Query: What's up with the Standard's spotty election coverage, people?
To kick off today's discussion, we're going to take a novel approach this morning, and focus on two important 2009 municipal election stories which have not appeared in the Standard-Examiner. During this off-year election, and in the face of demonstrated voter apathy (primary election turnout was around 9%), it seems us that the Standard-Examiner ought to be doing everything possible to heighten the awareness of its general readership concerning public events occurring during this election cycle. So far, in our view however, the Std-Ex's performance has been spotty at best. Here are a couple of examples of what we're talking about:
1) On October 5, the Standard prominently announced the Weber County Women's Legislative Council Meet the Candidates Night, which was held on October 6. Weber County Forum did its part in post-event reporting of course, with this article, published the very night of the event, which provoked a robust discussion within the comments section, of the numerous interesting revelations which emerged during that entertaining and informative public meeting. By contrast, the Std-Ex has yet to publish a single word about this event, even though we know Scott Schwebke was in attendance, scribbling pages upon pages of copious notes. Oddly enough, the Std-Ex now seems to have dropped this story entirely; and we'd like to know why. Perhaps Std-Ex publisher Lee "Gondola Boy" Carter didn't want to report that Boss Godfrey Ticket At Large "B" candidate Phipps was the only candidate among the eight who was dumb enough to admit considering Boss Godfrey's Gargantuan $143 mil Condo/hotel/Golf Course Boondoggle to be still "on the table." Maybe the Standard didn't want to report that our council, which has been recently and regularly accused by the Standard-Examiner of "obstructionism," actually votes in favor of Boss Godfrey proposals 98% of the time. Perhaps the Std-Ex editors thought Councilman Garcia's revelation that the $800 thousand annual subsidy which Ogden taxpayers fork over to the airport dwarfs the purported $250 thousand annual shortfall at the Mount Ogden Golf Course (the only public subsidy Boss Godfrey ever complains about) would be too painful for its taxpayer readers to take.
2) Despite the fact that well informed local political wonks have been aware since October 2 that the eight council candidates have agreed to hold a legitimate debate on October 14, at a mutually-agreed venue, with agreed ground rules, the Standard-Examiner hasn't said word one about it to its general readership. Whereas the Std-Ex has devoted barrels of ink to report on the (justifiable) refusal of the majority of council candidates to participate in Boss Godfrey's wholly bogus Channel 17 Dog & Pony show, the Std-Ex hasn't breathed a word about the scheduling of the October 14 debate.
We've criticised the Standard for its lop-sided coverage of 2009 election stories over the past months; and we believe our criticism has been mostly well justified. On top of that however, we believe we must consider those important stories the Standard doesn't write about; and we need to ask why these stories are being neglected.
We believe the Standard's omission of these stories serves as a particular disservice to its print readership, for whom our home town newspaper is virtually the only source of election news. Demographically, the Std-Ex readership tends to be a little longer in the tooth than internet readers; and yet older voters are the most reliable voters of all. Even the most reliable of voters can't make rational decisions however, if they're deprived of crucial election-related information.
So once again we ask our readers... why is the Standard neglecting those stories? Is there a hidden agenda to suppress the November General Election vote? Is there some reason the Std-Ex is reluctant to get the voters charged up in an election which could tip the balance of council power? Is the Standard-Examiner, which constantly rails on its own editorial pages about "voter apathy," nevertheless wilfully sending mixed messages? Or alternatively, is our home town newspaper simply not paying attention?
The world-wide blogosphere is sitting on the edge of its seat... waiting to find out what our gentle readers think about this.
Who will be the first to comment?
© 2005 - 2014 Weber County Forum™ -- All Rights Reserved
80 comments:
I have been wondering too why the SE, which did three, count 'em three, stories about the Godfrey Channel's "debate" [politely so called], hasn't so much as mentioned, so far, the upcoming candidate-organized debate except to note in one of its series of Godfrey Channel debate stories that candidates were working on organizing one.
We wholly agree with this critique. As a civic-minded news outlet, as much column should be devoted to election-spun daily news events, with a weekly no-spin focused editorial by a disinterested wonk.
Perhaps the Ogden High journalism program would benefit from some hands-on Woodward and Bernstein working Ogden City Politics; we would like to see what a couple of dozen seniors with one foot out the door could journal as regards Ogden City elections.
From Scott Schwebke's Twitter postings:
Cookies and blue haired old ladies. What a way to kick off the city council campaign season.
Scott, at least blue haired old ladies have hair!
He also bitches about Doug Stephens' visual aids: Candidates if your going to use a visual aid use something more hightech than flourescent green posterboard, magic marker
Scott, if you hate your job so much, why not just leave or at least get your medication adjusted?
I think the standard has no STANDARDS when it comes to the promotion of democracy here in the united states of America. I find it really shame full for the standard to not be promoting democracy when we have had close to 1000 of our troops give their lives to the war we are in right now. This is a slap in their faces and to say we want you to go and protect our country and fight for democracy in other lands, but we don't give a damn what happens here in our on city, state, nation. But in again telling people to go vote by way of the news paper cost money and not lives, so I guess that is more important. Money is always more important than lives. Just ask any republican when it comes to spending. Case in point. they would give $35,000,000.00 to build a soccer stadium but not for a veterans home.
