It's it's been reported in the last night's post-debate comments that several debate attendees submitted the pointed question to At Large Seat "B" council candidate David Phipps, as to the specific date he established his Ogden City residency, for purposes of complying with the Ogden City elections ordinance, which requires a prerequisite residence period prior to filing for Ogden City elective office. In the expectation that some of our readers may have not been closely following developments regarding this issue, we've decided to put up this article, to focus on the factual uncertainties which have led some lumpencitizens to apply closer scrutiny to this issue at last night's debate. Hopefully with this post, we'll be able to bring all our readers up to speed regarding this.
Specifically, here's the applicable Ogden City ordinance which among other things, specifies a threshold one-year period of residency for city council candidates:
2-3-2: COUNCIL MEMBER QUALIFICATIONS:In the instant case, we'll now inform our readers that there are two circumstances which have led many of us to question whether Mr. Phipps has complied with the above threshold residency requirement:
Each member of the city council shall be a registered voter and shall have resided within the city for a period of twelve (12) consecutive months immediately preceding the date of election and remain a resident during the term of office. The members elected from each of the municipal wards shall have been an actual and bona fide resident of the ward from which the council member is elected at least sixty (60) days prior to the election and shall continue as such resident during the term of office. If a council member shall cease to possess any of these qualifications, his office shall immediately become vacant. Council members while in office shall hold no other compensated employment with the city. [Emphasis added.]
1) In an earlier comments thread, one of our gentle readers revealed that she'd stumbled upon Mr. Phipps' personal family blog, which contained the four eye-opening entries, described below, concerning candidate Phipps's Ogden residency:
Zippy, I am so glad you asked! The Candidate Guide to Elections for 2009 on page 9 states the following:Quite predictably, this information caused quite a stir amongst our gentle readers. And the fact that Mr. Phipps subsequently closed down his family's blog to general internet traffic didn't help quell the outrage. Some of us even speculated that this latter move could be interpreted as "consciousness of guilt," an act which could be reasonably construed as "hiding the damning evidence."
"Qualifications for Candidacy
Anyone wishing to file for candidacy must meet the following qualifications:
• Be a United States citizen at the time of filing;
• Be at least 18 years old;
• Be a registered voter of Ogden City;
• Be a resident of Ogden City or resident of a recently annexed area for a period of 12 consecutive months immediately preceding the date of election."
So, in answer to your last question: 12 consecutive months months immediately preceding the date of election = either September 15 or November 3, 2009.
From the Phipps Family blogsite:
10/12/2008, in the 4th paragraph is stated: "still don't know when moving."
10/30/2008, in the 2nd paragraph is stated: "currently staying at David's parents house in Ogden valley while we do some work on our new home"
11/23/2008, in the 2nd paragraph is stated: "We are still staying at David's parents, hoping to move into our house the first week of December"
And, finally, on 12/8/2008, in the 1st paragraph is stated: "the furniture is in, the toilets work, the kitchen is stocked and unpacked, the floors swept and mopped ... tomorrow we'll be in"
2) And then, earlier this week, a number of us in Emerald City received additional data of a "political dynamite" nature, information which has remained unpublicised... until now. According to documents obtained from the Salt Lake County Elections Office by Rep. Neil Hansen, through an October 12, 2009 GRAMA request, we've learned that candidate Phipps cast a vote on November 4, 2008 in his former Salt Lake voting precinct during the 2008 General Election (thereby affirming his Salt Lake County residency as of that date):
• Salt Lake County Election Division GRAMA Response In Re David PhippsDo the math, people. According to our calculations, the last day immediately preceding the date of the upcoming November 3, 2009 election (November 2, 2009) by which Mr. Phipps could have perfected the requisite one-year residency requirement, would have required starting the clock running on his Ogden residency by no later than November 3, 2008. Having however voted as a Salt Lake County resident on November 4, 2008 in his old Salt Lake precinct, many of us believe Mr. Phipps has failed to meet (and cannot meet) the residency requirement specified in the above-referenced Ogden City Code section. In other words, it seems obvious that Mr. Phipps is therefore unqualified as a matter of law to have his name placed on the November 3, 2009 Ogden City ballot. If Phipps had an ounce of decency -- which we doubt -- he'd remove his own name from the November ballot. Of course he won't, even though he's now been caught red-handed, a day late and a dollar short.
