Never underestimate the wordly expeience of that seemingly mild-mannered guy on the bus, with his nose buried in a book
By Curmudgeon
Hell of an interesting story front-paged in Sunday's Standard-Examiner by Scott Schwebke, about D.B. Cooper, the now legendary skyjacker who parachuted out of a commercial jet plane carrying $200K in ransom money, and disappeared from history.
Uncovering his true identity and fate has become almost a cottage industry among crime writers. But if what's reported in today's Std-Ex proves out, D.B. Cooper was a faculty member [ROTC instructor] at Weber State University when he pulled off his crime.
So, you out there who would cavalierly dismiss all those faculty types as other-worldly nerds, think twice. That mild-mannered professor with his nose in a book on the bus yesterday morning may have depths unsuspected in his [or her, for that matter] off-campus life. Ya never know....
Update 11/2/08 10:45 a.m. MT: This morning's Std-Ex story adds tantalizing new information in re the locally-centered D.B. Cooper story:
Attorney focusing on former WSU ROTC instructor
© 2005 - 2014 Weber County Forum™ -- All Rights Reserved
26 comments:
I could not believe what I saw on the front page of the Standard this morning. I have been trying to find Wolfgang Gossett or someone who knew where he was for the last 20 years. He dropped completely out of sight or contact.
Wolfgang taught a night class in Parapsychology at East High in Salt Lake for many years. I attended the class every Wednesday night the last term that he taught it.
It was an incredible experience. One class was on the seven types of angels, one type of which takes human form, has sex, etc. It was as though he was telling us that he was that type.
He was in the process of writing a book on parapsychology and gave me copies of several of the proposed chapters. He was to let me know when it was published because he said he was being transferred to Oregon.
He also took another student, Delbert Armstrong and myself to lunch, after the course ended. During lunch he told us that Cache Valley is a sacred place which will be saved when the big eruption comes.
The most interesting bit of information in retrospect was that "Maurice Richards knows where the gold coins are buried by a cattle guard in Cache Valley".
Until I read today's paper I did not know that he and Maurice had ever had a boss-employee relationship.
Now I have become intrigued at remembering things Wolfgang taught and said in the classes.
My son and daughter-in-law attended a few classes with me. I am interested in learning of any other participants in his classes over the years. Please give me a call if you did attend any of the Wolfgang East High classes over the years.
He taught the most fascinating classes I have ever experienced.
Folks just plain lie a lot in Utah.
I can't tell you how many places I have heard touted by paranormalists as THE place that is so sacred that it will be the only place to survive the next cataclysm. Why is it always a place within their immediate region. How convenient. God strikes his wrath on the earth and he just so happens to spare Cache Valley. Is this stuff interesting. To the gullible, Sorry Dorothy. I am as interested in alternative views as the next free thinker but so many of these paranormalists just run at the mouth to eager and clueless listeners.
Tec, Thanks for calling me a clueless and eager listener.
I was taking a class for Pete's Sake--
You and I have never met to exchange words nor views so I think you are a little quick on the draw to give an opinion when you don't know all the facts.
Sorry again Dorothy, I did not mean for my coment to be taken personally. I was just amused to hear of even another sacred place. I lived in Arizona for many years and I had to hear this exact nonsense but referring to Sedona, Sonoita, Cochise Stronghold, Chiricahua....in New Mexico, it's Taos, Lama, etc...
In every case it's the same claim. Seems it's really where the last Ranbow gathering took place or where the most hippies go to do drum circles.
My question is always, why there? So all these post-suburban earthies can get there in the comfort of their SUV's. God is really on the side of the cunsumptive American. I guess he really doesn't give a rat's ass about the rest of the people in the world enough to give them a cataclysmic retreat like Cache Valley. And gold coins buried at the cattle crossing? Which myth is that? Anyway, Dorothy I was having a little fun and if you listened heartily and uncritically to all that mumbo jumbo whether it was in a class or not I would still have to give you a gullibility pin.
"I think you are a little quick on the draw to give an opinion when you don't know all the facts."
I forgot to ask what part of what you were listening to in that paranormal class is "fact".
I'm a little old fashioned but I went to school to learn facts. There is plenty of fantasy in the world in the form of books and movies. We can study fantasy in school but classes like you refer to do not study the paranormal as fantasy but rather take it as factual without the normally critical eye and ear. That methodology of acceptance without critique is antithetical to the foundations of higher learning.
Typical WSU professor. Their all terrists, in my view. I recommend that Weber State Colege should be dissolved, except for "The Institute," of course
Tec,
I would say you are not just a "little bit old fashioned" if all you went to school for was to get facts.
You must really have a lopsided view of the world. Many of the facts we were taught in school have been proved wrong or inconsistent. How do you know that the facts you learned are the correct facts?
Do you know how to listen to a beautiful piece of music just because it is beautiful and soothing and lovely or do you listen only to that which in your concept is a "fact"?