OL
You have a link to those posting?
Curm,
http://twitter.com/ScottSchwebke
You may have to sign up for a twitter account to access it. Then search for Scott Schwebke. Tweets are 140 characters or less, so there is nothing more than what I posted.
The Standard dropped any pretext of neutrality weeks ago. It is no longer a secret to anyone that they are the slavish house organ of the morally bankrupt Godfrey machine.
Makes one wonder how the decision makers at the Standard can look at themselves in the mirror and not puke, especially the ones with journalism backgrounds.
i find it telling that the paper hasn’t yet put up a story on the “meet the candidates” event of tuesday night. it was a very good and informative event that was very well attended. standing room only to be specific. i want to thank those responsible for putting it together.
it would appear to me that the se is trying to marginalize the event of tuesday night while legitimizing the channel 17 kangaroo debates.
shame on the paper for not telling the whole story to the largest sector of their readership in ogden. this neglect to report on this event should end all questions as to the papers political bias. with the standard examiners reporter referring to you as “blue haired’’ and the publisher of the paper not even being willing to report on your event you must now start to realize that the paper is no longer the source of your unbiased news reporting nor does the paper have much respect for your position in life.
Ogden Lover: it is annoying that he is tweeting distaste for his work milieu rather than focusing on his work assignment. Its like me twittering from work: "could these stage-parents be any more annoying. just drop your brats off already". I wouldn't last a month with that attitude.
Thanks. OL.
OK, couple of points to be made about Mr. Schsebke's tweets [neither of which, by the way, indicate he hates his job.]
On the blue rinse set: Mr. Schwebke is, at least in part, a political reporter in that he covers Ogden City municipal politics. And he's been at it for some years. So he should know, and anyone who'se been involved much in electoral politics can tell him, there's one particular characteristic about "blue haired old ladies" at events like the one he was covering. They vote. Whooo boy, do they vote. Every damn time they get the chance, as a rule. And anyone involved in local campaigning who dismisses them out of hand would be making a big mistake. Even if a candidate disagrees with them, and doesn't reasonably expect to win many of their votes, it is essential that he or she treat them with respect. The candidates know this. Mr. Schwebke should too.
So, Mr. Schwebke, sit back, remember you're being paid to be there as the blue-haired ladies are not, enjoy the free cookies, and recognize that however far from the world of the SE newsroom [--- excuse me, "content center" ---] those ladies seem to you to be, they matter and candidate events they organize matter. And the candidates know it even if you don't.
2. Advice to candidates about visuals: At such meetings, candidate visuals only have two requirements: (a) they need to be plainly visible to those in the back row and (b) they need to make whatever point they're making plainly. High tech is nice, but it also can be expensive. Oak tag and markers are not. And, if one is running [or even claims to be running] a shoestring grassroots "I am a man of the people; my opponent is a special interests fat cat" campaign, oak tag and markers can be more effective than some high-tech display.
Actually, OL, I found this twitter [from August] more disturbing: Ogden City Council claims administration is trying to pull a fiscal fast one. Not so says admin. So what's new?
Well, you see, it's sort of the job of an urban daily, when such charges are made, to look into the matter, and let its readers know whether the charge is a valid one, whether it stands up on the evidence or not, whether the administration is or is not "pulling a fast one." It's what newspapers used to do regularly. I'm told it's what the SE used to do regularly in days gone by.
Reporting the Council's claim and the Administration's denial should be the beginning of the reporting. Not the end.
Thanks to all of you WC Forum posters who have commented above. I have found your comments quite informative and intrigueing. I guess as an "old blue-haired" person (I'm taking that to mean all white haired elderly people who use a bluing rinse so their white hair isn't the color of urine)I will have to check out the SE's virtual site.
Kudos to Don Carver who pointed out in his letter to the editor this morning more campaign shenanigans by David Phipps, candidate for the At-Large B Council Seat against Bart Blair. Mr. Carver mentions that he has seen a number of campaign signs for Phipps around town, but one in particular caught his eye because a paper note had been attached to it. He read the note that was intended for the renter of the home and stated that Phipps had an agreement with the management company of the rental and the renter was warned not to remove the signs and he was appalled that a small number of wealthy business interests were promoting Phipps. (The candidate financial reports filed by Phipps proves that fact. Apparently Phipps is using his contacts in the real estate field, which is no crime, but people need to be aware of his campaign tactics.) The renter told Mr. Carver that he supported Bart Blair and not Phipps because Candidate Blair supported retaining our open space. Mr. Carver offered a great suggestion – “I would like to call on local residents who’ve had Phipps signs foisted on them to contact Blair’s people and get a sign supporting him. Post the sign next to the original to clarify which candidate had Phipps signs foisted on them to contact Blair’s people and get a sign supporting him. Post the sign next to the original to clarify which candidate you support. The people of Ogden must speak out for themselves. Do not let a few people interested in in buying up our land have the only say.” (We need to tell our neighbors and friends about the differences between Phipps and Blair, including honesty and integrity.)
