Fodder for an end-of-weekend open topic discussion thread
By Tec Jonson
Here are some readable links for a Sunday. I am astonished at the willing militarization of America and the acceptance of military presence in our civilian domain. I was driving by Mt. Ogden Park a couple of weeks back on a weekday afternoon and there was a military exercise going on IN THE PARK!!! I stopped to take some footage and to discuss it with the commandants. It was WSU ROTC, but this is a military exercise or training. ROTC cadets are signed military trainees and their training exercisies are CLEARLY military training...in city parks. They were engaged in, what I would call crowd-control formations carrying dummy weapons (undetectable as dummy) marching methodically across the municipal turf with children at play in the adjacent sandpits. Does this offend anyone else? I invite comments. This is just a small part of the indoctrination of our citizenry to comfort with a military presence in our everyday lives. Stop this now!!!
Commander In Chief???
The single worst expression in American politics
ACLU Actions for Restoring America
The floor is open... O gentle ones.
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39 comments:
The Brits have a way with words...
"You have to pinch yourself -- a Marxist radical who all his life has been mentored by, sat at the feet of, worshiped with, befriended, endorsed the philosophy of, funded and been in turn funded, politically promoted and supported by a nexus comprising black power anti-white racists, Jew-haters, revolutionary Marxists, unrepentant former terrorists and Chicago mobsters, is on the verge of becoming President of the United States.
And apparently it's considered impolite to say so."
-- Melanie Philips
The Spectator ( UK )
October 14, 2008
There are some people who need to dig deep into whatever mind they have and consider carefully what is happening in America.
ROTC students marching around in a public park drilling to become defenders of our way of life is far better than the Hitler youth type kids being used (abused) by the Obama campaign.
There are some on this blog who may well go nuts yelling about such activities. But one Nation under God depends upon strength and National resolve. And strength comes only from the will of the people to defend our Nation from the extreme leftists and socialistic tendencies. Something about "Eternal vigilance".... It is ironic that organizations like the ACLU and the leadership of the Democratic Party in many instances frequently can not seem to "get it". They traditionally go after the messenger in hateful and very personal ways to stifle anyone who disagrees with them and their "Idealogy".
I for one, do not want America to become Switzerland...nor any other European union country. And I will fight to the death to protect it from "all enemies, both foreign AND domestic". You are an enemy of our Country when you provide aid and comfort to the enemies of our Country. Just try to think about it instead of intellectualizing and rationalizing and ranting about how "The true Patriots are the ones who are always trying to tear down American and American values and culture, and economy, and laws, and administration, and ---well you name it."
Constructive criticism is Patriotic. Defamitory criticism, law breaking, domestic bombings, radical anarchy, and supporting such cretans is NOT patriotic - make no mistake about that.
Oh, this is too precious for words. Obama using "Hitler Youth" in order to turn the US into Switzerland!
"What's This" either just had his meds changed. Or needs them changed.
Whoa!! look what I just dredged out of the woodwork.
What's this, said a mouthful. Talk about living in fear. To live in such fear is not living but dying...a very slow and miserable death.
No one has ever threatened America nor could ANYONE threaten America. It is geographically and logistically impossible. Just as we cannot control things in such places like Iraq and Afghasnistan how could a smaller military power even get within a thousand miles of our shores. Who has the carriers, subs, transports and crucially...the desire to try to control the most out of control and dysfunctional society on the planet. What's the benefit to some occupier. To inherit our broke economy? to take control of our dessimated industrial base? to take over our depleted oil reserves...NOT
What's this represents a dinosaur vision if he believed in anything BC. I forgot that fear mongers believe the earth was created something like 5000 years ago.
Ditto Curm
You can find dozens of articles by dozens of different authors promoting everything that is not accurate and certainly not true.
Quit swallowing everything you read.
SO... Curm , Tec J., "back to the cave" are apparently not smart enough to interpret the true meaning of words? This is just too classic!
Libs who take words and descriptions completely out of context in order to attack the writer/speaker and distort the truth. Just as the previous blogger "Whats this" said you would do. Amazing! Predictably disgusting and dishonest of you though.