These are the reasons, gentle readers, that conscientious Emerald City citizens are in an uproar; and that's why the focus is now on the details concerning Mr. Phipps's residency. What a difference a day makes, no?
And what say our gentle readers about all that?
Update 10/16/09 8:00 a.m.: The Standard-Examiner picked up on this story late last evening, and carries Scott Schwebke's writeup on its Live! website:
• Hansen challenges Ogden City Council candidate's eligibilitySadly, even when the reported facts are viewed in a light most favorable to candidate Phipps, they nevertheless require a direct admission of an act of wilful and deliberate voter fraud on Phipps's part in Salt Lake County, which tellingly reflects upon his honesty and integrity. The poor kid's digging himself in deeper and deeper. If he had a lick of integrity or common sense at all, he'd do "what's right," and quietly drop out of the race. Of course he probably doesn't... and he likely won't.
57 comments:
Knowingly signing such an affidavit, when said document contains material misrepresentations of fact, is a crime under Utah state law.
When I vote for someone, I look for honesty, truthfulness, integrity, and a person that will put the public first in their duty to the office that they have been elected. If ever a candidate has a question on them, on any of these qualities, that person will not get a vote from me. Nor should they receive anyone's vote for that matter.
can you say "deer in the headlights"?
js
BB
If I read this right, It says that they "shall have resided within the city for a period of twelve (12) consecutive months immediately preceding the date of election"
The date of election was on Sept. 15th of 2009. An election is an election. Correct. He clearly was not a resident of Ogden since Sept 15th of 2008. His own blog admits that he did not move in til Dec 8th of 2008 and since he voted in Salt lake county he has declared to the Clerk of salt lake county that that was his residency.
From the Utah Code
20A-2-105. Determining residency.
(1) Except as provided in Subsection (4), election officials and judges shall apply the standards and requirements of this section when determining whether or not a person is a resident for purposes of interpreting this title or the Utah constitution.
(2) A "resident" is a person who resides within a specific voting precinct in Utah as provided in this section.
(3) (a) A person resides in Utah if:
(i) the person's principal place of residence is within Utah; and
(ii) the person has a present intention to continue residency within Utah permanently or indefinitely.
(b) A person resides within a particular voting precinct if, as of the date of registering to vote, the person has the person's principal place of residence in that voting precinct.
(4) (a) The principal place of residence of any person shall be determined by applying the provisions of this Subsection (4).
(b) A person's "principal place of residence" is that place in which the person's habitation is fixed and to which, whenever the person is absent, the person has the intention of returning.
but what if this person is living in ogden but is still legally registered to vote in slc? One does not lose one's right to vote for a year becasue one moves -- voting in slc does not mean one is living there that day, one could have left town a few weeks before.
I think this would answers the questions about the subject at hand.
(b) A person's "principal place of residence" is that place in which the person's habitation is fixed and to which, whenever the person is absent, the person has the intention of returning.
(f) A person is not a resident of any county or voting precinct if that person comes for temporary purposes and does not intend to make that county or voting precinct the person's home.
(j) (i) A person has changed his residence if:
(A) the person has acted affirmatively to remove himself from one geographic location; and
(B) the person has an intent to remain in another place.
(ii) There can only be one residence.
(6) (a) There is a presumption that a person is a resident of Utah and of a voting precinct and intends to remain in Utah permanently or indefinitely if the person makes an oath or affirmation upon a registration application form that the person's residence address and place of residence is within a specific voting precinct in Utah.
Anonymous,
I think that is why you can register to vote any time during the year, at any county clerk office, or though the mail.
Just because you move doesn't mean you can break the law because you forgot to re-register.
I was astounded that he used a Georgia Drivers Licence to verify identity, in the SLC elections.
Utah law allows for about thirty days to get a Utah Drivers Licence.
Buckle up people. The spinning from the mayors office for David Phipps is about to begin.
wildcat
youre pointing out standards for someone trying to vote not for running for elction.
besides tell that to the hundreds of people that godfreys minions keep from voting during the last mayorial election by challenging just these points.
and they were actually ogden residents.
