Saturday, August 23, 2008

Fascinating New Data From Ogden's House Legislative District Nine

Leg 9 Godfreyite legislative GOP candidate surfaces with a top-notch website

Interesting info popped up via email today from House District 9 GOP candidate Jeremy Peterson's GOP campaign manager, re the Leg. 9 upcoming House District Nine legislative race, in connection with our continuing effort to fully build out our 2008 Weber County Candidate Roster. Here's GOP Leg. 9 House of Representatives challenger Jeremy Petersons's new website:

Political upstart Jeremy Peterson has now beaten the five-term incumbent Neil Hansen to the punch, with a feature-filled campaign website.

When will the incumbent Neil Hansen follow suit?

Being the curious type, BTW, and not knowing who the hell this Jeremy Peterson guy is... we googled.

Seems from state records that the Republican candidate in House Legislative District 9 (Jeremy Peterson) is a realtor, who hangs his associate broker's real estate license with an Ogden real estate company called "Terra Venture"

And who Is the agency broker for Terra Venture? This is too funny... Terra Venture's agency broker is ... strangely enough... the G-Train!

Oh my! Small world, innit?


another clue said...

It says Peterson lives in a restored home on Jefferson. So he's also a neighbor of G-Train.

danny said...

So we have Jeremy Peterson (R) who is an employee of rabid nutcase Godfreyite Sue Wilkerson, running in District 9.

And I have seen a campaign flyer for Ed "Addled" Allen (D), hardcore Godfreyite who praises the "precious character of this young man (Godfrey)", and who is running in District 10.

You see, folks, the scum floats in both parties.

In both of these races, vote for the other candidate, I say.

Otherwise you can figure Ogden's legislative team (Greiner, Peterson, Allen) will be introducing, in the next session, legislation virtually requiring Godfrey to sell the golf course, as well as any other nutty crap that Godfrey can dream up.

Yes, Greiner, Peterson, Allen - truly the Godfreyite dream team - and a nightmare for everyone else.

MM said...

Lots of questions about this Peterson guy. Graduated from WSU in 2002? Just how old is this guy? What has he done or accomplished in life? A Realtor?

YGBSM!!! Not on your life! And a Godfreyite to boot?! Fat chance...

Curmudgeon said...

Just want to note that the Terra Venture realty company still has "Lift Ogden" signs in its HQ windows. Bet Ms. Wilkerson still owns stock in The Pony Express, certain it's sure to make a comeback any day now....

lionel said...

Godfreyite indeed. The young arrogant SOB is also the one who disregarded local historic preservation ordinances and significantly adversely altered his historic home a couple years back, creating a headache for the local Landmarks Commission (the Standard Examiner had good coverage of that episode). Doesn't surprise me he's w/ the Wilkerson crowd. Appears to be another scary Republican that our Legislature is known for (he would fit right in).

Curmudgeon said...


You wrote: And I have seen a campaign flyer for Ed "Addled" Allen (D), hardcore Godfreyite who praises the "precious character of this young man (Godfrey)", and who is running in District 10.

Could you describe that Allen campaign flier a little more? The Allen campaign did a lit drop at my house today, and there is nothing remotely like what you reported in it.

It does oppose school vouchers, support access to health care for all Utahns because 300K have no health insurance and another 300K are so under-insured that "they are one serious medical problem away from financial ruin." And he supports "development and use of renewable energy sources."

Sadly, his comments on transportation are so vague as to be nearly meaningless, except that he likes Frontrunner:

We should continue to plan for future transportation needs to further our economic growth and to preserve our way of life.

That's so general it could mean anything. Most new money on roads? On public transit? On rail? Doesn't say. In fact, it's more than a little disconcerting that it doesn't mention public transit at all.

The "Transportation" section continues:

The Frontrunner provides exciting opportunities and benefits to our community; however, we need to ensure effective local connections.

What, I wonder, does "effective local connections" mean, exactly? A gondola from downtown to WSU to meet the trains? A trolley to WSU and MacKay--Dee Hopspital? Increased bus service? Again, nothing specific, and not even a specific nod at public transit in general.