Curm, ent al, if you had been paying attention you would have seen numerous photo ops as well as other extreme left political ads which use mere children to promote grotesque misinformation about Obama.
You would have noticed kids in blue and white uniforms organized (and being abused) by their "teachers" in both public and private schools. They, being paraded around in photo ops and campaign commercials for this airhead and empty suit garbage the Dems have promoted for Pres. But that is apparently OK by you? Some character and integrity you and friends have shown?
Classic Democratic far left foolishness and demagoguery. Can you "Nieanderthals" never get it? And the pseudo intellectualism of the elitist left, just does not fit your blog inputs, which are frankly a major bore.
If you ever get your head out of your brown shirt ideology, as doubtful as that is, you would see the situation as it truly is for a change. The socialistic class warfare divide and conquer demagoguery never seems to change. Divide the Country to destroy its value structures and then legislate liberal socialistic policies followed by the Swiss, German, French, English, Belgians, Dutch, Danes, etc.
Now there's a great example...50 to 75% tax rates, people dying (or coming to America to get decent treatment) for want of governmental controlled health care, the list is obvious to anyone who has lived and traveled abroad. Where have you ttwo or three been? Sitting around trying to convince yourselves that you are intelligent, worldly and wise? Doubtful either of you have ever lived outside Utah or Lousiana, based upon your oblivious and clueless rants.
Play your little mind games of intellectual incest but please flush afterwards. Tec Johnson is a coward who condemns both his Country and those who have died to defend her.
"You bet'ya", I'm a dynasaur, just like "Whats this".
Just as people who can not defend their positions, without attacking the messenger personally, like you Tec Johnson and Curm, are no friends of the US. And you do yourselves no great service, but discredit youselves in the process.
FOAD
off topic for a second
just drove back home in the rain from a lunch today at karen cafe and couldnt help but notice the citys lack of a leaf removal program which we used to have before godfrey did away with it is causing major flooding though out the city. drains on all the streets from washington to mt ogden park are stopped up and personally witnessed at least one yard btw a godfrey supporter starting to flood.
even though we havent had any major development on the east side of the city that would have contibuted to the problem per say our flooding is getting much worse due to where or fearless leader has choosen to cut the budget. i.e. the public works depart. from spring clean up to snow removal to street cleaners.
his actions are starting to have a quality of life altering effect on the residents of ogden.
city council should start asking for budget cuts in bd activities to at least insure a minimum level of services for the residents.
Disgusted:
Just a couple of weeks ago, I saw city crew working through my neighborhood, removing leafs from drains and gutter openings at street crossings.
Tec's original post seems to have been lost amid images of Obama Hitler Youth engaged in turning the US into Switzerland. Let me get back to Tec's question: am I bothered by a WSU ROTC class using Mt. Ogden Park for training?
Answer: not at all. The parks are there for all. WSU golf team has, I think used the golf course. I know WSU and HS cross country teams use the park. Nothing whatsoever wrong with a ROTC group using it, provided it meets the same requirements as anyone else wanting to use the same park area. [Appropriate permits if necessary, etc.] No reason I can see why ROTC should be discriminated against by being denied use of the park that is there for everyone's use.
That same field might be used tomorrow, or right after the ROTC group, for a men's drum circle. Or a peace rally. Or a church's picnic and sack race for kids. Or a protest meeting. Or just kids throwing frizbees to dogs. Or a soccer game.
The fact that our parks can be, and are, used by all those groups and people, without discrimination --- ROTC class, peace marchers, dogs and frizbees --- cheek by jowl with no problems is one sign of our general societal health, and not any kind of social pathology.
The park is there for all. All includes ROTC groups. The same principle is what informed the courts when they said Ogden could have a 10 commandments monument in its downtown park if it wanted, but then it could not deny any other religious group the right to erect a monument in the park to its own religious principles on the same terms. It's the same principle the courts apply when they tell schools that if they permit citizen groups to use schools after hours [Kiwanis, or Boy Scouts or East Side Ladies Tatting Society] they cannot then deny a prayer group or bible study group the same privilege.