DISGUSTED,
very good reason to point out the georgia state driver license -- if it works in SLC to verify voter ID --> it should have worked in Ogden in the mayoral election. Don't they go by state rules for governing elections?
If it works to establish residency for voter registration --> it would work to establish non-residency for candidacy eligibility --> it is relevant to someone running for election, as well as to all the voters
js
BB
Will the S-E report on this development regarding Mr. Phipps? they have not previously investigated many cases that reflect badly on the mayor or his favorites?
Hey folks, this is the Grand Wazoo you're talking about here. The 26 yr.old wizzard of urban ills, recruiter extrodinaire, surely he's conjured up a cure and delivered it to gary williams.
Money laundering, fraudulent solicitation of funds and all things cured in the previous election by williams sayso make this pale in comparison, this is just good ole gondola examiner he said, she said, with just a little damning evidence that could so easily be overlooked.
Once again, the Weber County Forum stands up for the citizens of Weber County, does investigative reporting, and wins against the scurrilous interests who would break the law in order to advance their own agenda of greed and easy taxpayer handouts..
Great work, kids.
And thank you, Rep. Neil Hansen; once again you show you have the best interests of your constituency at heart, and at mind.
The SE will have to pick this story up, because Phipps will be disqualified on the basis of not meeting canidate requirements.
He was legally a resident of SLC when he voted in SLC. It really doesn't matter if he was living on Mars, Godfrey's couch, or in Ogden Valley.
As far as the state is concerned on that day, he was an SLC resident.
This will be breaking state news on Monday morning; possibly sooner.
Again, great work.
We love this town. ;>
Wrong Stephen M. Cook. You are so wrong.
Well so this is how it’s going to be? I find an energetic, enthusiastic person who is willing to move to Ogden and support my vision for this city, and all you people talk about is that he just moved here?
All right. Let’s just come out with it. David Phipps moved to Ogden this summer. Well, not really. He hasn’t actually moved here yet. I had Steve Kier pay to rent Phipps a house on 25th Street but he hasn’t been able to fully move yet.
That’s because it turns out that Phipps is allergic to Ogden.
And before you start with your inevitable snickering, I mean it is a clinical, diagnosed condition. The times he has come to Ogden to debate, well you should see the hives he gets on his back and all over his private parts.
The last time he was here, was for a full 3 hours, and he probably spent one of those hours naked, sprawled in my office rubbing cream all over himself crying “It burns! Ogden burns! Somebody stop the burning!” Rushing him back to Salk Lake only narrowly saved this valiant young man’s life.
If that isn’t dedication, what is? Would any of you, sitting there reading this blog, endure that kind of suffering for me? I think not.
All in all, this is problem between David Phipps and his dermatologist, and Steve Kier has made a generous donation to make sure Phipps will be fully cured, or at least in remission, before he takes his oath of office.
Like the policeman said. There’s nothing going on here people. Move on.
now that's just gross, and inappropriate -- mr mayor, cut it out.
BB
Too funny! When it comes to all-time political screw-ups, David Phipps takes the cake.
One wonders how long after his name is scrubbed will he pack his carpetbags and head back to Jake Garns vest pocket?
There is a reason why this Greasy Realtor hasn't purchased a home in this buyers market.
We assumed it was just because he would get an even sweeter deal once he had the city council placard to flash.
We were wrong. Its going to be because he was chased to the Davis County Line by persons who are wide awake, and proactive.
Note: he was not going to win, anyway, as he declared his desire to pave our bench lands.
Take note, council candidates. ;>
Mr. Schwebke has posted a story on the Phipps eligibility issue here.
