I would guess there is much much more under Chicago political rocks. It is the legendary corruption capital of Illinois, if not the entire Country, under Mayor Daily and his machine, handed over to his son now. Oh! And did I mention they are all Democrats?!
Come on let's keep things in real "Perspective" here...
minor machman:
Pardon me if I'm mistaken, but I believe Obama has spent the last 4 years in the United States Senate, which deals on a regular basis with national and international issues. Among other assignments he has served on the Foreign Relations committee.
Palin has served for 2 years as governor of a state with one-fourth the population of Utah.
Ah MM... You are a true Republican. Constantly changing the goal posts and the basis of your argument, hoping no one will notice. Nice try, but no sale.
Where to begin.... How about here. You wrote:
Sorry Curm, but "the hottie" has more executive experience in her mere 18 months as Governor, let alone as a small town of 9,000 Mayor, than Barack Obama has in his entire lifetime. OK, but then, were you not a Republican desperately changing the goalposts mid play, you'd have to point out that she has more administrative experience than John McCain does too. Somehow, you didn't.
Suddenly, when it comes to McCain, you forget experience [just touted by you as oh so important], and try to argue instead that what matters more is
"character, integrity, and respect for the American people?" and being "at least ten times the man Obama is or will ever be" --- whatever that means.
Well, you want to talk character and integrity," fine. We can talk about McCain's being one of the Keating Five. We can talk about McCain then swearing he never intervened for a businessman supporter again... only to have several letters he wrote to federal agencies AFTER the Keating five scandal, to agencies to help his business and lobbiest supporters. You want to talk integrity and respect for the public, we can discuss McCain's denouncing Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy as fiscal idiocy, and now his proposing to continue and even extend them, while the federal deficit and debt metastasizes by the day. We can discuss McCain suddenly [when he decided he needed the yahoo Christian right] endorsing creationism being taught as science in the schools. You bring up Slick Willie? Fine, let's talk about McCain's achieving the American Dream, which in his case means having an affair with a much younger woman while married to his wife of a quarter century... who stood loyally by him while he was a POW... and then divorcing the wife to marry his chickie on the side who just happened to have 200 million dollars to finance every campaign for the rest of his life. A real "family values" kinda guy. Respect for the American people? Give me a break. Want to talk more Slick Willie, do you, being a classless sort of guy? And then you want to hold up McCain, who couldn't keep his zipper sipped either, and who ended his marraige to marry his mistress? You want to talk "being a man" and "character," you better find someone else to champion than McCain.
Funny, you nail Carter for runing the economy, but when it comes to Clinton, all of a sudden, you don't want to talk economy... there go those goal posts again. I can certainly understand why. Clinton ends his term with a surplus. Clinton was the only modern president who has balanced a budget in office. But somehow, you only want to talk economy with Carter, not with Clinton. And you certainly don't want to discuss morality and sexual probity in re: Carter, do you... only Slick Willy.
Ah, MM, McCain was once an honorable man. But he ceased being so when the presidential bug bit him. He's renounced very nearly every major policy position he took while he built a reputation... at one time justified... as a maverick and sane Republican. When he decided he had to snuggle up to the neo cons to get the nomination, he threw all that over the side.. fiscal conservatism especially. He is, I'm sad to say, no longer one tenth the man he used to be [to use your terms].
You want to debate McCain vs Obama with respect to integrity, policy positions, character without constantly trying to change the terms of the debate, fine with me. But somehow, I doubt you want to do that.
Finally, if you insist on portraying the Republican Party of the US Senate as the Party of "men" and "character" and "integrity" and "family values," permit me to gently remind you that it isn't the Democratic Senate Caucus that had a senator caught hiring prostitutes to dress him up in diapers and treat him as an infant, that greeted his return to the senate with a standing ovation. That was the Republican Senate Caucus greeting the Hon. [Sen] Vitter upon his return.
But all of that is distraction. I know why you, and McCain, will try your damndest too keep the distractions center stage. ANYTHING to keep people from focusing on the disastrous record of the Bush Chaney Republican administration... economically [national debt and deficits of record proportions, real income of middle class and poor working people DOWN over the last seven years, smallest number of jobs created annually or overall during a recovery in modern history, etc.], on defense [a needless war invading a nation that had not attacked us to destroy weapons of mass destruction that did not exist --- 4K dead service men and women and counting, and 25K seriously wounded or maimed for life], on foreign affairs [Russia thumbing its nose at us, American power and prestige and influence on the wane world wide, US diplomatic isolation, etc etc etc.] Damn right you don't want this election focused on issues and performance. You're toast if it is.