So, no, Tec. ROTC training at Mt. Ogden Park within sight of golfers on one side, a playground with kids on the other, tennis players across the meadow, and picnic-ers and dog walkers here and there doesn't bother me at all. That kind of broad freedom to use the parks is kind of what we are about. Or should be.
"Does this (military training) offend anyone else? I invite comments. This is just a small part of the indoctrination of our citizenry to comfort with a military presence in our everyday lives. Stop this now!!!" Tec Jonson
This was clearly the author's (Tec Jonson's) opinion about our military and his near total lack of tolerance for it. His previous comments prove his cowardice and disdain for those he wishes he had to guts to have been. Some call it penis envy.
"What's this" merely countered this boring and inane argument and opinion with that of his own opinions, plus a little "World View" from the UK.
As for me and mine we support our Country and our military and fervently oppose any and all inferences and opinions stated against her...as this "Tec Jonson" person did.
You, plus Johnson and the "caveman" where the pejorative name callers first and deserved the come-up-ins given you by "Pejorative". I would not mess with him/her.
Jesus.
Curm,
You may have thought differently if you had happened by and seen a couple of groups of apparently armed soldiers, rifles drawn and ready, marching across the soccer field. My experience in ROTC gunplay was of the drill team type and never ventured into urban warfare tactical training. It maintain that training of this sort with guns drawn is absolutely inappropriate for our city parks. This is military training whether it is under the umbrella of WSU or otherwise.
Typically those who disagree with me resort to socialist baiting or commie baiting or whatever. Don't forget my disdain for my country. Christ, you guys are a bore. Our founders would have none of this nonsense as they had a healthy respect for a very limited government and military. Again it all boils down to who is the most fearful American(you guys) and those who you think have no national pride because we choose to not live in fear of the unknown and the fictional. I challenge any of you chest beaters to describe one incident of our nation being threatened by anyone other than your own network of fear and constitutional dismantlers.
Saved fuel, kept them closer to campus, good plan by me. Watch out Tec those F-16's from Hill are armed with napalm and cluster bombs now.
Why is it we always describe other countries as military juntas, dictatorships, police states, or their leaders as strongmen, as though George Bush didn't try maniacly to attain just such status. These military feathered responders sound as though they would prefer a country of military hotheads instead of a civil and democratic society.
Judging by the responses we indeed have crested the point of comfort with military presence in our parks and streets. Welcome to the new world order. Ask the soldier on the corner if it's ok to go to the store for some paper napkins after 9pm.
One ROTC excercise in a park, the country's gone over the abyss and we're the ones that have lost our minds?
Tec:
Sorry, Tec. We disagree on this. Folks have no particular right not to be offended by a group using the public parks, doing what the law permits. [I'm not talking streakers here.] I can think of all kind of organized activities in parks I would find offensive... and Eagle Forum rally for example... but that is no reason to deny the EF the right to use the parks on the same basis as other groups. That applies to ROTC groups too.
tec, the scubula, Jonson:
"I challenge any of you chest beaters to describe one incident of our nation being threatened by anyone other than your own network of fear and constitutional dismantlers.."
How about the 1500 who died at Pearl Harbor? Or the 3000 who died on 9/11? Or the 900 in the Marine barracks in Lebanon? Let's see... Japan and the Axis powers, AlQuida, Hamas... And then there was Timothy McVey, a domestic nut job, who killed about 350 innocent people in the Oklahoma City bombing. How about screaming mobs of crazed middle Easterners shouting "Death to America!" How about the foiled, so far, attempts by any number of radical Islamic groups to kill you and all your family?
I'd call all these "threats" to our Country, both abroad and domestic.
But then I don't know as much as apparently you do. You obviously have some strange innoculation against reality which makes you so wise. Get a grip on reality dude!
Man-o-man! Tec Jonson is sure right about one thing. And that is people ARE afraid.
They are afraid our Country will become governed by enichs and peacenik far left liberals without a clue about history, government and the realities of international politics.
Hell, I am scared to death of an America under Obama, Pelosi, and Reid.