There are other crucial differences between Blair and Phipps. Phipps has indicated that he supports the Mayor on the more than $8 million golf course makeover, and all of Godfrey’s proposed downtown developments at taxpayer expense because Godfrey is a business genius. Phipps has told us that he is a realtor and sees nothing wrong with developing our foothills and open spaces with condos and a hotel. He doesn’t even own his own home in Ogden – he rents! He has lived in Ogden only one short year and doesn’t pay property taxes! On the other hand, Blair’s knowledge and his profession is in the financial field. He is well aware of the dangers posed by overspending. He is a partner in a third generation family business in Ogden and wants to save some of the same venues for his children so that they have happy memories of their hometown also. Blair wants to maintain our open spaces and parks¸ and feels that Ogden shouldn’t look to increasing future property tax revenue by developing condos and a hotel in our open spaces. He told me that he feels that economic development should be centered in downtown locations.
Please spread the word on these two council candidates. We can’t let Council At-Large Seat B filled by someone who is new to Ogden and doesn’t know or care about what the residents want.
Schwebke might be upset about the mayor saying "the newspaper often gets things very wrong." in his email to me yesterday.
And they're still recovering, because they have been kissing his feet for so long -- to be slapped in the face like that must be hard.
TLJ
For starters, I've decided that I won't do business with any compamy who advertises in the Standard-Examiner.
I invite my fellow WCF readers to do the same.
I just went by Blair's Chevron on 30th to pick up a Bart Blair sign. More are due to arrive next Monday.
Schwebke's story on the blue haired ladies will appear. It's being held up while the editors carefully make subtle changes to give it the right spin.
Ticked:
Think you're wrong about boycotting SE advertisers. I understand you're ticked off, but your solution would in the end hurt Ogden, hurt Ogden businesses [not all of which are in Hizzonah's corner], hurt city tax revenues, and so hurt city services. And it will do real damage to Ogden if, perchance, a boycott pushed the SE over the edge into closing.
Here's the problem: Ogden lives in the news shadow of SLC. One of the things that helps give Ogden an identity of its own, and helps maintain it, is the fact that it has something close to a home town daily paper in the SE. I know the SE is not exclusively Ogden's paper and that its circulation is larger outside the city than in and that it took the word "Ogden" off the title. Nevertheless, many still, think of it, and speak of it, as "the Ogden Standard Examiner" and it still serves that role.
And it's an important role. At most, maybe ten percent of what the paper covers is Ogden Municipal politics. It also reports on local sports, on crime, on local business news, local feature stories, on local history [C. Trentelman's occasional Ogden history columns, e.g.], on water matters, on other environmental news, on forest fire conditions and outbreaks, on public health matters [today's H1N1 story, e.g.] and a good deal more.
However annoyed we might get about its municipal political coverage [or selective lack thereof],it's be a mistake I think to punish its advertisers in hopes of punishing the paper's editors or owners. Advertisers need the SE to let buyers, in Ogden and out, know what they have on offer, and that's important too.
In short, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. The SE, flawed as its municipal political coverage is, is important to Ogden. Being annoyed at its news judgment in re: the Godfrey Administration and the Godfrey Council Ticket [Phipps, etc.] doesn't change that.
Start your own news outlet, instead of tearing theirs down.
All the lumpencitizens are asking of our home town newspaper is fair and equal treatment of election issues, south bench.
If the standard-examiner won't do that, perhaps it's time to burn the Sanduskey carpetbagger newspaper to the ground.
Ya "Ticked"
Quit trying to cause trouble for the Devil, after all his picture is on great firecrackers and he is responsible for that great chocolate cake recipe.
Also don't want you saying anything bad to anybody about the pedophile West Valley cop that was arrested yesterday for trying to get next to a 15 year old boy. After all we must consider the good work he has done as a high school resource officer.
Well, Oz, if you think Ogden would be better off with no paper than with the SE, then that's what you think. And for all that we do agree on, which is much, on that point we disagree. Ogden would be, I think, immeasurably worse off without a daily mullet wrapper, and the only one we've got is the SE. [E.g. at the lawn sign letter in today's paper. No SE, no way that gets out and broadly read.]
There's an old joke about a poker player coming to a new town, looking for a game, is told there's only one, but it's a fixed game. He plays anyway, and when asked why, he says:
"It may be a crooked game, but it's the only game in town."
Much like Ogden and the SE, perhaps Tilted as its judgment may be, it's all we've got.
Schwebke has his nose so far up Godfrey's butt that he can see daylight through Godfrey's throat when he opens his eyes.
Schwebke should be summarily fired for a lapse like this, although with Gondola Boy Carter firmly at the controls of our former home town newspaper, we know this can never happen.
Two minutes alone in a dark Ogden back alley with Schwebke, that's all I ask.
Curm i disagree with you. I think Ticked suggestion is a good one. All actions have to start somewhere. Whats wrong with a grass roots level of civil disobediance.
Residents could, if they preferred, even tell the owners of the businesses how they feel about the paper and that if the owner of the business doesn't start getting vocal with the paper that you will take your business else where.