It's nice to know that Godfrey has accomplished one thing -- it doesn't matter whether you're a Dem or a Republican, he's united you against him and his nightmare developments!
Rudi, how about offering an explanation on the real gop issue here at home. You know, the one about how Mormans aren't acceptable to the nationwide gop but for their sheepish like following lock step with the party they're allowed to have their theocracy under the gop banner here at home. Now that romney has been told he's unacceptable for the party ticket, Do you think there's a chance that this local theocracy will fracture?
Uh oh... It looks like Ms. Palin is in fact a Godfrey Republican:
Sarah Palin left the finances of her town Wasilla in tatters when she moved on in 2002 (h/t xgz). She wanted a legacy as mayor, it seems, and pushed hard for the town to build a hyper-expensive sports complex. But Palin screwed the process up badly. Instead of buying the land for the complex when it was offered, her administration allowed a developer named Gary Lundgren to snap it up. Then Wasilla tried to seize the land from Lundgren through eminent domain. In the end, what with court costs Wasilla paid at least $ 1.7 million for land it could have bought for less than one tenth that sum - if the purchase had been handled properly. For this incompetence, Wasilla is still paying a steep price: higher taxes and cutbacks in services.
Palin's former town cutting library construction and other services to pay of hundreds of thousands of dollars to the developer she let buy the sports complex land, and who she then tried to use eminent domain on. Local newspaper has the story of the town's trying to deal with the financial wreckage of its budget that resulted here.
Ahhh. Curm.... Nice to get your dander up and blood/ink flowing. All this talk about goal posts moving and such. Is your rant "nuance" or "obfuscation"?
I respect your opinions, but question the veracity of the negative claims about McCain. He surely agrees that his biggest and most regrettable mistake in life was the failure of his first marraige (re Saddleback Interview).
As for the Keating five, what with all the democratic demogogery and investigations, can you explain why McCain was never indicted? If what you say is true, surely he would have served time.
Now Clinton...the blue dress, lies, inappropriate behavior? Rape. The democratic icon Ted Kennedy, and Mary Jo Kopeckne? Bobby and John and the boys with free flowing whores in and out of the White House. ooops! I'm moving the goalpost again...whatever that is supposed to mean? Ahh hell... "Boys will be boys!" right?
Your point was simply inexperience doesn't always matter. My point was, no but it is a good indicator of what we can expect. And if the last three democratic presidents were inexperienced in executive decision making (or incompetant in Clinton and Carter's cases) then character is important. Carter had/has character where the Kennedys and Clintons did/do not. So character is not enough, you are right about that.
But at least for me..."experience" is nothing more than having had the opportunity to screw something up and having the ability to learn from it. McCain shows me he is capable of screwing up and learning from it. While Obama is showing us that he can not admit to having ever been wrong or screwing anything up, other than being mentored by the good Reverand Wright for 20 years. He still can not admit his relationship with the radical domestic terriorist or the indicted for fraud federal criminal was a mistake. So how does that show he is capable of "experience" (at least the way I personally define it).
Others may well join in the tears of adoration from just listening to Obama rhetorec using the Rev's. mentored style.
I am not "moved" by vague and non specific BS. Others apparently are, just as another guy moved millions to do unspeakable inhuman things, and who turned out to be the most infamous villian in world history. He died and a bunker near the end of WWII.
No, I just want to judge people not by the color of their skin, but by the CONTENT OF THEIR CHARACTER. Hmmmm?
The man is an "empty suit", and apparently one with a "Jesus complex", unable to discern between even the most basic and common sense notions of right and wrong. I so far have found the content of Obama's character to be of the narcistic and self serving variety. He has accomplished nothing so far, except to inspire people to want "change". And he means, he probably wants all your "change", down to the very last cent.
But I will never convince you or any rabid big "D" brand reader of this blog. Not so long as the GOP runs this State in such a corrupt and vile way. Hell, Curm...even I am going to vote Democratic in Utah in order to get rid of the GOP incumbent majority who only pose as "Republicians". This has to be the only State where you must vote Democratic in order to get traditional "Republican" conservative values.
Obama, seems to think he is a Savior, and apparently is showing signs of a "Jesus complex". He doesn't regret any of the bad judgments and bad decisions he has made apparently. I'm sure you will correct me if I'm wrong.
No, I am not a republican...nor a democrat for that matter. Neither political party seems to satisfy my personal standards.
It always seems to come down to "having to choose between the least of two evils." And so far McCain's shortcomings list seems far shorter than Obama's list even though McCain is 72 years old and Obama is only what - 46?