Poor man. You really do have my sympathy for having acquired such a closed mind to anything which you have not been previously exposed to unless you have proof that it is a "fact".
I am very curious as to how you expand your knowledge if you never accept any ideas unless they have previously been proved to be a "fact".
Who or what is your source to determine if a "fact" is really a "fact" if you never allow yourself to explore new ideas or concepts?
If you did not mean for me to take your comments personally then why did you address them to Dorothy?
You have my sympathy. Don't debunk my statements on this Blog intentionally using my name unless you can definitely prove I am wrong.
And for a P.S. - how do you in your wisdom prove to me that there are no sacred places -
Tech, there is a sacred place in Cache Valley, at the very northern end. The Bear River Masacre site.
It's where 300 to 500 Northwestern Shoshoni, men, women and children were butchered on January 29th, 1863. Prior to that day it was just a prefered winter camp, it's now very sacred hallowed ground now.
It's the worst single masacre of indigenous people on U.S. soil, but never mentioned in history books. Everyone is familiar with Washita, Sand Creek and Wounded Knee, but very few, even locally know much about the masacre at Boa Ogoi, as the Shoshoni call it.
I don't know what the modern definition of catastophic event is, but it seems to me that the Cache Valley has all ready had one.
Thank you for your input, Bill.
I had never stopped to consider that the Bear River Massacre Site is in Cache Vally.
I would agree with you that the Massacre was a catastrophic event.
DL:
You wrote: Don't debunk my statements... unless you can definitely prove I am wrong and how do you in your wisdom prove to me that there are no sacred places.
Sorry, DL, but on this you are wrong. It is often impossible to prove a negative. If I contend that the world was created by the Flying Spaghetti Monster which is located in a parallel dimension, it cannot be proved that my claim is wrong. As far as universities go, the requirement that must be met for educated folk to accept a claim as "fact" --- meaning there is a strong to overwhelming probability of its being true --- is evidence, real-world evidence, establishing that probability.
I'm afraid Tec has the better of the argument here, insofar as knowledge [understand of real world phenomena] is concerned. Your insisting that he cannot prove the Cache Valley or anywhere else is not a "sacred space" carries, and should carry, no weight in a secular university setting. The entire burden of proof is, and must be, upon those claiming that any particular place is a "sacred space" [whatever that is].
Curmudgeon,
Now I know why this Blog and your comments can be so boring at times. Your inclination is to pontificate on everything whether you know anything about it or not.
If this Blog is supposed to represent a secular university setting then one of us has the wrong concept of what this Blog is all about.
The intent of my first post was to try to contact other persons who had attended Wolfgang Gossett's classes.
Since you nor Tec evidently ever attended any of those classes I think you are sticking your nose in where it was never invited by me.
You are both wasting my time with this drivel.
LOL, Curm. Let me applaud your application of purely "mechanical" logic.
Try this on however:
I consider the Ogden City Cemetary to be a sacred place, because scores of my ancestors are buried there (a few of the elder ones even with their multiple wives.) I consider the existence of their earthly ramains in that place to make this place sacred.
If I ask you to prove me wrong... that's just rhetorical.
Sacred places are where the "faithful" find them. Their "opinion" cannot be overruled by "logic."
Same thing goes for ancient burial or Indian massacre sites, I think.
"Sacredness" is not susceptiple to logical proof, methinks.
And what say you, oh creature of the mass, "scientific," "matrix" state?
And to Tec I say this: Try to remain open minded, especially with regard to matters which don't involve the five senses.
As Shakepeare's Hamlet said: "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
Dear DL:
You wrote: Now I know why this Blog and your comments can be so boring at times. Your inclination is to pontificate on everything whether you know anything about it or not. If this Blog is supposed to represent a secular university setting then one of us has the wrong concept of what this Blog is all about.
1. I was responding to your post replying to Tec's about what he thought was to be gained by schooling or education. Period. Nothing else.
2. Having spent the last 40 years plus working as a teacher and researcher in three universities, I think I may have some standing to offer an opinion on the topic Tec raised and you commented on m[i.e. the nature and purpose of education in general, and university educations in particular].
3. My comments dealt with your claims, and where I thought Tec had the better of the argument. Period.
4. I made no attack on you, and I'm sorry you are so sensitive when your ideas are challenged... and you should know by now that anything you post on a blog is subject to comment, favorable or otherwise, by anyone who reads it... that you feel it necessary to attack not merely the arguments offered, but the person offering them.
5. And to help you in future exchanges in public places, dismissing arguments that differ from your own as "pontificating" really doesn't accomplish much by way of supporting your own views.
Rudi:
Bill and Ms. L were using "sacred" in different ways in their posts, I think. You are using the term as Bill used it.
You wrote: "Sacredness" is not susceptiple to logical proof, methinks. Of course it isn't. Which means it's a matter of belief only, the recognition of which cannot be required of anyone not sharing "the feeling" -- i.e. the faith. A Shoshone site like the Bear River Massacre site may well be sacred to tribal members. It probably isn't to Rastafarians or Southern Baptists or New England congregationalists or Moslems. Palmyra, NY is a sacred site to many Utahans. It isn't to me.