I predict that Gary Williams, the Ogden City Attorney and Godfreyite movement's main Curist, after much legal research and many hours of soul searching and/or searching for a soul will find that, as it concerns the Phipps alleged voter and election fraud matter, there was no foul and no harm, just a minor little oversight on the part of the honorable Mr. Phipps, and in fact Mr. City Attorney and Chief Curist Williams will further find that Mr. Phipps' vote in SLC, even though he was a solemnly sworn resident of Ogden, was not only not felonious behavior but was in fact a supreme act of patriotism in that we all know that SLC is a den of inequity and a sordid pool of liberal democratic queers and perverts who do not know how to vote for decent God fearing white MoMo Republican candidates, and in fact have known homo's representing them not only in the state house of representatives but also in the state senate, and therefor any true red blooded and great American who helps them out with a more moral vote, as Mr. Phipps did, even though technically illegal in that Babylonian place of whores and pimps, is doing a great public service for democracy and City Attorney and Chief Curist Williams will further recommend that Mr. Phipps be awarded the annual Godfrey silver star for bravery and excellence in ethics award and unilaterally be declared the winning candidate in the Ogden City Council race with Mayor Godfrey's full concurrence and blessings which will be conferred upon Mr Phipps immediately before the City's paragon of virtue and pillar of moral governance, not withstanding those pesky improper sexual and dereliction of duties charges out of West Valley City of several years ago, PureHeart Patterson lays the laurel leaf crown, which symbolizes the Godfrey silver star for bravery and excellence in ethics award upon Mr. Phipps' exceedingly humble and honorable head.
(English majors, take a shot at diagramming that sentence!)
In the just posted article in the Standard, Mr. Schwepke, as usual, leaves out a few pertinent details that tend to skew the story in Mr.Phipps favor. The main one being that Mr. Phipps appears to have committed voter fraud in Salt Lake because he sold his house there in the month preceding the November 09 vote, yet he did not tell the elections people this pertinent fact and he voted anyway.
So either he was a resident of Salt Lake on 4 Nov 08, which he so certified by voting there, which means he wasn't a resident of Ogden on that date and therefore committed election fraud in Ogden for claiming he was,
OR
He was a resident of Ogden, as he claimed, and thus committed voter fraud in Salt Lake by voting there on that date.
He either lived in Ogden or he lived in Salt Lake, I don't think he can have it both ways try as he might.
So take your pick David, you either committed voter fraud in Salt Lake, or you committed election fraud in Ogden.
I also find it interesting that Mr. Phipps is trying to spin his obvious fraudulent behavior into victim hood by blaming his opponent of dirty campaign tactics and alleges that his opponent is afraid to deal with the issues.
Well Mr. Phipps, one of the great issues in this debate is ethics and it appears you are losing on that score as well.
Ozboy,
You forgot to say that the Godfrey winner will say and i say, will say, I am the king and bow down and kiss my ring.
Stan
Based on his wife's blog entries Phipps actually lived in the Ogden Valley on the dates in question, therefor he committed both offenses you gave him the choice of.
He literally was living in Ogden Valley, claimed he lived in Salt Lake and also claimed he lived in Ogden - all on the same date.
Hey,
When Blake-I screwed up the 07 election-sowers called for a challenge of the voters back in 07, would ever think that this would be an issue in the 09 race. Thank you Blake for setting such a great example that we all can live by. It is this fine example that made this all possible. He is the one that made this all happen. If he didn't tell me about this case, we would have never known how to fight this in our democracy.
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, well lets jes say a million thanks
Darrel,
Did you see the super man movies where he was in 10 places at one time. That is how Phipps did this, he is super man.
Here is a story that this issue is all about, and forget the partisan bickering.
Shea bows out of Utah House race
By Bob Bernick Jr.
Deseret Morning News
Published: Friday, March 24, 2006 12:40 a.m. MST
Olympic gold medalist Jim Shea Jr. has withdrawn from his Summit County Utah House race, and the big winner may not be the Utah Democratic Party, which challenged his candidacy.
Shea, who was running as a Republican, got out of the race late Wednesday, a day before Lt. Gov. Gary Herbert, as Utah's chief election officer, was scheduled to give a ruling on whether the 2002 skeleton winner met Utah candidate residency requirements by being a state resident for three years.
Earlier in the day, Shea told the Deseret Morning News that should he be disqualified from the 2006 race for House District 53, he would run again in 2008.
Shea's exit actually gives the largest benefit to former Utah House speaker Mel Brown and Dee Putnam, both fellow Republicans. The district has had GOP representatives for years.
Brown, who left the Legislature in 1998 under a cloud of controversy, served his terms as a resident of Midvale.
He moved to Coalville after he left the Legislature and is running from his new residency this year for a seat being vacated by Rep. Dave Ure, R-Kamas.