As a student of economics and politics, you surely must know that there is a significant lag between presidential influence, via mostly the "bully pulpit", and economic conditions, either good or bad. Clinton was a lousy Arkansas Governor, failed on his second attempt, and a lousy President. He merely rode the crest of the wave from a Republican controlled Congress.
I am from Arkansas, and we attended different schools together. He should be behind bars, jail bars - not gold bars. But that's my and most of the population of his home State's opinion. You have every right to think otherwise. Do so at your own peril. MM
John McCain's choice of this woman as his running mate proves that he does not just have the beginnings of senility - he has a full blown case of senior citizen alzheimers.
It's okay John can pick anyone he wants to, the elders of the church will instruct their wives to vote for him at all costs, even though they think women are an inferior breed. Just ask Lying Little Mattt Godfrey.
GOP presidential politics have sickened me for the last few elections.
The latest decision by John M McCain to choose Gov. Palin as his running mate is the last straw.
This is an insult to 300 million Americans for him to tell us that she is qualified to become commander-in-chief in the event of his death.
Does she even have a college degree and if she does what area is it in?
This is an insult to me as a registered voter for John McCain to ask me to vote for such a neophyte.
Thinking women will not vote for this team. The Governor is a hard core right wing anti-abortion Republican even in cases of rape and incest.
She certainly does not represent me and I have been a lifelong Republican.
McCain must be desperate.
This is great.
By selecting Palin as his running mate John McCain is telling us that he does not have the common sense to be commander-in-chief himself.
In stead of playing games McCain needs to be figuring out what he is going to do about the financial crisis facing all of us and tell us what his solutions are - what he is going to do about the breakdown in our border security - what he is going to do about our trade treaties and policies.
Does he really think he is being cute and coy by selecting Sarah Palin to run with him.
I do not personally feel that I can be proud for my country to have this hockey mom as the Vice-President.
It appears she is already embroiled in an political tussle in Alaska concerning getting someone fired. The air needs to be cleared on that issue.
Incredible choice.
Ah, MM. You have become a veritable cornucopia of double standards. Clinton cats around on his spouse, and its evidence of moral failure and lack of character. McCain cats around on his spouse, and we should all be understanding because the marriage was a mistake, so sleeping with someone not his spouse wasn't really adultery. Why, there's a standard Jimmy Swaggert, Eliot Spitzer, Newt Gingrich, John Edwards, Sen. Vitter and John McCain could all happily embrace.
My own view is, both matters are personal and none of the public's business. I don't care if McCain slept with the entire Capital staff, both sexes, nor do I care if Clinton slept with the entire University of Arkansas Marching Band, both sexes. What matters is how well they perform their jobs. We didn't hire Clinton to be husband of the year, and McCain is not running for that job either. But if you want to apply a sexual moral calculus to Clinton to judge his fitness for office, then you have to apply the same standard to McCain.
And comparing Clinton's management of the economy with Bush's, and Clinton's management of our intervention in the Balkans with Bush's in Iraq --- applauded and supported from the git-go by McCain, remember --- you're not selling me on Clinton's "incompetence."
And then this: As for the Keating five, what with all the democratic demagoguery and investigations, can you explain why McCain was never indicted? If what you say is true, surely he would have served time.
Now Clinton...Rape.
Curious. We should ignore the Keating Five scandal in which McCain was involved because he was not indicted or convicted. Presumption of innocence? OK. I'm cool with that. But you're perfectly willing to accuse Clinton of rape and consider it fact. I don't seem to recall that he was indicted for rape, or convicted. But somehow, the standard you want to apply to McCain you don't want to apply to Clinton.
And following that, MM, you seem to be channeling Dr. Phil: "The man [Obama] is an "empty suit", and apparently one with a "Jesus complex".
Ah well. As for learning from mistakes, I believe Mr. McCain still insists the disastrous invasion of Iraq was a very good idea, and absolutely the right thing to have done. His inability to learn on a matter of such importance... peace vs. war... some might suggest is proof positive of his unfitness for the Oval office.
Enjoyed the exchange, MM. Going to be an interesting two and a half months.
In checking Google about Governor Palin I learned that she is a Pentecostal Christian.
Pentecostal Christians make President George Bush's brand of christianity look tame.
Beware.
Minor, I have never been compelled to join a political party, something about their hypocrital attempts to be one size fits all, they tend to actually stand for nothing. Unfortunately there has yet to come a republican politician that could even approach my consideration. There is a reason that Nixon was their man. I don't really begrudge their self serving intentions because I'm fully aware that that's embedded in their immoral make-up.
You seem to have fallen pray to the constant stream of bull shit spewed by their network of talk radio hacks. Everything out of context and never anything close to the truth.