What better way to get the suits of Sanduskeys attention than to have their advertisers calling them to complain that the paper's political views and explaining that the paper's support of a corrupt administration are costing them business.
The Sanduskey suits would then be the masters of their own fate. Start giving the residents unbiased news and stop the cover up or suffer the consequences as advertiseing clients go elsewhere.
I like it.
SchwebkeN, SchwebkeM:
Reporters report what news editors assign them to report. If the SE editors wanted the last candidate meeting reported promptly, it would have been. If the news editors decided they weren't going to be played by the administration into making the Godfrey Channel Debate story a four piece story as Pureheart Patterson kept on issuing press releases, then they would not have run four stories, front paging only the ones driven by the press releases.
Generally, papers print the news coverage the editors [or publishers] think should be printed --- or want printed, if that's different --- and they don't print news the editors [or publishers] don't think should be printed --- or don't want printed, if that's different.
So on matters involving what stories appear and what stories don't, I'd lay off the reporters whose job requires them to cover what the boss wants covered.
Mr. Schwebke showed a lapse of good judgment in his tweets, I agree. But he shouldn't have to take the heat for what stories the SE does and what stories it doesn't do.
Just heard a rumor that Howell specifically told Schwebke to attend the event but not to write an article about it.
"It may be a crooked game, but it's the only game in town."
That's a sucker's game, any way you cut it.
I'd love to get a piece of your betting action, Curm.
Look me up the next tome you're on the street.
I tend to disagree with the above poster on Schwepke. While Schwepke obviously is not a very competent, curious or interesting reporter, I do not believe he has any say in whether his work gets published or not.
I think you did however properly identify the real obstacle for the truth getting to the Standard readers - that being Carter the Publisher.
I feel sorry for the journalists that work for the Standard, it must be very difficult for those with integrity to have to labor under this corrupt regime that owns the paper.
I believe that Carter is perfectly willing to sacrifice the paper's journalistic integrity for the bottom line. It occurs to me that the real estate interests, along with the other Godfreyite public trough sloppers who advertise in the Standard, are really holding the axe over the paper's head to support the morally bankrupt Godfreyite movement. Like the cops trying to solve a crime, all you have to do is look for who benefits from it. In the Standard's refusal to be fair and honest with the voters of Ogden, look at who benefits from the paper's slavish support of Godfrey - mayoral insiders, the real estate hustlers and others who benefit directly from Godfrey's cronyism.
And Mr. Curmudgeon, I guess we will have to disagree on how good or bad it would be for Ogden if the Standard folded. To me it comes down to - would the citizen be better off without a daily mullet wrapper or would they be better off with it being supplied by a morally bankrupt and sorry assed excuse of a newspaper that was participating in the rape of the whole town?
In any event I do not think if a boycott of Standard advertisers did actually get any legs that it would result in the demise of the paper. It could however get the bean counters attention and maybe they would modify their stance on their slavish support of the corrupt Godfrey regime. I would love to see a boycott gain a little momentum although I doubt it will. I think the same effect could be obtained if a significant number of citizens just started contacting the advertisers and voicing concern with the Standard's dishonest political reporting and their support of it.
Even if the Standard did go broke I don't think it would be a great loss. Some other source would fill the gap anyway. There are probably a lot more people in Ogden that don't read the Standard than do. Where do they get this other info that you fear would be lost if the paper died? If people really want certain content I have faith that some one will step forward and supply it. The old supply and demand thing that seems so quaint these days is still really at the heart of true commerce, not the Godfreyite version, but real business where the public's real needs are met.
I say if the Standard doesn't start changing their ways and being fair, honest and balanced in their esteemed fourth estate roll then the bastards ought to die.
Meanwhile I'm all for a boycott or contact campaign directed toward the paper's major advertisers.
Well, lots of disagreement tonight. Let me address some of it.
Murray: It was the punch line of an old joke, not a betting strategy. Besides, gambling is illegal in the great state of Utah, and so I would never dream of placing a bet here in Zion. And I tell my bookie that every time I see him.
On the boycotting advertisers matter. Here's why I think it's a bad idea [besides the one about we're better off with a listing SE than no paper at all, which I've already explained].
1. It is unwise to call a boycott unless you have some reason to think it might be broad enough to be effective. [Labor leaders learned this over time the heard way.] Otherwise it just demonstrates your weakness, not your strength. And however into city politics we wonks here at WCF are, most Ogdenites are not. [Note turnout at the recent primaries.] If one out of ten people on the street in Ogden could name the candidates for Council they are eligible to vote for, or even half of them, in their districts, I'd be astonished. And so I doubt much of a boycott could be mounted.
2. But for me, there is a bigger problem. Even presuming a boycott would have a significant impact, it's a bad idea. Some here think the SE's editorial policy and its news judgment is being driven by its bean counters: e.g., tilt toward Hizzonah and the Godfrey Ticket in the news and editorial columns, or Hizzonah's business cronies will cut advertising which we cannot afford.