The Allen lit-drop has a detachable postcard on which Mr. Allen asks voters to share their concerns about issues with him. If/when you get it at your home, might be prudent to ask about where he stands on public transit, on where he stands with respect to how resources should be divided between new highway construction and public transit enhancement, and --- specifically --- if elected, does he intend to use his position to assist Ogden's mayor in indulging his gondola obsession. All seem to be fair questions during a campaign to me.

Ask them of his opponent too.

monotreme said...

Peterson's website was apparently translated from the German: a number of Nouns, not just Proper Nouns, were capitalized for no apparent Reason. I find that Annoying.

The photo gallery was a nice touch. Both photos would make nice motel room art.

I also read with interest that crime is up in his leg district. I could swear that crime is down since Godfrey became Mayor. I know I read that somewhere.

george k said...

Danny, you said, "Greiner, Peterson, Allen - truly the Godfreyite dream team - and a nightmare for everyone else." You missed one of the Godfreyite dream team -- Scott Jenkins, Godfrey's cousin on his mother's side. He sponsored the the civil service commission legislation a couple of years ago for Godfrey after Mark Johnson drafted it. I think Godfrey is stacking the legislature so that nothing can be done about that sneaky RDA trick he pulled on the Council the last couple of hours of the Legislature last March. He is so power hungry, what else would he get changed with his own legislators there to push whatever he tells them to push. He's more dangerous than any of us ever realized.

There is one good thing -- Brent Wallis, the other candidate for that Senate seat in District 10. He was president of the Ogden-Weber Applied Technology Center since its inception and built it to what it is today. He is an exceptionally brilliant man with integrity and class. He knows better than most of the legislators how the Legislature runs.

I know both Allen and Wallis, and Wallis is ten times the man than Allen will ever be.

George k said...

Monotreme, you posted " also read with interest that crime is up in his leg district. I could swear that crime is down since Godfrey became Mayor. I know I read that somewhere." During his campaign last year, Godfrey made that statement that crime was down. Statistics say it's down in the whole state from 8 - 10 years ago. I wonder if Godfrey will try to take credit for that? Do you think it was Godfrey or the trend that affected the whole state that also decreased crime in Ogden?

August 23, 2008 9:42 PM

Oh wow man. said...

Does this Peterson guy really know what he is in for?

monotreme said...

George K:

I was being sarcastic. See this.

The numbers you mention were revised upward, quietly, after the election was over. I pointed that out to the S-E, which refuses to cover the story.

Hyad Venture said...

G-Train is right. A gondola is truly high adventure.

Get on the G-Train! (Not to be confused with the G Spot, which is also high adventure.)

Curmudgeon said...

George K:

You wrote of the Republican candidate opposing Mr. Allen for the 10th House District seat:

Brent Wallis, the other candidate for that Senate seat in District 10. He was president of the Ogden-Weber Applied Technology Center since its inception and built it to what it is today. He is an exceptionally brilliant man with integrity and class. He knows better than most of the legislators how the Legislature runs. I know both Allen and Wallis, and Wallis is ten times the man than Allen will ever be.

Quite an endorsement, but I couldn't help noticing that it contained not a single reference to any substantive issue before the voters. What's Mr. Willis' stand on school vouchers? What is he likely to want to do about the health care crisis in Utah? Where does he stand on renewable energy and pollution matters? On that and all other substantive matters, you said nothing in your endorsement.

Sorry, GK, but the fact that he's possibly a friend of yours, and you think he's brilliant and a grand guy is not enough for me to vote for him and so to swell the Republican majority in the house. That, by itself, no more convincing than, say, Mr. Kurt Geiger writing a letter saying he knows Mr. Allen and he thinks Mr. Allen is brilliant man and a grand guy all around.

Republican candidate Willis, should he be elected, will spend most of his time dealing with substantive matters that affect the daily lives of all Utahns in general and of N. Utahns in particular. He will do that as part of a right-wing Republican majority that rammed through school vouchers, that resurrected several bills that had been separately defeated, and crammed them nevertheless into a late session omnibus school bill, that passed the Developers Dream Bill... and on, and on and on. Do we have any reason to think he will, on health care, school vouchers, energy, public transit, and pollution matters and toadying to developers and realtors, not keep toeing the right wing line? You've offered us none.