Wonder if folks would approve of the uniformed school kids marching for Obama? Been to Barnes and Noble lately? Read the brainwashing propaganda in the form of a Kid's book about Barack Obama? I am very much afraid Americans have lost their minds, just as the Germans did when a young articulate speech maker mezmerized the Germans in the 1930's.
I am living in fear alright! Fear of what self agandizing and rationalizing folks just might do to our Country in two days. Tec, your idealogy combined with your total ignorance (or stupidity whichever the case) scare me far more than any guns, bombs or bullets. And you do far more harm and damage.
Anyone want to go in on a Hotel in Belise?
I would like to say that I agree with the essence of Tec's article, that is that the President is NOT the commander in chief of the country, but rather, of the military. Those who do not understand that distinction, good people as they may be, do not understand what this country is about and what freedom and liberty really are about.
Taking it another step, I cringe when people refer to the President as the Leader of the Free World or even as the Leader of My Country. He is neither. He is the administrative head of our Federal Government, nothing more.
Similarly, our Federal Debt is not our National Debt, but the debt of our Federal Government. There is a big difference.
As far as Tec's ACLU recommendations, half are good and half are not.
All in all, good fodder for discussion. I feel a kinship for many of the flag wavers posting here, and I wonder how I can politely help them understand they are wrong, and are actually trampling on what our founding fathers had in mind for this unique nation of ours.
We need to understand there is a difference between "Nationalism", and being an "American". Many people around the world support their country and their government. But we need to do more. We need to uphold and safeguard freedom, a far more rare and precious treasure, and a far more difficult one to keep.
Found a WWI ration booklet today... First casualty of war are some personal freedoms. Always been and completely necessarily so.
And we ARE at war today. Congress (our representatives and senators) declared it so.
Agree with "Danny" on his tip toe through the tulips regarding the ACLU food for thought half good half bad. The National debt being our Federal debt and any GI fully understands the "Commander in Chief" applies only to the military, in time of war only incidentally. Titles such as Leader of the Free World and other exaggerations are constructs of the populist media and not of the executive office.
And we have no disagreement about protecting freedoms and liberty. But Tec goes far too far to the left with his opinions. And you Danny have mistaken defense of what our Country is or should be for overly Nationalistic or militarism.
You (Danny) are smart enough to understand the differences, as are all "flag waivers", including those who posted in support of America and the military on this blog. So take heart. Despite what Tec thinks, the military are not "jack booted thugs" and brain dead high school drop outs. The military actually has the highest education level of any corporation or institution in the US. Been so since the all volunteer force which began in 1970 (get it Tec?).
Only the carpet bagger, Orin Hatch, and Utards believe, for example, the American flag should be protected. Soldiers understand it is only a symbol and cherished object which represents a far more important freedom...of expression. And they die all too often defending that right and freedom.
I am curious on how this great divide happened to our country. The words and accusations being hurled at each other is shameful.
I wonder if we will ever view ourselfs as "united" again.
Wow,
In my case I can say my disagreements spring not from disrespect of the opinions of others, but of respect for others.
If I didn't think highly of the people whom I sometimes debate, I wouldn't take the time.
I for one, accept that I may be wrong. I too, debate to learn.
flag waiver,
I do not recall saying that the people serving in the military are jack-booted thugs nor do I feel anything like that. I am as strong a flag waver as you but I'll keep my patriotism to myself and not try to belittle the next guys commitment. My intent with the post is that we are gradually becoming comfortable with a stronger military presence both at home and abroad and if you haven't noticed, we can't afford it. The law and order freaks and the globalists have bankrupted our treasury in pursuit of the more extreme flag waver goals like "What's this" In the long run it will be the militarists and the fear mongers like so many of the above who undermine our fine country by insisting on more government and more protection for their fears.
Danny, I'll thank you for moderating the tone some and finding something of value in the posts. It's all in the language and our language has grown mnore bullish and militaristic since 9-11. Mission Accomplished for the New World Orderists. They must maintain an enemy to continue the federal empowerment of their schemes. You so called Republicans or flag wavers or patriots have been played. BTW I don't remember saying anything about voting for Obama.