Let us, just for the sake of argument, assume that something like that is going on. And we all, or most of us, agree that it is wrong and a violation of good journalistic ethics for the business office to dictate news coverage.
Here's my problem: a boycott of advertisers would be aimed at doing exactly the same thing: having the bean counters at the SE demand a change in news coverage.
No. Absolutely not. Bad idea. I don't want the bean counters telling the news editors to do pro-Administration coverage. I also don't want the bean counters telling the news editors to do anti-Administration coverage. Having the business office drive news judgments is wrong,always, no matter in which direction the tilt goes.
So from my POV, trying to exert pressure on the bean counters by boycotting advertisers so the news policy will change is wrong. Just plain wrong. Always. Even if the results would tip the coverage my way.
Further deponent sayeth not.
curm
your position about the paper reminds me of a great old western movie "silverado" where the town was run by a crooked sherriff.
we're no better off with the se as our local news source then those town folk in looking for justice from their sherriff in the movie.
Disgusted:
Maybe I'll reply when I get over the shock of hearing "Silverado" described as a great old western. [Great old westerns are "Red River," "Shane," "High Noon" and "Stagecoach."]
You guys are a hoot! Do any of you have legitmate jobs that actually contribute to society or are you professional hand wringers?
Curm: or maybe Paint Your Wagon or Good, Bad & Ugly, or Hang Em High ... (Terror in Tiny Town?) but Silverado? Nope.
***************** Back to Topic
I dunno, but some intrepid reporter wanted to know in what context godfrey said "the newspaper often gets things very wrong." If the paper/owners/editors are so beholden to godfrey for whatever reason, they need to know what he says about them behind their backs! Bravo to the one who boldly asked the golden question!
TLJ
purple haze
I notice you are reading it. Maybe you ought to go get a job, eh?
I'm with purple haze on this one.And I do have job.I rubberneck here sometimes because like a car wreck you don't want to look but you just have too.
The was an independent paper here in Ogden a few years ago that was critical of the mayor, publish the slum homes he owns and rents. He then listed the homes under an LLC so it isn't tracked under his name in county records. The mayor pulled all of the city ads and the paper went under.
The SE counts on city public notices and ads to maintain their budgets.
Great name you gave your self "purple haze". Around here "purple haze" is what we call noxious intestinal gas! I guess maybe you know yourself best.
I would like to get a job, maybe the mayor could hire me in a do nothing, know nothing featherbedding job with the city? Oh wait, he already hired Gieger's wife to do that one.
Maybe he could hire me in a phony real estate job in the development department just to shut me up. Whoops that one already went to Glasmann.
Damn, there must be something I could do for the mayor, after all he does surround himself with a bunch of know nothing hangers on who do nothing but stroke his ego and kiss his butt. Heck, maybe I could even replace you?
Purple Haze, Shadows, Blaine Carl. Welcome back. Are you so sensitice and tender that you cannot tolerate any criticism of your leader? I contribute to Ogden sociry by living, working and raising ,my family here. I pay my taxes and that gives me the right to speak put ande criticize current leadership. When I see something amiss I attempt to make my voice heard and to correct the injustice.
Wow, squirrel patroller lee carter must really have something to hide, and apparently lying little matty knows what it is. It must be bad because clearly this election coverage has been insane, ass-backwards and almost certainly what lying little matty desires. Curm pointed out many oddities in the coverage so far. It can't be a threat to pull advertizing, Ogden City doesn't spend like RC Willy, Fisher and his flippers don't represent much advertizing and push comes to shove, who needs who more?
Seems like a job for a good investigative reporter, oh Moulton is in SLC.
I must disagree with those who ridicule this web site. I work hard on my feet all day and much enjoy coming home and soaking them while I have a glass of red wine and read the articles and remarks made here. Although there is some silly an dumb statements made here I find most of what is written to be wise and informative. There does not seem to be any other place in Ogden that has such a wide range of information and truth about what the politicians in Weber are up to. I am constantly suprised by the information that the news paper does not print but which one can find here. I do wish that the moderator would delete the posts that are insulting or crude as they just take away from the rest that are here. There are some very wise and well informed people who write here and if they are unemployed like some say, then I am glad they are spending their time informing us about the truth of what is going on in Ogden politics. One thing that does bother me, and I wish would be erased, is the periodic attacks on Bill Glassman. I used to work for Bill along time ago and I can tell you he is a very kind and considerate gentleman who treated his employees very well. I think those who talk bad about him are wrong and should try to be more kind and truthful about him.
Connie
Oh, I almost forgot, phipps allegedly rents a place on 25th just below Van Buren, some of his neighbor still question if anyone actually resides there.
One says she rarely sees human activity and can't recall ever seeing children. um?
Dr.Wu and Purple Haze:
Sorry to disappoint you guys. Have a job. Been working at it for forty years now. Sorry 'bout that.
Ray Vaughn:Try using spell check next time.So what do you do about all the injustices that have been perpetrated against you besides bitching about them here?