While many know Putnam, Brown and other candidates in the district, Shea became a household name during the 2002 Salt Lake City Olympics, being featured in the opening ceremonies as a third-generation U.S. Olympian and then narrowly winning a gold medal later in the Games.
Utah Democrats claimed Shea voted in the November 2003 elections in Lake Placid, N.Y., where Shea also trained. If so, then Shea was claiming New York residency while he was supposed to be a Utah resident. Shea has been living in Park City for some time, often seen at various Utah events.
Shea said he didn't remember voting in New York, but Democratic Party leaders said they had copies of the voting book that shows Shea's signature, proving he picked up a ballot.
In any case, Shea said Wednesday: "I tried to play by the rules. It's a shame that the (Utah) Democrats are scared chickens," afraid to face Shea in a Utah House election.
"If I can't run this year because of a technicality," said Shea, "I will run next time. I'm just a new guy trying to get involved" in local Utah politics.
Last year, Shea appeared before a Utah House GOP caucus meeting to ask legislators for financial support for various Utah Olympic venues, including the bobsled/skeleton run at Bear Hollow in Summit County.
Shea's exit leaves the House District 53 race to Brown and Putnam, Republicans; Laura Bohnam, Democrat; and Gary Shumway, Libertarian.
From Schwebke's article, "state law that requires him to live in Ogden for 12 consecutive months prior to the upcoming Nov. 3 general election"
Does Phipps know what "consecutive" means?
He says, "we didn't sleep there while we were painting because my wife was seven months pregnant."
His wife's blog says they were living in Ogden valley.
And Phipps was voting in SLC during the period.
So even if he signed the lease, he didn't move, and didn't live there continuously as the law requires.
Phipps hangs himself again.
BTW, thanks to the WCF for again bumping the SE to cover a story they had been sitting on.
Who says Phipps isn't qualified? He is a friend of the mayor and was personally selected by him to run for a city council position. In Ogden politics all that is necessary is to be a friend of the Mayor. After all he meets the most important qualification, he is dishonest and has already lied when he filed. Imagine how much he could fabricate when he really begins to spend time with Matthew Godfrey.
I posted this on the other thread rather late, so I think it got lost.
Couldn't someone with better computer skills than mine look up new business licenses issued in Ogden in 2008?
In the depth of the Great Recession, I would be surprised if there were 39 new businesses, much less "5 or 6" on 25th Street.
This is another claim that cries out for some sort of verification.
What's up with the gondola examiner not showing comments on this story? Isn't their protection of this imposter going a little too far?
Jim:
Inquiring voters want to KNOW ... the truth!
js
BB
Friends (and some people I have yet to meet)...
Please stop hammering me with the phone calls, text messages, and emails regarding David Phipps and 25th Street ...
Here's what I found out?
As a two decade owner of multiple businesses and property on 25th Street, I can confirm to you, through very highly reliable 25th Street directors, there is no way in hell David Phipps is responsible for "5 or 6" start up or businesses relocating to our magniloquent street ...
In fact, the directors could not confirm even one ...
Bill Parker
um ... Bill, if you log in, you can see there are lots of comments (at least there were this morning earlier)
js,
BB
I hesitate to even get involved in this discussion, but...
Mr. Phipps may or may not have violated the letter of the law by voting in SLC last year and now claiming that he lived in Ogden at the time. But either way, it's going to come down to technicalities.
Voters should not be concerned about these technicalities. They should assume that Mr. Phipps is a legal candidate and judge him on his qualifications:
* He is 26 years old.
* He has lived in Ogden for approximately one year, and in Utah for a few years longer.
* He currently resides in a house on 25th Street, rented from Bill Spain of Provident Partners.
* His campaign contributions have come almost entirely from commercial real estate interests.
* He is a commercial realtor operating out of an office in Layton with his father (who lives in Ogden Valley).
* He is clearly a supporter of Mayor Godfrey, and even wrote a letter to the editor supporting Godfrey in the last election.
* Godfrey, on his part, has steered business to Phipps and his father, and has made robocalls on behalf of the Phipps campaign.
* Both Phipps and Godfrey have tried to downplay their association during the present campaign.
* Phipps has also tried very hard (without quite lying) to give voters the false impression that he has lived in Ogden longer than he actually has, and that his business is based on Ogden rather than Layton.