As for his brilliance, which you simply declare: Not knowing the man, I'm in no position to gainsay that, but I'd merely note that what often is far more important in a man or woman in a position of power is their judgment, not their raw intelligence. Recall how the disastrous Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara was touted on his appointment as brilliant. Recall how the criminals who ran Enron into the ground and looted Californians of billions in energy overcharges were widely held to be "the smartest guys in the room."

You want to convince me to vote for Wallis, you'll have to convince me that his judgment on matters critically important to me -- pollution, renewable energy, medical care, support for public schools and public transit, etc. --- is as strong, if not stronger, than Mr. Allen's judgment on such matters, plus that Mr. Wallis is personally strong enough to resist the dictates of the wing-nut Republican House leadership. You haven't begun to do that. Nor has he.

Sorry, GK. That you know him and like him, by itself, is not enough.

It's not nearly enough.

OgdenLover said...

Even more high adventure.

george k said...

Curmudgeon, you are absolutely right. I don't know what Mr. Wallis' stand on vouchers and the other issues that you mentioned because I have not been in contact with him lately, but I have seen what he has accomplished at the ATC, and I trust his good judgement enough to feel comfortable enough to put my reputation on the line and recommend him as an outstanding candidate for the legislature. But I will find answers to your questions.

But what bothers me most is that you completely ignored my comment about how dangerous Godfrey is, evident in his efforts to have his own little cadre at the legislature with Allen (his father-in-law), Jenkins (his cousin), Greiner (his police chief), and now this Petersen guy (an admirer and supporter). Adding another person to support his bad legislation efforts is enough reason for most voters to vote against Allen.

Curmudgeon said...


Sorry, George, but the idea that Mayor Godfrey could possibly secure a significant personal following in the Utah legislature is wildly unrealistic. If every election fell "his" way, he'd have three members of the House and one in the Senate. Not enough to bring a bill to the floor, much less pass it.

However, there is substantial evidence that Godfrey, because he is a Republican, has substantial backing in the Republican leadership for his frequent toadying to the realtor and developer lobby, and that, being a Republican, he has been able to get is Republican allies in the House and Senate to adopt legislation to shelter him from Council opposition. Swelling that Republican majority still more by electing Mr. Willis seems an odd way to me to counter our Republican mayor's influence in the legislature.

Finally, GK, I'm at a loss to know how to reply to someone who says, of a candidate: "I have no idea where he stands on the issues he will face as a member of the House, but I'm for him anyway." Guess I'm just too old fashioned for that kind of voting. I'm the kind of mossback radical democrat [small "d"] that thinks issues matter, and that where a candidate stands on them matters too.

george k said...

You said, "being a Republican, he has been able to get is Republican allies in the House and Senate to adopt legislation to shelter him from Council opposition." You're totally clueless and in the dark! You're the only one who thinks that! I've talked to "Republican" legislators since that sneaky legislation passed, and so you know how secretly it was done that addition to an RDA bill which was done in the last very hectic hours of the session, was unknown to the majority of them. And it is Mr. WAllis, not WIllis who is running against Allen.

I told you that I would find out where Mr. Wallis stands on the issues, but it is clear that you have made up your mind for whom you will vote and don't want to be confused with knowing where the other candidate stands -- not smart voting.

Curmudgeon said...

George K:

Late session midnight insertions into bills cannot be carried off... not in the Utah legislature, not in the US Congress... without at least the tacit approval, and more often active cooperation, of the leadership of each house involved. If the Republican House and Senate leadership in the Utah legislature did not want to permit midnight insertions late in the session, they would not be permitted. Same goes for the US Congress, whichever party is in the majority.

As for those legislators you've talked to about the "sneaky" legislation... well, those sneaky insertions have become controversial now that they've become known. Just consider, please, at least the possibility that there's a lot of face-saving "well, my gosh, I didn't know anything about that" going on. I've seen US congressmen and senators --- both parties --- piously trying to claim, after the fact, that they were shocked, shocked! to learn there was gambling at Rick's place.