For all statistical purposes, I am unemployed (or now included among the underemployed, who are not counted in the first statistic) - but I have a job. Married with child ... domestic engineer ... mother, nurse, laundress, cleaner, chef, personal assistant, accountant, dog trainer, homework tutor, driver, lover, estate planner, financial manager, gardener, interior designer, and lots more ... a break from the monotony of it all comes in the form of posting here - looking stuff up, comparing peoples' responses, digging at the mayor's massive piles of %&*#, watching movies, exercising, playing on face book,
Stephen
That is a pretty shallow criticism. Can't you find anything else to go after than spelling? How about coming up with something intelligent to do with the issues. Or maybe you could tell us just what it is you are doing to make this a better place to live - other than sitting back smugly attacking the messenger while ignoring the message? It is a noble thing and valuable service for people to point out the emperor has no clothes like a lot of those on this blog do. Give it a try, reach down inside yourself and see if you can come up with something pertinent and smart.
Ah, the lovely Jennifer, one job that Bush, Clinton and Bush couldn't send overseas, a job most folks my age watched performed thru-out our childhoods.
The corporate oligarchy has tried their hardest to eliminate that position and our public seemed to just passively accept it as a reality. Speaking from personal experience I can assure you that you'll realize a great reward for serving in that capacity. At the risk of suffering a huge backlash I'll also state that if one wants to find where our country has missed the boat, it lies with the elimination of your current occupation.
Bill C.
a big part of me likes my current job -- some part of me is feeling cheated: I achieved a degree in Econ/Math three years ago, and this is the longest period of not holding a paying 40hr/week job in my life since age 17 ... sort of an empty feeling, though sometimes happy that I find opportunities to use that stuff now & then (lately it seems, much to the chagrin of hizzonah [grin] ). Thank you for the validation.
TLJ
Bill C:
As a formal Naval intelligence officer, I'm prepared to assist you in determining if Phipps indeed resides downtown. I also have acces to a cadaver dog if you think that would help. When should we begin? Simper Fi.
bill c
what his house number on two bit street. i go that way to and from work each day. i can check it out twice a day to see if anyone is actually living there.
Lt. Cmdr USN - Semper Fi???
Common Dallas, who ya trying to bull shit?
Jennifer. My hat's off to you! You truly are doing the most important job of all of us. Certainly more meaningful and important to society than all the Godfreyites and their opponents put together.
And to my new friends "Purple Haze" and "Dr Wu", I'll match up the good I have done for society, the jobs I have created, the employees I have paid, the Ogden taxes I have paid and the charity I have given - to all the Godfreyite Gaggle combined.
You Godfrey sycophants seem to all be the same, you can never address the issues and horrible damage you are doing to Ogden's financial future. Instead you can only make snide remarks about the people who are pointing out your lying, incompetence and your lame and loser business deals. None of you can make anything happen except the squandering of public tax monies. You lie, you cheat, you dream great grandiose and stupid dreams, but none of you can do squat without the tax payer's funds supporting you. You and the mayor are a disgrace, the gang that can't shoot straight. The whole damn gaggle of you ain't worth a pitcher of warm piss, and the tax payers of Ogden will be paying through the nose for the next fifty years to get out of the enormous financial hole you have dug for us.
Prove me wrong if you can losers.
Isn't "Simper Fi" the slogan for the Marines? What kind of Naval Officer would use their bell hop's slogan? I believe we have a poser in "Cmdr Duke". Imagine that, and on this blog of all places!
I just got a phone call from Godfrey's proctaligest and he said that he just found his head in his stomach.
I thinks Phipps is 1083 25th. It's on the south side, the house with the large Phipps sign. Neighbors are right,there never seems to be activity. I'm retired and do some consulting work next to PPC. I think he is a PPC salesman. Is he not? He sure spends much of his time in there.
Steve Marco south ogden, why is a resident of South Ogden worrying about what residents of Ogden are saying about Ogden city issues? Unlike Me. Phipps I own a home in Ogden, have raised a fgamily here and send my children to local public schools. Contacting local officals and voicing my concerns is only considered bitchin by people who do not agree or people who live outside of Ogden. Move to Ogden and then your opinion will have a impact on Ogden city policies.
"..Try using spell check next time..."
We are sure everyone is impressed with your mastery of computerized spell check; impressive.
For thinking people: all language including spelling and grammar, exists in a state of flux. The word you spell correctly today strains and champs to become free of its bridle of convention, even as you speak it.
Guaranteed, all of your correctness and exacting meticulousness in this regard will seem as important in 100 years, as leaning middle English seems to most of you now.
Kan wii has bakon nowz?
i live on the block. david phipps may use 1083 25 street as a primary residence but i will guarantee you he and his family do not live there.
mm
Wouldn't it be funny if after all the BS last go round, voter challenges on residence and such, if lying little matty's strategy now is to actually run a non-resident for Council.
I mean, here we have the reincarnation of the Grand Wazoo, a 26 year old wizzard that has all the answers, he told the crowd he could solve all of Ogdens woes, this despite the fact that he has just begun his post educational first step into the real world.
I'm sure we all trust that by allowing fisher to build a 30 foot extention on top of the Star Noodle building will produce the world's highest acclaimed high adventure disco, thus bringing thousands of well moneyed high adventure seeking bumpers and grinders to our quaint little town.