* Phipps claims to have brought a large number of businesses to Ogden in recent years, but he hasn't publicly named any of those businesses or said what his role was.
* If elected, Phipps would become a member not only of the City Council but also of the Ogden RDA Board, which controls a large portion of the commercial development going on in Ogden. The RDA Board also has access to confidential information about development plans and real estate values. As a commercial realtor who is heavily involved in Ogden, Phipps would have frequent conflicts of interest.
All these facts are much more relevant than the exact date on which Mr. Phipps moved to Ogden.
We do agree with you, Dan S., on your well thought out points in your analysis of Phipps.
But, we are a nation of laws. We expect our children to follow laws to the letter; only then does the "spirit of the law" become able to thrive.
Same with "almost lying"; we can just hear a child equivocating thus: "But dad, I did not lie. You said don't hit the dog with the stick, and we didn't. We were hitting the dog with a board."
Calling a portion of a written and passed law "a technicality" does not offset the breaking of the law.
Try telling a judge that the knife being in your hand was only a technicality.
All laws have technical details. It is no excuse for being lawless, albeit one technicality at a time.
And Dan.... one other point that you are missing. He looks EXACTLY like Alfred E. Neuman. Now that is worth considering too. Look at the photo the Standard used in the article and transpose Alfred on top of him. Exact replica.
Just sayin... too!
There are 16 comments on the article on Phipps in the Standard and they do not appear. Whats the deal? Does anyone know how to access them or why they do not appear?
Stephen,
I would encourage you to read the applicable statutes so you can see exactly what I mean by technicalities. Remember that laws are written by legislators, and often contain ambiguities and contradictions that make their meaning difficult to interpret. (That's one reason why we have courts.)
Sorry Dan S. Lying about eligibility to run for city council is not a "technicality" It goes to the honesty of the candidate. Why not allow anyone to run for city council. They could establish residency later. This was a calculated attempt to avoid meeting the requirements for office. He, and those who encouraged him to file and run, knew that there was a problem with his eligibility. It was not a "technicality. It was a deliberate attempt to avoid following the long established rules for candidates for city offices. As someone who has fought elected officials who sought to deny you information based on a claimed "technicality" I am surprised and disappointed in your reaction.
You now have to log on to see comments. All you need is an email address and a handle (name.)
Courts, yes.
One might wonder just how far this side of "moved to Ogden too late", one would have to fall in order for Phipps supporters to admit that Phipps might not have lived in Ogden long enough to be a serious candidate, or to admit he may have broken the law.
Once you fudge a month or three, why not a month or six.
How about someone who does not actually move to Ogden until he has won the office?
It is a very real, wet, and quite slippery slope; a slope right on down to lawless elections and insider influence.
Ray, the state law on residency is highly technical and somewhat contradictory. So in cases like this, it really is a matter of technicalities.
Based on what I've seen of Mr. Phipps, honesty does not seem to be one of his stronger traits. He claimed to be endorsed by people without even asking for their endorsements. He chooses his words carefully to give listeners the impression that he's lived in Ogden a long time and that his business is based in Ogden, when neither is true. He enormously exaggerates his accomplishments as a realtor involved in leasing commercial properties in Ogden. As others have observed, he's a lot like Mayor Godfrey in that most of what he says, while not technically false, is intended to deceive.
I think Phipps can make a good case that he was telling the truth (to the best of his knowledge) when he filed as a candidate and claimed to meet the technical eligibility requirements. But he knew that he was in a gray area, given the date when he actually moved into the house and the fact that he voted in SLC in November 2008. To the extent that we expect politicians to tell the whole truth, and not just the technical truth, you're correct that this incident also reflects on his honesty.
I never believe that misdirection and prevarication are not lies. Of course they are lies.
I just think this is a code red, and any other word for it is still a code red. Maybe Dan you need to watch a "Few good men" Movie. I guess that as long as you are in power you can do anything that you want, because it is just a technicality.
Sorry Dan S. You are still wrong about Phipps. He did not live in Ogden for the miminum time requirement. Spin it however you wish but he lied. When you claim "technicalities" you sound just like the city officials that claim police chief/state senator Greiner is not violating the hatch act. He was either a resident of SLC when he voted in the 2008 election or he was living in Ogden to establish his residency. Information posted on his family blog shows that he was not living in Ogden and did not establish legal residency.