As for this: I told you that I would find out where Mr. Wallis stands on the issues, but it is clear that you have made up your mind for whom you will vote and don't want to be confused with knowing where the other candidate stands.

Well, GK., I'm not the one who said he had no idea where his candidate stood on the issues, but was for him anyway. That was you. And if that isn't a good working definition of "having made your mind up" in advance, I'd be hard put to know what one might look like.

I want, as a voter, to know where candidates stand on matters I think important. I ask no less of my own candidates than I do of those I end up opposing. I'm not happy with Mr. Allen's vagueness on public transit, and I said so. I intend to push him on the matter, and I said that. And I suggested all others who get his leaflet push him on that as well. And I suggested that every question asked of Mr. Allen by those for him, or undecided, or flat opposed, be asked of Mr. Wallis as well.

Kind of hard, GK, to say you're supporting someone whose stands on the issues you admit you don't know, and then to accuse others of having made their minds up without having the facts. I'm afraid I couldn't manage that kind of rhetorical contortion, not even in the middle of a campaign. But you did. Congratulations.

danny said...

I have to gently suggest that Curm's idea that four very hard core Godfreyites in the legislature is of little importance seems naive.

The important point is that these four would represent Ogden, and would be deferred to in matters regarding Ogden, as being the representative of the people of Ogden. Having a monolithic Godfreyite voice representing Ogden in the legislature would be a disaster, for Ogden.

Matt knows this very well. It appears his planning skills are alive and well after all.

george k said...

Curmudgeon, don't you know a person well enough to trust their judgment, their integrity and common sense to represent you without a written or spoken affirmation of their position on every issue? Well, I do and I have that trust and confidence in Mr. Wallis as I indicated when I wrote "I have seen what he has accomplished at the ATC, and I trust his good judgement enough to feel comfortable enough to put my reputation on the line and recommend him as an outstanding candidate for the legislature."

We all know how you love to portray a different opinion on just about everything. We all have the right to our own opinion. I will leave it at that and trust that you will contact Mr. Brent Wallis and ask him the same questions that you asked Mr. Allen as you suggested everyone do.

Danny, you have a great grasp on reality and I agree with your post above 100 percent.

Bill C. said...

Curm, Ed allen is a @$%^$@#!%^&*&(&^%%^^&&&. If you vote for him you'll be a !@#$%^&*^#$%^&*^%^&* by proxy.

Curmudgeon said...

George K:

Well, it would be nice, not to mention fair, if you asked me to defend what I've said, and not some exaggeration of it. For example, you wrote: "Don't you know a person well enough to trust their judgment, their integrity and common sense to represent you without a written or spoken affirmation of their position on every issue?" I didn't ask for a written affirmation of Allen's views on every issue. But I do want to know where he stands on the issues most important to me. And no, just hopin' and wishin' and prayin' that a candidate will share my views on those particular issues is not enough for me. Though it seems to be enough for you.

Second: you wrote ""I have seen what he has accomplished at the ATC, and I trust his good judgment enough to feel comfortable enough to put my reputation on the line and recommend him as an outstanding candidate for the legislature."

The problem there is, you're assuming that skill and achievement in one area necessarily translates into someone being a good legislator. There are many very successful businessmen in the Utah legislature who have turned out to be god-awful legislators. So no, GK, that alone... success in another field... is by no means enough to convince me to support a candidate without knowing anything else about him. Just as his [or her] having a wonderful family and being a reputed steady churchgoer isn't enough either. We don't elect these people to be Fathers and Husbands of the year, or Assistant Pastors. Every crook in Congress now serving time in the federal pen ran with pictures of a loving family on his campaign lit, and folks testifying to what a fine church going man he was. And they turned out to be crooks. [Both parties, I might add.] If you want to vote on that basis, that a good college builder will, necessarily, be a good legislator, it's a free country. But it's not, so far as experience has [sadly] taught us, a very sound basis on which to choose a candidate.