As far as the black panther stuff, how many years ago are we talking? Do you recall that the national guard was killing college students at the time?
Do you know that Eldridge Cleaver, one of those notorius black panthers is now a good Mormon and being used by the church in their own PR stuff?
I think you won't admit it but you've not allowed yourself to look at Obama through un-jaunticed eyes. Anyone, including any 6 year old first grader could have run this country better than what we've had for the last 8 years. On that alone I'd say we needn't consider anyone put forward by the gop. After all they've supported this whole mess all along.
thanks curm !!! i just have to much of a potty mouth to talk to mm
MM,
Please don't give up yet, it's just a flesh wound. You've only gone four rounds and you're bound to land a punch or two, eventually.
It's about time for you to throw a patriot jab. Curmudgeon will never expect that. You could follow up with a POW low blow, which would certainly be unexpected. Republicans never use that combination. Go ahead, be a maverick.
So much for my opinion that this should be a blog on local issues. I almost wish we had another Godfrey scandal to end the partisan bickering and unite us once again.
Dan:
You wrote: I almost wish we had another Godfrey scandal to end the partisan bickering and unite us once again.
Be patient. If past performance is any guide, you won't have to wait long.
Caddyshack:
MM and I disagree strongly about the presidential candidates, as anyone can see. But we've had this blog dust up without either of us accusing the other of being a traitor, a Nazi or an idiot. Somehow, however much MM and I mix it up on the campaign trial for particular candidates, I don't think that'll change. Certainly won't from my end, and I doubt very much it will from his either.
Dan, we have a long continuous scandal, nothings really changed. Lying little matty is determined to get our golf course and adjacent lands into the hands of his buddy in the remote at best dreams of getting his stupid urban gondola.
It's like sailing, the end objective is fixed but to the observer it appears that you're never really going in that direction.
Well, well, well, looks like Palin really IS a Godfrey Republican:
Politico's Glenn Thrush on spending: Palin, who portrays herself as a fiscal conservative, racked up nearly $20 million in long-term debt as mayor of the tiny town of Wasilla — that amounts to $3,000 per resident. She argues that the debt was needed to fund improvements.>
Lots of Obama supporters out there. Rabid, rampant and unfettered by facts...susceptable to rhetorec and driven to blind followings. But hey, that could apply on either side and it just must recognized and held in check.
Thanks Curm for the other side. As for others it seem they only need to practice the "Heil" salute and get out brown shirts.
"Cynicism is a poor man's wisedom".
I liked Curm's information about the Godfreyesque governance of Palin.
One thing I've noticed is that while Reagan argued that we need less government and that government is the problem, neither party today uses those ideas even for its sloganeering. They all want you to believe they will be the ones to do more FOR YOU if elected.
Bush has grown government even more than Johnson did. What we have is a choice between two big government parties. No wonder so few people vote.
A month or two ago I think Monotreme gave a link for Obama's vs McCain's voting record that almost made me take a second look at the latter.
But on immigration, McCain Feingold, Iraq, and other big issues McCain has been wrong, and his personal life is about as vile as it gets. I doubt anything could induce me to vote for such a person.
As for me, I'll probably vote Libertarian again, if I vote at all.
personally, i wish schwebke would leave the convention drival to the ap and upi and concentrate his attentions on the matters of his assignment desk; namely issues related to ogden government.
dan s. wants another godfrey scandal. in case you have forgotten there is plenty of current scandal going on if you would all stop worrying about which is the lesser of two evils for potus. mogc, the gondola, wal-mart, gahdi lesham, dave goode, scott brown, the river project, the utility projects, and the list goes on and on. none of these are dead issues and every single one is ready to reimerge into classic godfrey corruption.
you all come unraveled at the thought of the ice tower or the indoor rock climbing and wind tunnel. do you have no objection to godfrey's current list of white elephants in waiting. are you seriously okay with $7-million for a horse trail from downtown to the mouth of ogden canyon? do you want your tax dollars spent on building and mintaining a $14-million velodrome, or $18-million for an indoor bmx/skate park, or a $12-million swimming pool? those are all real projects that godfrey has announced to the city council and has his band of idiots working on. you want new scandal?
Very good points "Whatwardruin"! All politics is local, so it was said. And the list of nonsense and wasteful spending both by and proposed by the Godfrey clown, while neglecting infrastructure, is apparently what most of Ogden voted for. Go figure?
Is anyone pushing seriously for a recall petition drive to rid Ogdenites, and us surrounding boroughs to a lessor extent, from this madness? All of Weber and parts of Davis and Box Elder are effected by this insanity from Godfrey.
If it is possible to mount a recall petition or whatever to get rid of Godfrey, I would suggest all energy be spent more productively on that instead of all the gripe fests.