And by destroying the eastbench parklands and open space by building un-needed and unwanted hotels and condos will effectively place millions of dollars in every citizens pocket, from Ron Claire to West Ogden.
He stated he's been recruiting companies to relocate to Ogden for years, and has the knowhow to fill Washington Blvd with high adventure retail outlets, people will come from every corner of the globe to purchase gloves, goggles, spandex riding suits and all forms of high adventure accessories which they'll proudly display as they twist frug, bump and grind in total euphonious bliss at the high adventure Noodle disco til the wee hours, after which they'll board the most super-duper high adventure mode of transit and most sacred high adventure monument to stupidity, the high adventure urban gondola and be wisked back up to their decadent hillside accomidations.
Can't we see it? How fortunate we must be to have been chosen to be graced by the return of the Grand Wazoo, his wisdom can lead us far in surpassing all the geigarian dreams. If it could only be true?
A Wazoo is only as Grand as the Mystery Horn it blows.
How in the heck can you afford to take a leave of absence from your job to run for city council?
There's something fishy here.
Paula, where ya been? There's been something fishy here from the get go & beyond. If he's the successful real estate flipper he claims to be, then he probly can afford it, but Earlier in this very same post, someone noted he spends a lot of time at PPC.
just sayin
BB
mm - do tell ... if you know more, please spill it.
if he's not an Ogden resident, then he's O U T
How do you establish Ogden Residency?
A mail box drop? A utility bill? A dozen rental properties in your llc's name?
Is he registered to vote in Ogden?
Does his drivers license indicate an Ogden address? (it's required by law to change your address if you move)
Are the utilities in his name?
Is he in the local ward?
Are his kids in Ogden schools?
Interesting speculation, but where is the proof of his "non residence"
Other than those "proofs" of residence, I think the opposition should stay focused on the issues, there is plenty of ammo to shoot him down therein.
I looked into residence requirements after the infamous voter challenges in 2007. If you register to vote at a particular address, and thus affirm in writing that you reside at that address, the law creates a presumption that the residence is valid and puts a pretty high burden of proof on anyone who would allege otherwise. If you divide your time between two residences, the law is ambiguous enough that you can generally choose which one you want for your voting address.
Based on the allegations above, I'm guessing that Phipps might divide his time between the rented house on 25th Street and his previous residence in the Salt Lake area. Even if this is true, as long as he spends a significant amount of time at the Ogden address, the law will be on his side when he claims it as his legal residence.
That said, it doesn't look good for a candidate to be a part-time resident of the city he proposes to represent. But this should be portrayed as a reason not to vote for him, not a reason to disqualify him from running.
"Simper Fi?"
S-E-M-P-E-R F-I, Lt Cmdr Squid, spelled with an "E" is the Marine Corps motto.
You Navy pukes use "Anchors Aweigh" or some such nonsense.
An intelligence officer? If you don't even know the right motto to use, what the hell would you find casing out some house?
Well if he didn't live in Ogden according to the rules he should be disqualified ... On page 9 of the candidate guide to elections, it states the cadidate must:
"Be a resident of Ogden City or resident of a recently annexed area for a period of 12 consecutive
months immediately preceding the date of election." Date of the election not specified, but methinks the first (aka Primary) election counts.
Sorry "not a lawyer, but ... " them be the rules.
just sayin
BB
Phipps moved from Sugarhouse to Ogden less than a year ago to work with his daddy, Kevin Phipps (Ogden Valley resident). Anyone in the Eccles Park Ward around here to verify if the Phipps family is actually involved with the neighborhood flock?
As mentioned by "not a lawyer but"
disproving residency seems to be waste of time. Focusing on the fact that Phipps has lived in this community for less than a year and has only 1 Ogden resident contributing hard earned cash to his campaign (Kym Buttschardt) seems to be the best approach to me.
So he is a devout Mormon whose primary local contributer makes beer and owns and operates a tavern? Nothing new in Utah, the hypocrites. Never could figure that whole profit from sin and sinners as long as it is legal.
Take away his temple recommend
just sayin
BB
BB: I don't dispute them rules. But as long as Phipps was spending at least part of his time at the Ogden residence over the required year, he's probably ok as far as them rules go.
It wouldn't make any difference if Phipps moved here yesterday, or not at all. The final decider on the legality of his residency will be the mayor's lap dog Williams who has never, not even once, gone against the wishes of the little big guy in the mayor's chair.
Just like the programing on Ch-17, the laws only apply to things the mayor wants them to apply to. The mayor in fact is the law in Ogden. If you don't believe me ask him, or his henchmen Griener & Williams.
Jes sayin - as seems so popalar to write here these days.
I've noticed that most if not all of the Letters to the Editor have run against the council people who boycotted the Channel 17 debates. Can anyone explain this?
Also, I'm wondering if this most recent debate, held by the Weber County's Ladies Auxilliary, set up by Ms. van Hoozer, is not in its own way as biased as the Channel 17debate was purported to be by this blog?
I fail to see the difference. The saddest aspect is that it seems the election is headed toward the "whose for" or "whose against" the Mayor instead of who will best represent the people. Seems to be the same old schtick.