You wrote: We all know how you love to portray a different opinion on just about everything. Wrong. Only on matters on which I disagree with a poster in whole or part. If you've been a regular here for very long, you'll have noticed my deep and oft-expressed agreement with many who post here regarding Hizzonah's problems with ethical conduct, the absurdity of his plan to enhance Ogden's appeal as an outdoor mecca by turning our most popular hiking trails into sidewalks and popular biking trails into subdivision streets just to accommodate his gondola obsession --- and he developer cronies. And much else besides.

You wrote: We all have the right to our own opinion. Of course. This card-carrying ACLU members would never deny that. Did you think I had? God lord, why?

Curmudgeon said...


There's something too your point, I concede, but not as much as you think. First of all, if all four were elected, they would represent the people of Ogden. They would have won election. That does mean they were chosen by the voters to represent them. However unhappy that would make you. And me.

Second: you're assuming that Mr. Allen's opponent would necessarily not be a supporter of initiatives and requests by his fellow Republican, Mayor Matt Godfrey. And your evidence for that assumption is ... what?

Finally, I'm kind of astonished at how many people seem suddenly to be assuming that party really doesn't matter much in the Utah legislature. It seems to me it matters very much. Parties decide the house and senate leadership and the chairs of every committee in the place. And lots of evidence over a very long time suggests that legislative leaders are more prone to do favors for, and accommodate the wishes of members of their own party than those of the opposition party.

However uncomfortable it makes some, however much they keep wailing that Godfrey is not really a Republican, here are some facts it's hard for me to ignore: (a)Curtis and the House leadership are all Republicans (b) the chair of every House committee is a Republican (c) Mayor Godfrey is a Republican who has proven his ability to get substantial favors from his party friends --- e.g. the mayors can't be fired as RDA heads bill. (d) Allen is a Democrat.

Those are facts. Inconvenient ones for you, probably, but facts none the less. To vote for Allen's opponent, I'd have to be convinced, as I told GK, that Wallis (a)is as good, or better, on issues that matter to me than Allen is and that (b) Wallis is sufficiently independent that he will consistently resist the dictates of the Republican Wing Nut House leadership [Curtis, etc]. So far, I've seen no evidence on either point that even comes close to convincing me.

Curmudgeon said...

Bill C:

Ah, Bill, I am won over by the logic of your argument, by the compelling weight of your evidence. I strike my colors and withdraw. Who could resist the cogency of your argument?

Have you been taking lessons from Jason?

Bill C. said...

Curm, my tutor notwithstanding and despite my fondness for you both personally and politicly, your porsition on this one re-afirms my reluctence to join a political party. You're going to vote for a crook, snake, self loathing idiot and father in law to the worst thing ever spawned in Harrisville because his name will have a D in front of it.
Fortunately for me addled ed won't be on my ballot, so my winning streak of never casting a vote for an R will remain in tact. I have as you might guess lost many elections here locally, but my integrety is still intact and I sleep well most nights. Maybe there is some sanity in being an Independant.
Isn't there a third alternative on the ballot you could consider? Donald Duck, Mickey Mouse or even Mono? He's been attending crime conferences I believe. That should qualify him over allen. Besides, he's a fine man.

george k said...

My aren't we touchy?! Regarding your comment "This card-carrying ACLU members would never deny that. Did you think I had? God lord, why?" I gave you no reason to jump to the conclusion that I thought you would not afford anyone the right to their opinion. In view of our discussion, I was just acknowledging the fact that I would not be able to change your mind, nor would you be able to change mine and it was all right because we had the right to our own opinion.

I think that we should agree to disagree and close this discussion.

Curmudgeon said...

Fair enough.

Curmudgeon said...

Bill C:

Ah, Bill... one more time, and the last. First, as to this: Allen is father in law to the worst thing ever spawned in Harrisville. Sorry, Bill, I hold no man's in-laws against him. I'm concerned about where Allen stands on the matters he will deal with in the legislature. Not with his relatives. And as I've said many times before, if he were running for city council or county commission, I'd be pounding the pavements for his opponent. But he's not.

Second: you are assuming I'm voting for him only because he's a D. Again, wrong. I've summarized his views on major issues that matter to me. He is pretty much in line with my views on them. I'm not entirely happy, especially, with his vagueness on transit, and will press him on that. But on most of the major issues that the legislature deals with, he holds views close to mine. If Allen did not, and if his opponent did, I'd not be supporting Allen.