"If you bitch about something, you owe it to yourself (as a man or woman of character) to try to change it." Just writing vitriolic rants about the Godfrey administration is no true substitute for action. It only makes us feel like we are doing our part to try to change something without any real or true effort.
Just my two cents worth.
Oh, and "Potty mouth", four letter words are among the most communicative and effective words in the English language. Words like; love, hate, care, hope, or acronyms like SHIT (Ship High In Transit), FUCK (Fornication Under Carnal Knowledge), etc. Let'em rip, I say. But action is better and more satisfying in the long run. No double entendre intended...
Curmudgeon,
"But we've had this blog dust up without either of us accusing the other of being a traitor, a Nazi or an idiot."
Huh? WTF is your point? Who said anything about traitors, Nazi's or idiots? Only you, Curmudgeon. I was trying to inject some sarcastic humor into a political discussion. Excuse me if I failed. I guess you call yourself Curmudgeon for a reason. However, you might think about calling yourself Bludgeon when you choose to inject traitors and Nazis into a "conversation."
Minor,
Sorry if I offended you.
Mr. What ward are you in,
I think that the overall economy, the increasing subsidies needed for Godfrey's existing black holes, and the obviousness of his failures, lies, and ineptitude will increasingly insure that his scams from here on will be less likely to move forward.
With the crony for his downtown water park and motel filing bankruptcy along with the collapse of the Godfrey-loving Ben Lomond investors, with Gadi Leshem's project turned into Shack Town waiting for Bob Bennett to funnel federal money into his pocket before moving forward, with Godfrey's administration so incompetent they can't even get a WalMart, with Ashton Square gone bust and the Sal Center requiring a hundred grand a month in subsidies to keep afloat (and the list goes on), even the most ardent Godfrey-gazing idiot is becoming able to see this huckster for what he is.
But you do make a good point nonetheless.
who said i was a "mr." ?
Caddy:
Sorry, I didn't mean the comment as criticism of you. I apologize if it seemed that way. Your post just gave me an opportunity to make the point I made. Again, if you took it as a criticism of you, I apologize. It was not intended that way. Caulk it up to careless phrasing on my part.
MM:
I don't think in Utah municipal elected officials are subject to recall by petition.
you are correct curm. no recall, no impeachment.
Curmudgeon,
Thanks for clearing the air. Peace to you, my brother. How about those Utes?
Mr. Minor, many on this forum are waging a constant battle against the administrative stupidity and dishonesty thats rampant in this town. Lots of action. What some refer to as bitching and griping, including some colorful adjectives on occasion, is intended to inform and hopefully recruit others. Keeping up with full time professional crooks is hard work, and we see more success with more participants.
Actually trying to keep this administration honest is quite a high adventure activity in its own funny way. Perhaps that's what lying little matty, short deck and potato nose really mean when talk of high adventure, the thrill of getting away with something. After all, any fool can see there's no high adventure, let alone outdoor, in anything he's pulled off to date.
Mr. Curmudgeon, Minor Machman and all other partisan posters on this thread have done nothing but prove my point that my dogs would make a much better and smarter choice for President and VP.
Vote for woof and woof this November.
Sarah Palin started her political career in 1992 as a city council member and has been in politics ever since.
1992... That is Ten years before Barrack Obama ran for his first political office in the state legislature. He went from there straight into the Senate and then straight into running for president.
Now there are several things a Mayor or a Govenor have to do in politics that a legislator or a senator don't worry about... First is dealing with a Budget, second is being commander and chief of the states national guard...
(Speaking of which, Sarah Palin has made more visits to Kuwait and Iraq to visit her states troops than Obama has made his entire time in the senate... So That = more foreign policy experience than Baracks one visit to Iraq several years ago and his recent "World tour." And Sarah Palin is Govenor of a state with a population of 600,000 and Obama is one of two senators from a state with 700,000 citizens.)
So the worst you can say is they are either equally unqualified for the Job or they are equally qualified.
Last of all Obama is praised for being a "washington outsider" and talks of taking on the establishment and special interests... yet he pick an insider with Special interest baggage as his VP.
McCain may be a washington insider, but he has spent his career being a Maverick, often times ignoring or taking on his own party. He picked not only a Washington outsider as his VP, but also someone who has Fought corruption inside her state and INSIDE HER OWN PARTY! This was an excelent choice, not only for rallying the party base, but also for bringing in those individuals who realy are party independent, and look past the party attacks of inexperienced and Cheneyesqe.
It will be entertaining to say the least, watching you Dems try and paint this former beauty queen as another Dick Cheney.
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