Ray, please answer one question for me: Have you read the Utah statutes on residency?
Ray Vaughn,
Dan S. is a community asset, but he is a technocrat and professor. He tends sometimes to miss the forest for the trees. He squints at gnats sometimes and misses the big picture.
His point was that it's probably not going anywhere to try to get Phipps thrown off the ballot, and this episode is more important for the fact that is shows what a liar Phipps is.
See how easy it is?
Just step back, and it will be more clear.
Dan S. I have read it and understand it differently than you. Phipps was either a resident of SLC when he voted November 4 2008 or he was a resident of Ogden. His family blog says he was not living in Ogden in time to meet residency qualificatioins. Apparently you enjoy splitting hairs in order to tale a contradictary viewpoint. Phipps either lied on residency or he committed voter fraud in SLC. I maintain a winter home in Arizona but don't claim to be a resident or attempt to vote or run for office in Arizona. He does not qualify as a resident of Ogden due to actual physical occupancy of his residence. Spin it however you wish but he should be disqualified and removed from the ballot.
one thing the Utah code on residency does say is that a person cannot have more than one legal residence. As Stan noted in an earlier post, Mr Phipps may well have moved to Ogden more than 12 mos ago and established this as his place of residence. As I read the code, a place of residence does not mean you actually live there every day of every week, but you have made it the place you intend to live and return to it. I believe Mr Phipps has done this in Ogden. But that does raise the second question: how could he vote in SLC after establishing residency in Ogden. That, however, is a matter for SLC. As Dan notes, the issue for Ogden voters (as I believe he can claim Ogden as his legal place of residency for the past 12 mos) is whether or not his ideas are the right ones for Ogden. I believe they are not.
Anyone know if Phipps is in the same Ward (LDS, not electoral) as Godfrey?
Ogden lover.
He is in the same stake as Godfrey, but not the same ward. I would guess that he is in the same ward as Rep. Hansen if he lives one block away as the paper said.
Rep. Hansen is a political master; he could wipe the floor with this virtual unknown. The only reason Mr. Hansen would speak up in this matter, would be if he had looked into it fairly thoroughly.
No one wants to win by default, but if that is the character of Phipps, then he has to go down.
Mr. Hansen also has the clout to make things happen; so, if Phipps moved here a scant 1 day late, he will be removed.
Once Mr. Hansen spoke up, it was all over for Phipps.
Stephen
While I agree with you that Rep Hansen is a good man and a rare politician with integrity and love for his constituents, I don't think he is in any position here in Republican dominated Utah to be mopping any floors with any body.
He really doesn't have much "clout" as you write, but he does have a "bloody pulpit" as Teddy Roosevelt called public office.
Mr. Hansen uses that pulpit very honorably and admirably in defending the citizens of Ogden and the rule of law.
Unraveling the mare's nest of Utah residency/eligibility law is beyond me. Particularly since our legislators so often don't know what it is they are doing or have done when they pass a law --- look at all the times in the very next legislative session they have to rush through a fix because it turned out they'd done something they didn't know they'd done. Extracting legislative intent from the Salt Lake Follies [aka Utah Legislature] often requires the services of a seer or magus than a lawyer.
So I'd like to come at this question from the point of view of ethical conduct rather than legal requirements: If Mr. Phipps did establish his Ogden residency when he says he did, then he knew he was not a resident of SLC when he cast his vote there in November. And if he was a legal resident of SLC in November when he voted, then he did not establish his residency in Ogden when he says he did. He cannot have it both ways... not ethically, anyway.
Law aside, it seems to me that no one standing for public office who understood the ethical responsibilites of public men could have, in good conscience, voted in Salt Lake City when he knew himself to no longer be a resident there. For me, Mr. Phipps problem on this matter is an ethical one, regardless of what the law might be. What he evidently did just wasn't the right thing for an ethical man to do.
And if he did not know that, he should have.
If May Smith is truly an old lady as she claims, I think I've found her mentioned in the Ogden Standard.
tht must be her mother ...
haha, BB
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