I find it curious that no one so far... not Danny, not GK, not you... has argued a single issue other than a city one: Allen's support for the gondola and the Mayor, matters peripheral to nearly all of what a representative will deal with in the House. Nobody wants to talk health care, or energy policy or pollution or education and so on. Nobody has even begun to argue that Wallis is better on those issues than Allen. All they want to argue is Allen and the gondola or Allen and the Mayor. Which is pretty much the same issue, really.

So let me be direct: If I have to choose between a rep. who will do the right thing on education, on vouchers, on pollution, on energy, on transit, on health care on the one hand, and a rep. who will do the wrong things on those issues, but will oppose special favors for Godfrey on the other, I know who I'm voting for: it's the former, not the latter. If it comes to that, for me, Allen's support of the Mayor and the Mayor's obsession with the gondola does not trump those other issues in a candidate for the House. It would were he a candidate for the county commission or the City. But he's not.

I sometimes get the impression that some here on WCF are as obsessed with the silly flatland gondola as Godfrey is... just from the opposite direction. I've worked against Godfrey's absurd gondola for a long time, Bill, and against its allied absurdities, like selling Mt. Ogden Park to a real estate developer crony. As have you, Bill. I will continue to do so, as I am sure you will too. But for a candidate for the House, that just is not the defining issue for me. Not even close.

Bill C. said...

O.K. Curm, I have gone to addled ed web page. Nothing but meaningless drivel. I can't believe you back a guy that thinks oil shale developement in the arid west is trueley on your side. This would be the most destructive wasteful means of obtaining oil, it leaves a wasteland and consumes vast ammounts of water, which we have precious little of. Not to mention the fact that the result is more carbon.
That was the only specific on his whole webpage, It read like it could have been written by a republican. Where's your honesty now? One can only assume that you are really only voting based on the D in front of his name.

YGBSM! said...

A mini Democratic convention...this Crum and Bill C thing. It's our own little ACLU card carrier's Clinton - Obama fued.

Somebody trot out a D icon, a womanizing, drunk, and felon.

No not Bill! Ted, a dead man walking.

I want to vote Democratic but how when they put up such low life white trash.

Oh, by putting up a high-yeller feather merchant trash...Barack Obama.

Dems. PLEASE give us a break. PLEASE give us a credible and qualified candidate and at the very least a patriot.


Curmudgeon said...


We all have different wedge issues, Bill, and I long ago gave up trying to find candidates who agree with me about everything. They would, of course, be very wise to do that, but so far, none have. Can't understand why not, but there it is.

No candidate being perfect on every issue, I have to judge which one, on balance, would be best for the state.

Here, btw, is Allen's statement on energy policy:

.It seems critical that the United States achieve a reasonable and effective energy policy. Fossil fuels are a precious resource, but they are finite. Our reliance on foreign sources continues to create serious problems for our nation relative to our economy as well as our security.
Meeting this challenge will require courage, discipline creativity and commitment. It will require efforts at increasing efficiency of our use of fossil fuels and real progress in shifting to renewable.sources of energy. I would like to see a national commitment to achieve energy independence somewhat like that which followed President John F. Kennedy's pronouncement of a national goal to land a human being on the moon in the
.....While much of this must be done on national level, the state of Utah must do what it can to help especially in terms of energy efficiency and care of use by our state agencies. Development of our state's remarkable resources especially of coal and oil shale may also be of significant help. Research on our campuses has in the past offered assistance and hope and continued efforts need to be encouraged.

I'm largely happy with it. More efficient use of fossil fuels coupled with a drive to develop alternative and especially renewable resources. All he says of shale oil is that it "may" be a part of the mix, and that the universities should be engaged in research to help devise an efficient energy future for Utah and the nation.

I notice you ignore all of what he called for, except the comment about shale oil "may" be part of the mix. I think he's wrong about that, especially because no one has yet come close to proving its economically feasible. Not to mention the environmental damage it will do. So he and I disagree about whether it even "may" be part of the right mix on energy policy.