Curm, I'd like to get together and show you the video from the park. As much as you have said I will be surprised if you do not find it a bit unsettling to see camo suited men with rifles fixed marching across the soccer field. If you were having a little picnic with your kids or your wife and that was the scene, wouldn't you feel that you came to park for a little peaceful imagery. What if my friends and I decided to get out some dummy rifles and suit up in camo and run war games? Would I have the right? How long to some authority arrives or SWAT team more likely. Yet I would have as much right to conduct war games in the park as the ROTC. If you can quote me a law that would prohibit me from doing exactly as the ROTC then I am all ears. And if you think I could get away with said exercise without getting seriously strong-armed you have a very naive view of your own police state. hence my point. A city park is no place for weapons out exercise. If ROTC wants to jog or tree climb or march at Mt O, just fine. Leave the weaponry at home.
i want to pass on my condolences to Dorothy Littrell for her lost. in the paper today it mentioned in the obs that her husband passed away last week on the 26th of oct.
my heart goes out to you and your family for your loss.
"I challenge any of you chest beaters to describe one incident of our nation being threatened by anyone other than your own network of fear and constitutional dismantlers.." Tec Jonson
"How about the 1500 who died at Pearl Harbor? Or the 3000 who died on 9/11? Or the 900 in the Marine barracks in Lebanon? Let's see... Japan and the Axis powers, AlQuida, Hamas... And then there was Timothy McVey, a domestic nut job, who killed about 350 innocent people in the Oklahoma City bombing. How about screaming mobs of crazed middle Easterners shouting "Death to America!" How about the foiled, so far, attempts by any number of radical Islamic groups to kill you and all your family?
I'd call all these "threats" to our Country, both abroad and domestic." YGBSM!
So Tec Jonson, what about it? Don't let the cat get your fingers... Sounds like you lost the debate to us. (Laughing)
He frequently lets his alligator mouth overload his humming bird ass.
He means well just doesn't get it often.
Disgusted:
Thanks for the heads up on the obit notice. I had not noticed it, and my condolences as well to Ms. Littrell.
All us "flag waivers" would like to also pass along our condolences to Dorothy Littrell for the recent loss of her husband.
We all share your loss in our own hearts and pray that God's grace will comfort and console you in your grief. You have many friends and are beloved.
Those events except Pearl Harbor were terrorist attacks designed to produce terror/fear in the hearts of weaker men. I'd say they accomplished their goal. Stronger men will keep our cool and maintain fortitude. Those terrorist events were not a precursor to an attack on our shopres nor part of a strategy to take occupy. So why should we act as though we have destroyers off Malibu. I'd say someone is freaking out and it ain't me.
Amazing! Simply amazing! Bin Laden declared war on America back in 1994 or so. 9/11 was only a terriorist attack designed to scare us and strike fear into us "weaker men". While the brave one Tec Jonson stands above it all.
Amazing...simply amazing!
Tec, scubula, Jonson. Scubula is ancient greek. Translated it means "dog shit" or "chicken shit". You and your ilk are all about intellectualization and rationalization. Thank God you are in the minority and we do not have to depend on people like you to defend us.
Fascinated - I do hope that you or perhaps one of your children has signed up to go defend us.
Pretty easy to talk all this when you're safely inside your $250,000 home.
"intellectualization and rationalization"
Let's see, I'm having a hard time finding the negative in intellect and rational. Seems the lower order are deeply offended and fearful of intellect and rationale. I believe our country and most gods including christian encourage man to develop his intellect and act rational.
I think it was Dorothy's long ago ex-husband that died. A sad note in any event as he was the father of her children.
Dorothy has been "with" her boy friend Jim for quite awhile now. He is a very fine man with health issues of his own, which hopefully he is staying on top of.
Good Lord! There are some really good and well meaning yet ignorant people on this blog! Let try to explain English to you "morning quarterback". Like Danny, many of us debate to learn so try learn something...
Rationalization:
1. To ascribe (one's acts, opinions, etc.) to causes that superficially seem reasonable and valid but that actually are unrelated to the true, possibly unconscious and often less creditable or agreeable causes.