Just Wonderin:
Nor sure why you think the WCLA meet the candidates event was "just as biased in its own way" as the Godfrey Channel "debate" [politely so called]. The Channel 17 event was arranged by the head of Channel 17, which the Mayor has said exists to present the Administration's POV. The host, selected by the Channel 17 manager, was the host of the Mayor's own TV show. He was [allegedly] the sole source of the questions asked [and not asked, which may have mattered more].
At the WCLA, the questions came from the audience. That alone, seems to me, is good grounds for conclusing that the WCLA was, on its face, not "just as biased" [in terms of how it was organized and conducted] as the Godfrey channel event.
As for the letters tilting one way in the SE: here's my guess. The Godfrey ticket is a well organized group. It has sufficient funds [mostly real estate lobby money] behind it and some experienced advisors. They organized a letter writing campaign among their supporters and got them submitted to the SE with the right spacing to keep them coming up periodically. Just a guess, as I said, but had I been a Godfrey Ticket consultant, that's what I'd have suggested they do.
As for this: "The saddest aspect is that it seems the election is headed toward the "whose for" or "whose against" the Mayor instead of who will best represent the people. Seems to be the same old schtick." --- Well, Just W., here's the problem: there are those who think the Mayor's proposals for Ogden "best represent the people," and there are others who believe that they don't. So partisans on both sides of that would argue, and honestly I think, that in opposing the other "side," they are in fact "representing the people" and the people's best interests. Or so it seems to me.
[Full disclosure, in case it's not already clear: I favor the independent candidates in this Council election, and not the Godfrey Ticket candidates -- e.g. Phipps, Hains, etc. And in doing that, Just W., I'm pretty convinced I am supporting candidates who will represent the people. ]
Just wonderin'
the most recent debate wasn't a debate, it was set up as a Meet the Candidates. It wasn't the Weber County Ladies Auxiliary, it was the Weber County Womens Legislative Council who coordinated the meeting and invited the public to attend ... it was announced in the paper on Monday, Oct 5.
This group is akin to the League of Women Voters, and do not have any agenda but to get the information out and get people to vote.
The ch17 debate was organized at the behest of the mayor, the mayors office phoned the candidates and gave them short notice and ultimatums about appearing, the public was not invited - and the moderator was the same person who does the mayor's very own phone-in TV shows on ch17. How much more biased can you get?
J Neil
Got it in a nutshell, JN. Nicely done.
Sorry Frank, I'm afraid I had to delete that one as facially defamatory; even though I've heard the same rumors from other reliable people.
If you can supply a reliable link, say to a state database, of course I'll put your comment right back up.
Sorry... I just try to conscienciously play by the rules, especially with regard to folks who aren't public figures.
I appreciate the replies and explanations behind them as per my thoughts on the debates. I suppose there's a difference between a debate and a meet the candidate night, but even though I missed that night I'd imagine the difference was miniscule.
Whether or not the questions come from the audience or the Mayor, what difference does that make? Even though the Mayor's debate questions would probably be slanted toward his position, and asked by his Channel 17 lackey, wouldn't that give the anti mayor candidates a good opportunity to counter his position and inform the people as to how and why their position? Is the Mayor so strong a personality that he could influence a candidate's words? If so, what happens if such a cowed candidate makes it to the council?
My apologies for using the wrong name for the WCWLC, but isn't there a tie in with those in charge of that organization and the anti-Mayor bunch?
Except for the Frank piece, it was nice to see some respectible replies instead of the expected severe flame jobs. Makes for better discussion.
Just Wonderin':
The problem is more fundamental than that. The mayor has no business using taxpayer dollars for political purposes. Although I can't speak for any of the candidates, I think they had ample grounds to decline purely on that basis.
Remember, this is the same mayor who uses city-sponsored newspaper ads and utility bill inserts for legislative lobbying and thinly disguised electioneering. This is the same mayor who uses the official city web site to broadcast (and prominently highlight) his personal attacks against Jesse Garcia.
There comes a point where a person of conscience must simply choose not to participate in such unethical activities.
The WCF is not lock-step on any one issue.
Tendencies, sure; and a strong lean toward responsible civic mindedness.
Even a Democrat or two.
The WCF is an important news source.
Just Wonderin
The mayor has given all who oppose him or his methods ample reasons to distrust him. He repeatedly lies and manipulates facts and circumstances to meet his own agenda
I think it perfectly reasonable for these honorable candidates to not participate in what has now become widely recognized as the "sham debates" or the "empty chair debates"
The mayor has complete editorial control of everything appearing on Ch-17, and considering his dismal ethical record there is very little doubt in any rational person's mind that he would have used this control to leave anything a candidate said that he didn't like on the cutting room floor.
Once some one has proven that they are a lying rat, like the mayor has done over and over again, how could any rational or honorable person trust them?
If you really are "wondering" like your handle would have us believe, I suggest you look deeper into the issues and what and who the individual candidates really represent, and don't get hung up on this sham debate and who or who didn't attend - like the mayor wants you to.
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