Interesting that you ignored all the rest, with which I agree, and fixed only on the "may" involving shale.

Have a nice day!

RudiZink said...

Unlike YGBSM above, I'm loving your Demo debate, Curm and Bill C.

And with that in mind, howbout a little trip down memory lane, Weber County Forum folks?

Here's something really revealing:

"An oderiferous ode to precious character of this young man Godfrey" By Edgar "Addled Ed" Allen, Boss Godfrey's friggin' father-in-Law!

Face it, Bill. Curmudgeon's a self-admitted Yellow Dog Democrat ferchissake! Blindly voting for yellow dogs like Addled Ed is danged near programmed into Curm's warped genetic code.

It would be nice, I'll admit, for Gentle Curm to at least fess up, and admit he has a particularly incurable form of Democratic Party Genetic Disease, rather than to serially conjure up patently transparent and facially preposterous "policy" rationalizations and justifications.

That's all part of the "Yellow Dog Democrat Disease Syndrome," however, Bill.

There's no known treatment for this disease... but we do hope Gentle Curmudgeon will "get better" before November 4.

Curmudgeon said...


Ah, I notice that yet again, an opponent of Allen refuses to discuss any issue at all, except his relation to the Mayor. Do I detect a trend? Are Republicans afraid to engage in re: this on the issues likely to be faced by our rep in the legislature?

I certainly understand why Republicans would prefer to run issue-less campaigns.

what will it costs us said...

Sorry after reading the letter from Ed Allen and after talking to Brent Wallis I have to vote for Brent a Republician, which may be the only "R" that would get my vote this coming election. I appreciate Lou Shurtliff and wish she was still running.

We need representatives that have some common sense and not be blinded by loyality at any costs. We need someone to represent all the people in Dist #10, not just to represent a few friends and allow only their views to be heard.

george k said...

What will it cost us, glad to see you're a thinking person. That will be one vote you won't regret.

george k said...


You always hide behind issues and don't look at the character of your democratic candidates. Since issues are the most important thing to you, I dare you to call Brent Wallis and talk to him and find out where he stands on the issues. Then you'll know who really is the best candidate for Legislative Representative Seat 10.

I agree with you that we need more Democrats in the Legislature, and I have a problem with some of our Republican Legoslators. I want quality people there -- people who will do what is right for the State and the people of the State of Utah. I don't vote a straight party ticket, I vote for the best person for the position.

Curmudgeon said...

George K:

You wrote: You always hide behind issues...

Ah, ya got me this time, GK. I definitely do tend to think issues are important in an election, in fact are generally the most important thing. But then, I'm a Democrat. We do tend to think issues matter, unlike Republicans who if posts here are any indication would much prefer to keep issues as far from the voters as possible.

I almost sympathize with them. I mean, look what they'd have to run on: "Vote Republican, for the party that passed the Developers Dream Bill! Vote Republican, for the Party that Brought Us School Vouchers... or tied to. Vote Republican, for the party that stuffs failed bills into other bills in the last minutes of the session so they become law anyway! Vote Republican, the party that made Mayors except from being fired as head of RDA's no matter how miserable their performance! Vote Utah Republican [a wholly owned and operated subsidiary of the Utah Realtors and Developers lobby.]"

Jaysus, GK, I had to run on those issues, I'd want to talk about anything BUT issues if I could too.

I'm accused of "hiding behind the issues." All I can say, GK, is thanks for the compliment. I appreciate it.

Curmudgeon said...

What It Will Cost us:

You wrote: We need someone to represent all the people in Dist #10, not just to represent a few friends and allow only their views to be heard.

And your voting Republican? The party that passed the Developers Dream Bill? The Party that seems to be a wholly owned subsidiary of the Realtors and Developers lobby? You're voting Republican because swelling that party's majority is the best way to have the legislature consider the needs and wishes of all the people, not just their cronies and insiders?


Curmudgeon said...