Intellectualization:
2. The act or process of intellectualizing.
An unconscious means of protecting oneself from the emotional stress and anxiety associated with confronting painful personal fears or problems by excessive reasoning.
Hope this makes sense to you (all). Both rationalization and intellectualization are psychological defense mechanisms and as such are mental crutches, when logic and facts seem overwhelming or emotional concerns interfere with your thinkingor writing/blogging clearly.
Tec Jonson was clearly using both defense mechanisms and being offensive by going too far over the line. Curm flirted with joining in the Tec Jonson chorus, but was backed off by his superior intellect and was able to rationalize successfully to yen and yang of both sides of the debate. Those who responded to Tec's charges were merely using their emotional side combined with their life experiences to throw cold water all over the perceived far left views so prevalent at this particular time on the eve of a contentious election at virtually every level.
Hope this helps all of you who do not seem to understand what you are reading and saying.
This is for Tec and the rest of you US constitutional law enthusiasts.
I noticed, Tec, you included a hot link on the bottom of your original post:
ACLU Actions for Restoring America
http://www.aclu.org/transition/
Since most of us who read this blog live in Utah, info on ACLU Utah seems in order. I have recently had reason, stated below, to contact the ACLU Utah, in SLC. All of you will be saddened to know that there is only one lawyer representing all ACLU issues in ALL of Utah. Her name is Marina Lowe. She works out of the ACLU SLC office. That is the only ACLU office in all of Utah.
I am in the process of fighting a bogus citation of Criminal Trespass given to me personally by VAL SHUPE, Chief of Police, South Ogden City. I have noticed that although this blog is called Weber County Forum, most of you do not consider South Ogden City to be worth mentioning. However, since this is a true & local story of abuse my civil liberties in Weber County, I thought it might be of interest to the WCF readership.
My citation for Criminal Trespass (76.6.206), given to me on 10.17.2008 in the South Ogden Dog Park, was ordered by Val Shupe, because I chose to go into a public park in South Ogden. From 10.6.2007-6.9.2008, I helped legally modify this park from a crime infested, abandoned park, into a legally designated, totally fenced, off leash Dog Park.
Info on this first greater Ogden/ Weber County area Dog Park can be found on my web site:
South Ogden Dog Park
http://www.flickr.com/photos/glasmann/
Because the battle to get SOC to allow this abandoned park in the SOC park system to be turned into a fenced dog park was not a no-brainer, Mayor George Garwood selected me to levitate his personal revenge on. Seeking to pimp my ride, he used his day job, work computer @ the SOC Utah DMV office, to see if I had violations on my Utah Driver's License. Since I had none, he then proceeded to check out my husband's Utah Driver's license. BINGO!!! Lots to play with.
Garwood then proceeded to manipulate my husband's Utah Driver's license repeatedly, from 9.2007 - 12.31.2007. When I had this explained to me by a friend in mid-May 2008, I choose to take no retaliation. Other than sharing this information with people involved with the South Ogden Dog Park.
By Sept 2008, Garwood managed to get Val Shupe into the act. Of abusing my civil liberties. Shupe ordered 2 of his police officers to give me a verbal warning at my home. That if I went back into the South Ogden Dog Park, I would receive a written citation for Criminal Trespass.
Having been an avid reader of WCF since 4.2007, I know that most of you are very interested in US Constitutional Law. I therefore assume you all know that it is an abuse of the Criminal Trespass(76.6.206) law to give a Criminal Trespass Citation to anyone who goes into a public park and obeys the rules of that park. Since I helped write the rules of this DOG PARK, I obey all the rules all the time. More than most people who use this park do.
After 2 weeks of consulting with over 5 lawyers, in Ogden & SLC, I now am only trying to find a criminal lawyer to represent me to SOC Attorney Ken Bradwhaw, to dismiss this bogus charge.
Sounds simple? For a base charge of $2,000.00, any number of criminal lawyers are willing to represent me. Is there a Criminal Defense Fund for the leader of the first greater Ogden/Weber area DOG PARK? Not that I know of.
Are most of you laughing YET?
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