All you're saying is that matters of faith [the Pope heads God's One True Church; an angel delivered inscribed golden plates to a struggling upstate NY farmer in the 19th century; Mahommed is the prophet of the one true God; there is some mystical sacredness in the Cache Valley -- or Sedona, Arizona, or Stonehenge etc. --- that the Ogden Valley does not share; and so on and so on, ad infinitum -- or ad nauseum, take your pick, are not susceptible to proof or disproof. They are matters of faith alone. I have no problem with that, so long as we recognize that that makes them matters of belief only, and not matters of knowledge.
Curm, I was using the term, sacred in a different context. But, because of what makes it sacred, I'm inclined to respect it. The other examples you pointed out, nah, only true believers.
The only things sacred in NY were probably destroyed by now, or closely guarded secrets to the remaining Seneca, Mohawks and Onida, of which, there are veryu few.
Geez Curm, the Polo Grounds is even gone. And, you are a fool to put the likes of a bum such as Gil Hodges in any Catagory headed by the likes of Willy McCovey.
BC:
The site of the Polo Grounds is not sacred ground to any but the ill-informed and badly raised. There is only one truly sacred site in the NY region. It is the former site of Ebbitt's Field in Brooklyn, since basely defiled by the corporate owners of Ebbitts Field Apartments, after being sold by the Arch Fiend, Walter O'Malley. Everyone properly brought up knows this.
Say Hey Curm, the Polo Grounds was the site that the two greatest moments in baseball occured. It should a been sacred.
Curmudgeon,
I don't believe Dorothy was claiming that Cache Valley or any other place in Utah or any other place in the U.S. is sacred. She merely made a comment on what Mr. Gossett said. I don't belive she is supporting or denying his statement. I really think she simply wants to know of anyone else sho attended one of the classes she mentioned. So back off Satan.
Curmudgeon,
I suggest you reassess your position as to whether or not you are guilty of pontification.
Webster defines pontification as delivery of dogmatic opinions.
Webster also defines dogmatism as a viewpoint or system of ideas based on insufficiently examined premises.
I state my case.
Tetris:
You wrote: So back off Satan.
Ahem. I am neither a Republican nor a New York Yankees fan. Clearly Satan is at least one, more probably both, of those things. Let's me out. [grin]
I use the factual foundations of physics, mathematics, and other sciences to help me evaluate the possible. Dorothy, I am far from one who will not consider the unknown. Most of these paranormalist types have absolutely no background or understanding of the most elementary levels of physics and math that would debunk most of their beliefs. I would have to say that their listeners and followers also lack that key foundation of an understanding of the factual basis of our known universe. Sure there is lots to be discovered by science but this paranormal stuff can be discarded from my attention by the application of my own experience and solid understanding and comfort with the physical world. You can sell any old story to someone lacking a solid understanding and comfort with the facts of our physical world. Some are willing to believe the wackiest of paranormalist nonsense because faith just makes them feel better when pesky details like acceleration, gravity, geology, physical limits of materials, etc. are beyond their comprehension.
I get my facts now from my own experience and experimentation and I have gotten far more fact after schooling than during but the key foundations of math, science, language were indeed acquired in school. I'd prefer that schools stick with that. There is far too much infiltration in our schools of factless speculation which is more suited to churches and paranormalist gatherings. Stuff like intelligent design, prayer, and the government funded D.A.R.E program have no place in institutions of learning.
I have another paranormal idea for you...
A guy named Osama bin Laden organized a group of ne'er do wells to collectively hijack 4 planes and destroy two world class skyscrapers and penetrate the most protected airspace in the world to attack the pentagon.If one believes that malarkey they deserve a despot like George Bush. Now that's a conspiracy theory. A guy in a cave...LOLOLOL
Impeach George Bush SOON!!!
Congress held hearings to do just that on Fri. Pay attention folks and write your representative.
I also attended the classes and worked with Wolfgang at KCGL when it was in Bountiful. However the sacred ground in question was not the Cache Valley -- but the Uinta Basin near Duchesene. He told me it was because the Mountain range was east to west-- and that UFO's would be seen there all of the time and that a Time dimensional Portals existed there. This was long before we heard the tales of the Sherman ranch or what the people at NIDS call SKINWALKER RANCH. Wolfgang presented to me a gold coin that he believed was from another time. I talked with MUFON president Mildred Beasley about the area and she told me only two people knew about the area's strange activity-- Frank Salisbury and Wolfgang Gossett. Gossett taught me everything I know about the Paranormal and that is why I did my show GROUND ZERO in 1995-- it was an homage to Wolfgang's show on KCGL. The classes at east High were fantatsic ..and Wolfgang was generous in taking me out for Dee Burgers whenever we would get the chance. That was back when Super Dee did not mean the Dee Events center.
We are all DB Cooper, at heart.
Post a Comment