Just went searching for Mr. Wallis' website. Can't seem to find it. So I went over to the Weber County Republican Party webpage. Surely I'd find information about the party's candidates there, que no? But gee, nothing on the candidate there either. In fact, latest post there seems to have gone up in June. [On the WC Dem Party webpage, of course, you can find links to all our candidates and their home pages. So you might, you know, be able to find out what their stands are on issues that you might think are important. I know, I know, making that information easily available is a radical idea... but hey, we're Democrats. ]

So, still searching for information on Mr. Wallis from some source other than someone who called him up, or is a friend, and who thinks he is just the bees knees [appropriate thing of a Beehive stater to be, I guess] because... well, just because... I went to the very useful WCF election links to the right of the main page. Found there a link to the platform of the Weber County Democratic Party but, oddly, nothing from the Weber County Republican Party about its platform, or its candidates.

Curiouser and curiouser. Could it be the WCRP is trying to make it hard to find out where it and its candidates stand on issues? I mean, as I said, I can certainly understand why they wouldn't be eager to get into issues. But still... no WCRP platform available, no candidate links on the WCRP webpage, and nothing much posted newer than June?

Curiouser and curiouser....

what will it costs us said...

Curm, settle down. Brent only has a postcard info at, not all republicians have a deep well of funds, maybe the mayor paid for Ed Allens website with his campaighn funds:

I'm sure if you called him he would be happy to share his views with you.

At least he doesn't have a family picture with someone who has passed away. I also have it on good record that Ed Allen's ego might get in the way of actually building friendships at the Capital.

I also vote for the issues, and not just on personalities. I'm hoping for big changes in the "R" leadership, and maybe someone who has never been in the legislature can build bridges and work with everyone on important issues

Curmudgeon said...


A few points:

(a)Sorry, but you can put up free websites at lots of places. [I have one up at for one of my courses.] Totally completely free. You're going to have to talk long and hard to convince me that the Weber County Republican Party is more bereft of funds than the WC Dem Party, so much so that it cannot manage to put candidate information on its website. In fact, I won't believe it. [I saw the WCDP books just this weekend. Send money. Please!] Besides, your guy ran a tech college for 35 years. And he can't manage to put up a website? Sorry. Not buying.

(b)And, meaning no disrespect to Mr. Wallis, who I have not met, let me assure you that voice communications one-on-one have a real downside as a means of disseminating information. It is this: every conversation is unique, and I absolutely guarantee that people will remember their conversations, and the particulars of the candidate's assertions about his intentions, differently. And, there being no record of what he said, confusion can result... or, if it is deemed beneficial... can be created.

(c) Thank you very much for the PDF though. It's the first Wallis stuff I've seen anywhere. Permit me to suggest, though, that anyone who has seen it has zero standing to complain [as Bill has] that Allen's much more extensive posting on issues is vague.

(d) I'll give Wallis some chops for at least mentioning "transit." But he doesn't say what he favors, only that he wants a strong WC representation in the House so we can get money for transportation projects and "proven transit corridor development." I would like to know what he means by that, specifically. I hope he means trolley transit but he doesn't say. Where does he stand on the gondola [since that seems to be such an issue in these parts]? Doesn't say. Though he does favor, he says, forging "public-business partnerships." Interesting phrase, that. Would that include, say, the public-business partnerships like that between Ogden City and the Junction development? Or between Ogden City and Gadi's Lesham Village project? Doesn't say. [Before anyone jumps, no, I don't think these matters should be central to electing a state rep. But many here have raised precisely these kinds of issues as reasons for voting against Allen, so raising them vis-a-vis Wallis seems fair to me. What's sauce for the goose....]

(e) What is on that one page, then, is very vague and extremely limited. He's for education. Thinks it's a good thing. And lists as qualifications for choosing him that his daughter in law is a teacher and he has lots of grandkids. You may find that kind of argument convincing. I don't. [And yes, Mr. Allen does the same with a long section on all the folks he's related to and what his friends and relations --- he seems to have almost as many as Rabbit --- are up to. And I find that just as unimportant.]

(f) Curiously, Mr. Wallis, who from his one page up seems to be making education the core of his campaign, manages not to say word one about school vouchers. Now why would a Republican candidate for the house, running he hopes as "the education candidate" not say a single word about vouchers? Tis a poser.... What could the reason be?

So many questions... so few answers.

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